Ford Auditorium Architect Question

[Farnsworth]

Ford Auditorium Architect Question

In "The Buildings of Detroit" Ferry mentions that two architectural firms were commissioned for Ford Auditorium. Crane, Kiehler and Kellogg; and O'Dell, Hewlett and Luckenback. The latter is the firm that is more commonly mentioned. I am having a difficult time finding any information on Crane, Kiehler and Kellogg, as a firm. I'm aware of C.H. Crane's work, so I'm assuming that his firm was involved in the interior theatre construction. Does anyone have any information, or can point me in the right direction to obtain said information? A Google search didn't prove to be helpful.

Also -- another discrepancy -- in the book, "Detroit: A Motor City History" by David Poremba, the author states that that, "a 2.5 million gift was given to the city for the construction of the Henry and Clara Ford Auditorium." I've always heard it referred to as the Edsel and Eleanor Ford Auditorium. Is this author error?

[DC48080]

Ford Auditorium Architect Question

In "The Buildings of Detroit" Ferry mentions that two architectural firms were commissioned for Ford Auditorium. Crane, Kiehler and Kellogg; and O'Dell, Hewlett and Luckenback. The latter is the firm that is more commonly mentioned. I am having a difficult time finding any information on Crane, Kiehler and Kellogg, as a firm. I'm aware of C.H. Crane's work, so I'm assuming that his firm was involved in the interior theatre construction. Does anyone have any information, or can point me in the right direction to obtain said information? A Google search didn't prove to be helpful.

Also -- another discrepancy -- in the book, "Detroit: A Motor City History" by David Poremba, the author states that that, "a 2.5 million gift was given to the city for the construction of the Henry and Clara Ford Auditorium." I've always heard it referred to as the Edsel and Eleanor Ford Auditorium. Is this author error?

I could be mistaken, but I think it is The Henry and Edsel Ford Auditorium. Funding was provided by the Ford family and the local Ford dealer association.

[detroitbob]

After C. Howard Crane left the U.S. for England before WW2, the firm continued on as Crane, Kiehler and Kellogg. Dixon Kellogg was actually the last partner to actually work with CHC. The offices were located in the old Robert Fur Building on Madison. This building sat where stage addition of the Opera House was built. Kellogg lived up on Boston Blvd. and was a delightful gentleman. We spent a few hours discussing Orchestra Hall and he verified that they were drawing plans and delivering them to the work site as soon as they were copied...it was that tight of a project. He also told me to go on the stage of Orchestra Hall and look house right and left and call him back and tell him what was wrong with the building. Lo and behold after a couple of us scanned the hall, even resorting to binoculars, we found it. The Balcony is off center by about 3 inches. If you look at where the balcony joins the side wall on the north side, it cuts into a decorative column. It was his fault, and he never forgot it...this was 55 years later!

As for Ford Auditorium, CKK got pulled in late as the scheme developed from a civic auditorium to a symphony hall. As Kellogg told me, we did the best we could with the interior but the money was limited, the walls were up and the ceilings were not right and the lack of plaster on the side walls doomed the place to failure, acoustically. He regretted the name of the firm being placed on the corner stone as he said, Orchestra Hall it ain't. He helped out on the Save Orchestra Hall project, donating the drawings, etc.

If I remember correctly he died in the late 70's and the firm continued for a few years with his old assistant taking over. I think the assistant is now dead the firm went out of business in the 1990's. I'll do some research on dates.

Ford Auditorium was funded by the family and the Dealer Association and was originally envisioned as a civic auditorium. Mrs. Edsel Ford orchestrated the change to a symphony hall. She also funded most of the various renovations to improve the sound...none of which were successful.

I hope the organ can be rescued, if it is still intact. It never spoke with its full potential in that room.

[Krawlspace]

A copy of the blueprints are languishing in an old file cabinet in a maintenance area below Hart Plaza surrounded by debris and leaky pipes. I still regret not snatching them up when I had the chance...

[detroitbob]

The last partner was George Wiltsie,[[sp) I believe. He took the firm over after the death of Kellogg. The office moved to the Industrial Bldg at Washington Blvd and Grand River and finally relocated to Traverse City area. Some of the later work was for small theatre chains in the Lansing area, doing two and three shopping center auditoriums. I believe he died in the late 90's...will search for more info.

[Gistok]

Thanks for the history detroitbob... ironically C. Howard Crane died in 1952, 3 years before Ford Auditorium was built.... he'd be turning over in his grave [[in London) if he had ever heard the poor acoustics that Ford Auditorium had. This is the first time I have heard the reason why.... THANKS!!

As for the organ... the Aeolian Skinner... I believe the 56packman mentioned that it had to have some improvements done to it to make up for the auditorium's poor acoustics.

Also I find it interesting [[but not surprising) that Orchestra Hall has a design flaw. Russian born conductor Ossip Grabrilowitsch [[son-in-law of Samuel Clemens)would only take on being the conductor of the DSO if a new home were built within a very short time frame. Orchestra Hall was built in the astonishing time of only 4 months in 1919.

C. Howard Crane was chosen as architect, and quickly used the design of the 1917 built Madison Theatre as the prototype for the 1919 Orchestra Hall. With such a tight schedule, it's no wonder that a design flaw happened... but the marvelous acoustics more than make up for it.

[Gistok]

Detroitbob... weren't C. Howard Cranes architectural offices located [[1927-30) in the [[Rapp & Rapp designed) Michigan Building before they moved to the Roberts Fur Building?

[Patrick]

Crane's desk and tools are at the Detroit Hist. Museum. Neat to see..

[Farnsworth]

Thank you everyone for your information! I knew I came to the right place.

Does anybody have an idea where Ford Auditorium falls in terms of size and in relation to other Detroit theatres?

[Gistok]

Thank you everyone for your information! I knew I came to the right place.

Does anybody have an idea where Ford Auditorium falls in terms of size and in relation to other Detroit theatres?

Yeppers....

Fox 5,174 seats
Masonic 4,404 seats
Capitol [[Opera House) 3,384 seats [[today reconfigured to 2,765 seats w/ large orchestra pit)
State/Fillmore 2,961 seats [[today only 2,200 seats with dance floor)
Ford Auditorium 2,830 seats
Orchestra Hall 2,286 seats
Fisher 2,089 seats [[although the old Fisher had 2,975 seats before reducing the theatre's size in 1961)

[detroitbob]

The prototype for Orchestra Hall was actually the Macomb Theatre, [[now the Emerald) save the main balcony. Kellogg said that it was the chosen as the DSO management wanted the horseshoe dress circle and box seats arrangement that they had already used for the Macomb. They adapted to 26 private boxes, the carriage entrance, and restrooms and smoking room on that level. As they were constricted by the site of Westminster Church [[attended by Horace Dodge--thus it was easy to purchase) they had no space for a decent lobby. The basement of OH at the Woodward end is actually the foundations of the old church.

As for Ford Aud organ, I knew there was a miking arrangement at one point during the Dorati years, as they could not move the stage division due to the final shell arrangement. I never heard any major tonal alterations were made. Actually, when Dorati attempted staged operas at one point the singers on stage had to be miked...the orchestra playing from the pit sounded amazing. After Mrs. Edsel Ford paid for the last redo of the auditorium and it failed, Dorati said it should be blown up one night---as it would be the only way they would ever escape. Of course Orchestra Hall was considered hopeless by the patron base and management. After the doner base shifted, suddenly Orchestra Hall became the only viable alternative. The DSO did try out the Michigan Theatre on Bagley in the late 1960's with no audience, just management and musicians and acoustical tech's and found it adaptable and considered doing a deal akin to Heinz Hall in Pittsburgh...flatten the dome, etc. but once the Grosse Pointe base and the Fords found out they were somewhat serious the crap hit the fan and that was that. the UA was used to record but was never considered as a room to move to.

Crane's office on Park Ave lasted until the mid 20's, so the Michigan Bldg makes sense. If you go to the Main Library Detroit or UM in AA, look through copies of Architectural Forum for 1925. There is a feature on the firm and it includes photographs of the Park Ave. office location. I believe it is indexed in the Periodical Index from that period, although the index volumes are probably reference material also and have to be requested.

Bob

[Gistok]

Thanks Bob... Theatre Historical Society mentioned the Madison, not the Macomb.


Oh... and Heinz Hall was quite a remodeling on the old Loew's Penn Theatre in Pittsburgh. Much of the ornate plaster [[Rapp & Rapp architects) was removed to create a much tamer performace space.

Rapp & Rapp theatres required more work to make them usable for symphonic purposes than those that C. Howard Crane designed. Your comments about the possible use of the Michigan reminded me of that. Rapp & Rapp designs used for symphonic performances in Omaha, St. Louis and Youngstown bear that out.

[detroitbob]

There are certainly some elements of the Madison in OH, but I transposed the theatre references, OH was the prototype for a smaller theatre, the Macomb...it was built shortly after OH...sorry for the confusion.

[Krawlspace]

Along the lines of Crane and the Macomb, I found it interesting that his offices were located in the Huron Building when the Macomb was drawn up in 1921. I tried in vain for over a year trying to track down the Huron, all to no avail. As luck would have it I stumbled on a photo of it in a collection of Manning Brothers images taken for the Union Trust company during construction of the Union Trust Building, now Guardian. The Huron was demolished for the construction of the Union Trust ca. 1925 or 1926. I do not know how long Crane had offices there, as there was no visible signage in the photo. He may well have moved on to the Michigan by then.

I had always thought that the Madison was the template for the Macomb as the Madison was completed in 1920, and construction of the Macomb began that same year. The Macomb Theatre Company investors fired their original architect and brought in Crane at the last minute. Given the similar design of both auditoriums and the overall footprint, I had guessed that he brought the Madison's plans to the Macomb people and said he could "make it fit" in the time frame they had wanted as construction had already been delayed a year and a half. Crane convinced the investors to add a stage and dressing rooms, where the original design called for a screen only with a very small lecture stage. The additional cost of this ultimately doomed the Macomb Theatre Comapny, and they declared bankruptcy in 1929. Ironically, were it not for Crane talking them into adding a full stage for live performances, the theatre surely would have been demolished by now, as the ability to have live acts has carried it through many years and many incarnations.

One interesting design of the Macomb was that in addition to the standard organ pipe lofts on each side of the proscenium, another group of pipes was included under the balcony riser on house left. Slots were formed in the concrete seating tiers to allow the sound to carry through. So in effect you had a surround sound system in 1921.

[DC48080]

Where was the Macomb Theatre located? Is it still standing?

[Krawlspace]

The Macomb is now called the Emerald and is located at 31 N. Walnut in Mt. Clemens. Currently they have a nightclub on Fridays and Saturdays as well as the occasional local band concert.

[kathy2trips]

Wow! That was great! I [[almost) need a cigarette!

My dad was one of the brick/block masons on scaffolds and on their knees who worked in building it back then. He passed away in 2005. Oh yeah.....I saw Aaron Copland here with the DSO once when I was a kid. Awesome!

Thanks again, you guys rock.

[Gistok]

Krawlspace... the Madison opened in March 1917 [[even the Emerald Theatre website confirms that)... it was the first of the Grand Circus Park movie palaces with the Adams coming online [[initially as a legitimate theatre) in the fall of 1917.

That would make the timeline... Madison 1917... Orchestra Hall 1919... Macomb 1921.

[Gistok]

Krawlspace... the Union Trust [[Guardian) Building opened in 1929. So the Huron Building may have been demolished as late as 1927. Since the Michigan Building/Theatre opened in August of 1926... this gives the timeline for Crane's office move a narrow circa late 1926 moving date.

Crane's most creative output would likely have been while his offices were at the Michigan Building. He designed his most opulent theatre's for the movie studio chains [[Fox and United Artists). He designed 3 theatres for each studio... they opened between 1927 and 1929.

I had always thought that perhaps Crane moved to the Michigan Building so that he could study one of the great masterpieces of one of his main movie palace architect rivals... namely Rapp & Rapp of Chicago.. designers of the Michigan Theatre/Building. But it may have been more a move of convenience... since the closing of the Huron Building coincided with the opening of the Michigan Building.

In the past I've asked current Michigan Building owner Anthony Pieroni if he knew the whereabouts [[which floor) of where Crane's offices were located in the 13 story Michigan Building. He replied that he had no historical tenant records that went back to the 1920s.

Dr. David DiChiera [[Michigan Opera Theatre's General Director)... his daughter Lisa wrote a Doctorial Dissertation on C. Howard Crane several years ago. I'd love to get a copy of that document.

[kathy2trips]

)... his daughter Lisa wrote a Doctorial Dissertation on C. Howard Crane several years ago. I'd love to get a copy of that document.

Here y'go! http://www.archive.org/details/theaterdesignsof00dich\

[DC48080]

Here y'go! http://www.archive.org/details/theaterdesignsof00dich\

Thanks for sharing that Kathy, but the link leads to an error page. Could you check on it again please?

[Stosh]

http://www.archive.org/details/theaterdesignsof00dich

[DC48080]

http://www.archive.org/details/theaterdesignsof00dich

Thanks Stosh!

[Gistok]

Wow, thanks for the link folks. Just got done reading it... a few comments....

It mentions the Huron Building as Crane's office... but doesn't mention the Michigan Building. It states that Crane moved his offices to the Detroit Fox Building in 1929 [[a move replicated 70 years later when Smith Hinchman Grylls [[SmithGroup) moved to their most opulent commission... the Guardian Building).

So there is a 2 year gap between 1927 [[when the Huron Building came down for the Union Trust [[Guardian) Building) and 1929... that is not discussed in this paper. That would narrow down the time in the Michigan Building to 1927-29.

Also of interest is the [[never built) Philadelphia Fox... I wasn't aware of that one. One can only image what a 6,300 seat opulent movie palace built by Crane would have looked like.

Also, it mentions that Crane moved to London in 1932... not in 1930 as mentioned in several other references.

[56packman]

Detroitbob--the Ford Auditorium Aoelian-Skinner was a misrable failure as installed, the recording of the Saint-Saens #3 "organ symphony with Dupre/Paray was a bit of audio achemy, the Mercury engineers miked the organ up close, and it sounded on that record as it never did in person. The organ just did not make it into the room. Steve Bodman installed and regulated the Ford A-S, tuned it before use and dealt with the problems of the acoustics for years, including the addition of the portable "garbage scow" division. Steve worked with the factory, they completely revoiced entire ranks, and took back some and made new sets that were just plain louder, to fight the sound out of the chambers and into the room.