Detroit/Wayne County as a City/County consolidation

[Supersport]

My wife and I just returned from a trip to the Smoky Mountains, Gatlinburg, TN to be exact. Every time I go on a trip I try to take in what a city has to offer, why people visit, and what Detroit could do to help improve it's city. My thoughts led me to digging up some statistics, and something I ran across in the past came to light, as well as many other things that caught my eye. First, I'm gonna throw some rankings out there.

Population rankings along with area in square miles

#1 New York, NY - 470
#2 LA, CA -500
#3 Chicago, IL - 234
#4 Houston, TX - 601
#5 Philadelphia, PA - 135
#6 Phoenix, AZ - 517
#7 San Antonio, TX - 517
#8 San Diego, CA - 412
#9 Dallas, TX - 385
#10 San Jose, CA - 461
#11 Detroit, MI - 143
#12 Indy, IN - 361

Rankings of the top 12 cities by population density

#1 New York, NY
#2 Philadelphia, PA
#3 Chicago, IL
#4 LA, CA
#5 Detroit, MI
#6 Houston, TX
#7 San Antonio, TX
#8 Phoenix, AZ
#9 San Diego, CA
#10 Dallas, TX
#11 San Jose, CA
#12 Indy, IN

What I find most interesting is the ranking by population density. Perhaps one of the greatest excuses as to why Detroit doesn't have businesses or mass transit always seems to relate to the city's population density, and yet when compared to the other top dozen US cities by population, Detroit ranks #5. So while Detroit may have fallen from the #3 or #4 spot in population during it's heyday, it still holds it's own in regards to density. Back in 1950, Detroit's density would have been nearly 14,000, placing it right there with Philly in the #2 spot today. By today's standards, even if Detroit were to drop to 800,000 people this census, the density would still be around 5,600, still in the #5 spot by a healthy margin.

Moving on, another distinct disadvantage that Detroit faces today is that the growing cities have much larger borders. Some nearly 4x the size of Detroit, such as Houston, which covers 601 square miles. These much larger cities aren't nearly as effected by population shifts as Detroit. Let's face it, in a 600 square mile city, if somebody works in the downtown area, how far outlying are they really willing to commute?

All this brings me to my thread topic, city-county consolidation. If Detroit was to encompass all of Wayne County, the population would rise to around 2.0 million people, placing Detroit in the #6 spot in terms of numbers, #1 in terms of size at 672 sq/mi, though population density would drop us down to the #10 spot. Yet all the federal dollars are based on the number of people, not the density of a city. Services, such as fire/police/government would all be combined, thus saving the region money. Damn near all of metro Detroit, aside from Wyandotte, already on on the Detroit Water system. A consolidation would level out the costs, eliminating the constant battle/complaints of charges for water.

Is this concept too far out there? Indianapolis, IN, Kansas City, MO, Nashville, TN, Louisville, KY, and Lexington,KY all operate as cities encompassing an entire county. A regional tax, one lower than the typical Detroiter or city worker pay could be put into effect. You can see, Detroit has the deck stacked against us. At our peak, we were one of the most dense cities in the country, seemingly busting at the seams, nearly on par with New York's density today. It would seem that we only had one way to go, and that was down.

When it comes to City/County consolidation, Detroit/Wayne County is probably one of the last places on earth I can see it happening. There remains too much "Us vs Them" regarding city and suburb. So, with a distinct disadvantage, and lacking warm weather, Detroit needs to look at other options, what tools do we have to work with? Detroit, she's one unique animal in so many ways, some good, some dreadful. Since I'm in a glass half full mood, let's focus on the good ones.

Detroit has many unique features that no other city has to the same degree. We have 3 major sporting events, all walking distance from one another. With a little luck, in the very near future, that could grow to 4. I can't think of any other city with all 4 professional teams walking distance to one another, let alone 3. We have 3 permanent casinos, also all walking distance from one another. For the trifecta of entertainment, we have one of the largest theatre districts in the country, said to be second only to Broadway in New York when it comes to seating. Detroit Institute of Arts ranks amongst the top art collections there is. We have Belle Isle, which at 982 acres, is much larger that even New York's Central Park at 843 acres. We have an international riverwalk for the first time in the city's history, with a port authority accepting cruise liners set to open this year. Light rail is set to break ground this fall, hopefully the first step in a master plan to make mass transit a reality.

We have all this, and yet we struggle. Our schools are collapsing, as are the homes. Yet on paper, by the numbers, we're not nearly as dead as the nation chooses to label us. So my question is, where to we go from here? Is a city/county consolidation nothing more than a dream? Would it help, or simply make us a sprawling/unmanagible city? Should our focus be on Philly, a city nearly the same size, yet with the 2 million people that Detroit once had? With arguably much harsher winters than us, is it's east coast location it's saving grace? Chicago at nearly 100 more sq/mi in size also maintains a healthy population and living environment, should our focus be on what they have done?

Hopefully this gets the gears moving and leads to a great thread, as sometimes...even though the answers seem so obvious, I still have to scratch my head while patroling the streets and ask "How did this happen?"

[Hermod]

There are some very large and populous urban counties. Fairfax County, Virginia come to mind. They have no sub-level government entities. The county runs the schools, police department, fire department, libraries, etc. There are also some consolidations in which the city took over the entire county [[Virginia Beach, VA).

i would guess that the fastest way the Detroit could make it happen would be to vote to "deincorporate" with Wayne County becoming then responsible to administer and serve the vast unincorporated part of the county formerly occupied by the City of Detroit.

[iheartthed]

First, a correction:

Indianapolis is not the 12th largest city in the country, that would be San Francisco. Which means that the 2nd most dense city of the top 12 would be San Francisco, not Philadelphia. Which would also push Detroit down to the 6th spot, not 5th.

Not much of a change... Because clearly the most glaring difference between the top 5 largest cities are that they have good to great transportation systems, and have stopped their population hemorrhaging, while Detroit is the complete opposite on both points.

Second:

I'm not sure that the benefit of picking up a couple million dollars from the feds will outweigh the costs of merging the city and county government. Nor will it be a panacea to curb sprawl and reinvest in the inner-city.

[Detroitnerd]

Very interesting! Sounds like you should take a gander at this book:

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/colu...by-david-rusk/

[Supersport]

Latest estimates have Sanfranciso at #14, behind both Indy and Jacksonville.

[Meddle]

What, you want Ficano running the city?

[Detroitnerd]

It's not a given that this would give more power to the old McNamara machine. People generally pay much closer attention to municipal than county government.

[iheartthed]

Latest estimates have Sanfranciso at #14, behind both Indy and Jacksonville.

Estimates from 2009? The list that I referenced was from 2008, and there was a 10,000 resident buffer between Indy and SF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

While it is possible, I think it's unlikely that either city's population took such a dramatic swing to close that gap in just a year.

[Novine]

"Is a city/county consolidation nothing more than a dream?"

Yes.

Most places where consolidation has happened, it's been pushed by business and suburban interests who saw the opportunity to capture control of downtown development, usually with Republican support. Also, opponents of consolidation in Detroit would cry about a Detroit takeover of the suburbs. In fact, consolidation in Louisville and Indianapolis has resulted in the opposite, a loss of control to the suburban interests and the same would likely happen in Detroit.

http://www.citymayors.com/government/louisville.html

[Supersport]

So is the fact that every city aside from Philly is larger than Detroit, regarding the top dozen or so cities, also due to some Republican conspiracy? Detroit is at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to the city's size, for many reasons I have already listed.

Is the merger of city/county really all that different than when companies merge or buyout other companies? Aren't many of the reasonings behind it also the same? Why does it have to be Detroit taking over the suburbs, or the suburbs gaining control over the city? Why can't it simply be one new municipality formed, and all of the people of Wayne county would vote for the officials to run the newly formed city. Mayors of existing suburbs could possibly become city council positions, as the current system basically is a system of checks and balances with the mayor and city council.

I'm not saying such a consolidation is the necesarily the solution, I just think that a good number of peoples fears regarding it are unwarranted.

[Detroitnerd]

So is the fact that every city aside from Philly is larger than Detroit, regarding the top dozen or so cities, also due to some Republican conspiracy? Detroit is at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to the city's size, for many reasons I have already listed.

Is the merger of city/county really all that different than when companies merge or buyout other companies? Aren't many of the reasonings behind it also the same? Why does it have to be Detroit taking over the suburbs, or the suburbs gaining control over the city? Why can't it simply be one new municipality formed, and all of the people of Wayne county would vote for the officials to run the newly formed city. Mayors of existing suburbs could possibly become city council positions, as the current system basically is a system of checks and balances with the mayor and city council.

I'm not saying such a consolidation is the necesarily the solution, I just think that a good number of peoples fears regarding it are unwarranted.

I like the idea. Have everything from Trenton out to Canton up to Northville and all of the Pointes as DETROIT. Then start merging in the Oakland and Macomb county communities as they start going broke. Merge 30- or 40-odd police departments, fire departments, school districts, liquor control boards, inspection departments, etc. into one and save hundreds of millions of dollars a year doing it. Use broader voting pool to overthrow local kleptocracies. Institute district voting so leaders are held accountable.

[Novine]

"So is the fact that every city aside from Philly is larger than Detroit, regarding the top dozen or so cities, also due to some Republican conspiracy? Detroit is at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to the city's size, for many reasons I have already listed."

Who said anything about a Republican conspiracy? I was pointing out the factors that have driven city-county consolidation in other locations and the outcome of those consolidations as it has impacted various interest groups.

"Is the merger of city/county really all that different than when companies merge or buyout other companies?"

If you want to use this analogy, explain how an acquisition would work? In the corporate world, a failing company can be acquired to gain control of a brand name or select pieces of the company. The rest gets sold off in a fire sale or simply ceases to exist. You can't do that with a city and its residents.

[ghettopalmetto]

I don't think annexation would necessarily fix any problems. All it would do is boost the population and square mileage numbers. Nothing more. The factors that make the region dysfunctional, i.e. the allocation of resources toward geographic expansion in the midst of a constant population, aren't going to disappear.

Jacksonville, Florida is 767 square miles [[2nd largest city in the United States) and has over 800,000 residents. None of it means a damned thing.