Hell, That's HAIL, Mary!

**Gannon** · April-21-09, 07:56 AM

I drove out to Belle Isle this morning, and twice was hit by tiny pellets of hail while sitting in my car looking on the cityscape.

Weird.

What day is it again?!

**Pam** · April-21-09, 09:45 AM

Weird.
What day is it again?!

Not weird. Hail happens in the spring.

**ndavies** · April-21-09, 09:49 AM

Be glad it's not freezing rain. I've had it snow on me when I was putting the boat in on Mothers day.

**MikeM** · April-21-09, 09:51 AM

Were just coming into hail season. May and June are the peak hail months.

**rjlj** · April-21-09, 09:53 AM

Worst post ever.

I took a crap today, should I post about it?

**jcole** · April-21-09, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by rjlj

Worst post ever.

I took a crap today, should I post about it?

Oh, please do. I'm sure it would be an improvement over some of the crap on the non-Detroit side.

**grumpyoldlady** · April-21-09, 03:26 PM

Rjij...your post is worse than the post about the hail. I found the fact that it hailed interesting.

**PurpleHeart** · April-21-09, 03:27 PM

Hail means high winds aloft drawing warm moist air up into the high clouds thus freezing it and dumping it back down. Hail is a sign of unstable air/front/mass moving in to the area.

local Michigan Weather Service Radar updated constantly

**Detroitej72** · April-21-09, 05:35 PM

I actually heard one of the neo-cons on right wing radio once say that hail is proof that global warming is a farce. I guess they failed science class.

Retroit · April-21-09, 05:53 PM

Not to be nit-picky or anything, but what you saw was not hail but sleet.

Hail is formed high in the atmosphere during a thunderstorm. It is caused by raindrops being relifted into freezing air in the manner described by PurpleHeart. It is usually larger than sleet. It falls on warmer days, but because of its large size it does not have time to melt before reaching the ground.

Sleet is rain drops that fall from warm air into freezing air. They are small ice pellets, usually no larger than a pea, and falls on colder days.

**iheartthed** · April-21-09, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

Not to be nit-picky or anything, but what you saw was not hail but sleet.

Hail is formed high in the atmosphere during a thunderstorm. It is caused by raindrops being relifted into freezing air in the manner described by PurpleHeart. It is usually larger than sleet. It falls on warmer days, but because of its large size it does not have time to melt before reaching the ground.

Sleet is rain drops that fall from warm air into freezing air. They are small ice pellets, usually no larger than a pea, and falls on colder days.

It was hail.

**Gannon** · April-21-09, 06:18 PM

I couldn't find any cutesy near-offensive thread titling to work with 'sleet'.

**Pam** · April-21-09, 06:55 PM

It was hail.

Yahoo weather agrees with you. I saw a hail warning posted on there today.

Retroit · April-21-09, 07:57 PM

No hail fell in Michigan today. Whatever Yahoo said was wrong. If you could post a link, I'd be happy to inform them of that.

I personally witnessed it twice [[approx 11:30 a.m. and approx. 2:00 p.m.), but even absent that, the conditions were not right for hail.

MICHIGAN HOURLY REGIONAL WEATHER ROUNDUP
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DETROIT/PONTIAC MI
700 PM EDT TUE APR 21 2009

CITY SKY/WX TMP DP RH WIND PRES REMARKS
DETROIT LGTSLEET 45 37 76 SW13 29.57R

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/view/prodsBy...rodtype=hourly

"The Difference Between Hail, Sleet, and Freezing Rain
Many times I hear people say during a winter storm that it is hailing. This is actually called sleet. Hail normally occurs in thunderstorms and is the result of strong updrafts that repeatedly carry growing chunks of ice upwards into the clouds. Once the hail stones become too heavy to be lifted by the updrafts, they fall to the ground. Hail stones are normally much larger than sleet pellets and they can cause damage to crops, windshields, people, etc. Sleet occurs during a winter storm and is caused by rain falling into a cold layer of air aloft which has to be below freezing. As the raindrops fall through the cold layer of air, they freeze and become small ice pellets. When they hit your car windshield or your windows at home, they can make quite a racket. Sleet can accumulate on the roads and sidewalks making driving and walking quite hazardous. Freezing rain is basically rain that falls onto the ground and then freezes AFTER it hits the ground. It causes a glaze of ice on trees and any surface that is below freezing. Freezing rain causes the most hazardous of driving and walking conditions. Freezing rain is what causes the power outages as a result of the ice that forms on the trees and power lines making them so heavy that they come down. A temperature inversion causes the conditions that result in freezing rain. This means that it is warmer aloft than it is at the surface. "

http://weatherdudes.com/facts_display.php?fact_id=24

**iheartthed** · April-22-09, 09:00 AM

It was hail. I saw it with my own eyes. It was way too warm yesterday for there to have been sleet.

**Locke09** · April-22-09, 09:22 AM

I was walking in it. At the time I wondered, are these tiny things hail? They were about the size of little raindrops and they bounced as they hit the sidewalk. So, I'm going to agree that it was sleet.

**MikeM** · April-22-09, 10:03 AM

The occurence of ice pellets shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who's lived in Michigan as long as Gannon. It's hardly worth arguing about but I suppose the convective nature of the precipitation yesterday would lead it to be called hail as opposed to sleet. The other popular website about Detroit has a short movie clip of yesterday's ice pellets banging off a metal balcony railing.

[[Not yelling)

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DETROIT/PONTIAC MI
155 PM EDT TUE APR 21 2009

THE GOING FORECAST IS IN GREAT SHAPE. OCCASIONAL SHOWERS HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING THIS MORNING WITHIN A WEDGE OF STEEP LOW LEVEL LAPSE RATES OF THE OLD DRY SLOT. LATEST LAPS CALCULATIONS AND TAMDAR SOUNDINGS SUPPORT A FAVORABLE CONVECTIVE ENVIRONMENT [[LOW FREEZING LEVELS OF 2-3KFT) FOR SMALL HAIL...PEA SIZE TO ONE QUARTER INCH.

THIS SECTOR OF HIGHER INSTABILITY IS HANDLED WELL IN THE
950-925MB THETA E FIELDS AND IS CURRENTLY TRACKING THROUGH THE CWA. THE BACK EDGE IS NOW ALONG A LINE FROM SAGINAW BAY STRAIGHT SOUTH TO THE LENAWEE/MONROE COUNTY BORDER. SUSPECT THIS HAIL ACTIVITY WILL WANE QUICKLY WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE COLD FRONT/WIND SHIFT AS EFFICIENTLY COOLER/DRIER AIRMASS BUILDS IN.

Retroit · April-22-09, 10:51 AM

Agreed MikeM, it is not worth arguing about, just a simple matter of fact. I sent an e-mail to the White Lake NWS Office asking for clarification and permission to post it. We'll see. Maybe they themselves are unclear?

CLIMATE REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DETROIT/PONTIAC MI
128 AM EDT WED APR 22 2009

...THE DETROIT MI CLIMATE SUMMARY FOR APRIL 21 2009...

WEATHER CONDITIONS
THE FOLLOWING WEATHER WAS RECORDED YESTERDAY.
LIGHT RAIN
SLEET
FOG

http://www.weather.gov/climate/index.php?wfo=dtx

**Locke09** · April-22-09, 11:14 AM

I view this as a rather interesting exploration of the difference between hail and sleet. At the end of it, I expect to have learned something [[actually, I already have thanks to Retroit).

Perhaps the difference in what MikeM found and what Retroit found is that one appears to be a "forecast" and the other is a summary of what actually happened?

Retroit · April-22-09, 11:19 AM

Here's a copy of my e-mail:

Subject: What fell yesterday: Hail or Sleet?

To Whom It May Concern:

A friendly debate has arisen on a web forum that I belong to [[www.detroityes.com) as to what actually fell in Detroit yesterday. I think it was Sleet, but your office and other forum members have described it as Hail. Could you please clarify? If it officially was Hail, do your forecasts/reports distinguish between Hail & Sleet or are both lumped together as Hail? I would like to post your response on the forum if that is okay with you [[even if I'm wrong!). Thank you for your time and all the work that your office does for the public.

Sincerely,
"Retroit"

**MikeM** · April-22-09, 02:16 PM

That's good of you to go straight to the source - more than most people around here would do. Metro airport was reporting [[ice) pellets, what you would would call sleet, not an official type of precipitation but without a report of a thunderstorm in the area, they would probably call it ice pellets.

I think of it this way: Rain falling through a thin layer of sub-freezing air and freezing on contact - freezing rain. Rain falling through a thicker layer of sub-freezing air and turning into solid pellets - sleet. Rain that freezes because it is circulated through freezing levels aloft by convection - hail. I didn't see any of it where I live but the big puffy clouds and the above freezing temperatures at the surface made me think it was small hail.

**Bigb23** · April-22-09, 02:23 PM

Some fell around me about an hour ago. Little tiny pellets that would bounce and roll about an inch. In honor of DYes, I'll call it SLAIL.

**kahnman** · April-22-09, 02:28 PM

Yeah, well if Detroit got on the stick and implemented a Light Rail System, we would NEVER get hail or sleet or slail!!

...uhhh....what was that?!?

I must have been channeling Trainman. Sorry.

Retroit · April-22-09, 02:45 PM

Say NO to Hail and vote YES on Sleet.

**Pam** · April-22-09, 05:36 PM

Just noticed this warning for today:

MIDLAND-BAY-SAGINAW-TUSCOLA-SANILAC-SHIAWASSEE-GENESEE-LAPEER-
ST. CLAIR-LIVINGSTON-OAKLAND-MACOMB-WASHTENAW-WAYNE-LENAWEE-
MONROE-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...MIDLAND...BAY CITY...SAGINAW...CARO...
SANDUSKY...OWOSSO...FLINT...LAPEER...PORT HURON...HOWELL...
PONTIAC...WARREN...ANN ARBOR...DETROIT...ADRIAN...MONROE
428 PM EDT WED APR 22 2009

SHOWERS WILL CONTINUE TO MOVE ACROSS SOUTHEAST LOWER MICHIGAN LATE
THIS AFTERNOON. THIS PRECIPITATION MAY BECOME BRIEFLY HEAVY AT
TIMES...WITH THE MOST INTENSE SHOWERS CONTAINING BURSTS OF SMALL HAIL.
THE COVERAGE AND INTENSITY OF THIS ACTIVITY WILL DIMINISH AFTER 8
PM.