Colorado Springs: Galt's Gulch?

**oladub** · April-14-10, 09:20 AM

Colorado Springs recently had an election in which residents were offered the chance to triple their property taxes in order to maintain city services at present levels. This came about because sales tax revenues had declined 22% because of the recession. A 'yes' vote would have restored $27.6 million [[13%) to the city's $212 million general fund budget. One busisnessman asked why the city spends $89,000 per employee; a rate higher than that received by private employees. The majority voted, instead, against tripling their property taxes forcing the City to drastically reduce services including the number of firefighters, street lighting, park maintainance, and bus service.

This choice by Colorado Springs voters is being viewed as a lab case to see how such an experiment goes. How will residents adjust? This cut in city services will hurt some people but so would a tripling of property taxes. California and some other places will have to make similar decisions soon. Might this work in one place and not in another and why? Would you vote to triple your own property taxes given the same options?

Colorado Springs cuts into services considered basic by many
Can a Town Survive With Nearly No Government? with additional links at the end of this article.

In a related story, Ashtabula County in Ohio also had to make some budget cuts including reducing the size of it's police frce from 112 to 49. There is a waiting list of 700 people waiting to do jail time. "Ashtabula County Common Pleas Judge Alfred Mackey was asked what residents should do to protect themselves and their families with the severe cutback in law enforcement. "Arm themselves," the judge said. "Be very careful, be vigilant, get in touch with your neighbors, because we're going to have to look after each other.""
Ashtabula County: Judge tells residents to "Arm themselves"

**East Detroit** · April-14-10, 09:39 AM

Should have told them to stop shopping at Walmart like short-term thinking simpletons.

**Sstashmoo** · April-14-10, 11:43 AM

East Detroit, Right on...

It's really beginning to hit home, states are broke, cities are broke. Embrace the "Global economy".

**Diehard** · April-14-10, 10:48 PM

Wow. I know it's not much like Detroit, what with the military base and all those evangelical megachurches, but that town might get its "oh shit" moment fairly soon.
When crime goes unpunished because of a lack of police, when kids have nothing to do because of a lack of recreational programs, when streetlights go dark and trash gets left on the curb... well, Tea Partiers should watch this and see if government really is the enemy.

**Papasito** · April-15-10, 06:45 AM

It's the massive Federal spending that's killing this country,
typically the local level government needs a little tweaking but it's not the root of the problem.

Our government was not designed to be as large as it is today.
Our nation simply can't affort it. Something has got to give

**oldredfordette** · April-15-10, 07:11 AM

Papasito you keep saying that. Back it up with some facts, and no more of that can't link at work shit.

**gazhekwe** · April-15-10, 07:42 AM

Fed government IS spending way too much fighting wars we should never have gotten into in the first place. But what really put us in this fix is shopping for all those foreign made things on borrowed money, buying overpriced real estate and borrowing on overvalued real estate. At least if we had American workers making the goods we bought, we would have supported more of our own economy.

**oladub** · April-16-10, 12:07 AM

from the OP: "Would you vote to triple your own property taxes given the same options?"

Some good ideas here but the voters in Colorado Springs were given the choice of losing services or paying three times as much property tax. They weren't asked for 10% increase but instead a 300% increase to sustain the status quo. I might vote for a temporary 25% tax increase considering all the service cutbacks but not a 300% increase so I would have voted 'no'. A 300% increase would have boosted my property taxes from $3,000 to $9,000 a year which would be unaffordable. Renters could expect some similar huge increase in their rent as landlords passed along their tax increases to tenants. Are there any critics of the service loses here who would vote for such a tax increase?

**East Detroit** · April-16-10, 05:45 AM

In other, non-related news...

Wal-Mart returned to the top of the Fortune 500 list this year, trading places with Exxon Mobile, which topped the 2009 list. Wal-Mart had previously topped the list in 2008 and 2007.

http://www.suntimes.com/business/216...041510.article

**johnsmith** · April-16-10, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

Are there any critics of the service loses here who would vote for such a tax increase?

Great question oladub. Let's see if any of the big gov't supporters bother to answer that here.

Put me down as a definite no vote for a 300% property tax increase.

By oldredfordette's proclaimed love of unaffordable big government above, I assume she would jump at the chance to pay triple in property taxes, maybe even more.

**Diehard** · April-16-10, 10:00 AM

Maybe I overlooked it in one of those articles, but why was it such a huge number? I wonder why they couldn't have proposed less than a 300% hike? That IS too much for the average Joe to handle.
I also wonder, with all those evangelical Christian groups and churches based there, if there will be a surge in charity and volunteerism to keep things going. It's the Christian way, but it's not something governments can rely on.

**Diehard** · April-16-10, 10:37 AM

I like this comment from one of the other stories linked to from that first post:

"A conservative patriot is someone who will tell you in one breath how much "they love their country" and in the next breath say that they don't want to pay a goddamn nickel in taxes to live here!"

Stosh · April-16-10, 01:59 PM

Nobody in their right mind would jump for a 300 percent hike.

That being said, the City of Colorado Springs has been anti-tax for a long time. And their insistence on a low tax rate has come to bite them in the ass.

Seems to me that CS is barking up the wrong tree in their methods of cuts. If their benefits to their employees is too steep, they should have renegotiated long ago. Sounds to me as a case of incompetent city management and a distinct lack of planning.

And Smith, your comments are, as usual, useless and cretinlike. Perhaps some day you will attempt to rein in the temptation to post your vitriol. Good Day!

**Jimaz** · April-16-10, 02:15 PM

Nobody in their right mind would jump for a 300 percent hike.

That being said, the City of Colorado Springs has been anti-tax for a long time. And their insistence on a low tax rate has come to bite them in the ass

Yes, I was about to point that out myself. If their taxes were really low to begin with then that 300% wouldn't seem so remarkable. Heck, at the extreme, 300% of $0 would be no hike at all.

**Red Devil** · April-17-10, 11:19 PM

Pretty funny how Colorado Springs can be so anti tax when they are collectively one of the biggest pigs at the DoD trough.

**jiminnm** · April-18-10, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Pretty funny how Colorado Springs can be so anti tax when they are collectively one of the biggest pigs at the DoD trough.

And this, of course, would have nothing to do with the Air Force Academy being located there.

**Red Devil** · April-18-10, 06:47 PM

USAFA, Peterson AFB, NORAD, Ft Carson, all the DoD contractors and DoD retirees living there...the Springs is a one trick pony.

**barnesfoto** · April-19-10, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Red Devil

USAFA, Peterson AFB, NORAD, Ft Carson, all the DoD contractors and DoD retirees living there...the Springs is a one trick pony.

Wonder how many of them enjoy "government health care?"

**Papasito** · April-19-10, 04:14 PM

Our government was not designed to be as large as it is today.
Our nation simply can't affort it. Something has got to give

Papasito you keep saying that. Back it up with some facts, and no more of that can't link at work shit.

try looking at the national debt
if we could affort government this big,
debt would not exist.

Need I link the debt clock?
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
there ya go sweetheart

**Crumbled_pavement** · April-19-10, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

Would you vote to triple your own property taxes given the same options?

In Detroit, hell no. If I were in Colorado Springs it would depend on various things. I guess the first and most pertinent question to ask would be if this was a temporary tax hike or a permanent tax hike? If sales tax revenue fell by 22% necessating the need to increase property taxes, what happens when the sales tax revenue picks back up? Does the property tax stay at the same level and the mayor and city council get to party like it's 1999? Or do they cut the property taxes back to the levels they were before?

**Red Devil** · April-20-10, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by barnesfoto

Wonder how many of them enjoy "government health care?"

I bet they love it no doubt. They have a sense of entitlement since they "served" or whatever. And, as Im sure you know, for some reason the DoD doesn't fall under "big goverment"

**Glowblue** · April-21-10, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Papasito

try looking at the national debt
if we could affort government this big,
debt would not exist.

Need I link the debt clock?
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
there ya go sweetheart

A high deficit is just as much evidence that the tax rate is too low as it is that govenment spending is too high. You'll need to do better than that.