Orange Barrel Blues

**MizMotown** · April-12-10, 09:25 AM

Michigan Ave. thru the Dearborn business district. One lane!

Southfield Freeway N. one lane going north over the weekend

This construction crap is a joke. I don't think there is any rhyme or reason to Michigan's road systems anyway. Half the time it seems they are re-doing the same roads over and over. Someone is getting rich!

...not to mention the folks who can't drive...

DC48080 · April-12-10, 09:27 AM

Yes, road construction is a pain in the rear. But if the roads were maintained even less than they currently are imagine how much worse they would be.

Would you rather put up with occasional road work or drive on pot hole riddled crumbled roadways?

**MizMotown** · April-12-10, 10:06 AM

I'd rather they would do them right the first time. I would rather they did that crap at night like they do in FL. Who ever designed the road system around here in the first place should be shot... lol

jusss getting my vent on for a minute... :-)

**Fury13** · April-12-10, 10:09 AM

Over in Europe, they do road construction with higher-quality, more durable materials so the repairs last a long time. But if they tried that here, it'd mean less regular work for the road crews and fewer jobs.

Sooooo.... here we are.

**Hermod** · April-12-10, 10:21 AM

Southeast Michigan is a very difficult environment for roads. Michigan has always had pot-holed roads where water gets into the base and the road is destroyed by truck traffic. Mound Road has traditionally been an obstacle course.

**eno** · April-12-10, 10:25 AM

Road damage is a result of the high weight allowances for heavy trucks. Michigan allows much higher truck weight than neighboring states who suffer the same freeze-thaw cycles. A recent survey found the roads in Pennsylvania and Michigan to be the worst in the US.

http://www.connectmidmichigan.com/ne...aspx?id=436779

**Hermod** · April-12-10, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by MizMotown

I'd rather they would do them right the first time. I would rather they did that crap at night like they do in FL.

I live in SE Florida now. If Florida had the same freeze-thaw cycle, their roads would fall apart just as easily.

**TKshreve** · April-12-10, 11:10 AM

I think I read here last year that these road construction companies get their first checks the minute the barrels go up. Then they sit there idle for weeks before work starts. Can anyone verify this with a source? If so, it's despicable.

I am a big advocate of night work as well. Portland, OR does it. They do it successfully as well. You'd figure its successes would be copied. Or maybe MI prefers "doubled" fines because they are committed in work zones.

My commute will be doubled in time due to "Road Work". 20-25 minutes turns into 45-50 minutes. Get a clue MDOT.

**jgavrile** · April-12-10, 11:18 AM

The roads can be paved correctly if they wanted. The contractors use crappy material so that they can come back in a few years re-bid the job and get it again.
A fact! The original Davison freeway was never repaved from 1942. The only reason they re-did it 10 years ago, is because they made it wider. They used some type of flooding of the concrete to cure it. Man it sure lasted.

**carterjan48** · April-12-10, 12:33 PM

Oh come on now. If the roads were constructed in the right way how would John Carlos be able to live the life of luxury?

**thomprod** · April-12-10, 12:47 PM

Cost-cutting pressures due to lower maintenance budgets have lead MDOT to issue construction, repair and repaving contracts to the lowest bidders. The lowest bidder usually skimps on materials in order to maximize profit. Many contracts include a bonus for the contractor if they complete a project ahead of schedule, which is another incentive to cut corners.

I agree with MizMotown and Fury13. The answer is to do it right the first time. But for repairs and repaving, we should bite the bullet and spend the bucks to repair it with the technique and materials that will last the longest, rather than go for a quick fix that is short-sighted.

**jbd441** · April-12-10, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

I live in SE Florida now. If Florida had the same freeze-thaw cycle, their roads would fall apart just as easily.

It maybe possible that the sandy soil underneath FL roads may cause sinking in certain areas. Also too I observed semis traveling on secondary roads and residental streets. This has to have an effect on the wear on roads. Also we may not have the freeze/thaw but we have the extreme heating/cooling which affects asphalt.

Just my 2 cents

**DetroitPlanner** · April-12-10, 02:45 PM

This year will be terrible in terms of construction. Most of the Economic Stimulus projects will hit the roads at the begining of the construction season. This will be added to the regular construction projects that get doled out every year.

MDOT has been doing a better job scheduling construction than in years past. The biggest issue we have at the begining of the season is that most folks have not yet figured out an alternate route. For Southfield construction, your best bet is Greenfield or Telegraph. For Michigan it is either Ford or possibly Van Born, these will vary based upon your final destination.

Europave is a very expensive and complicated process to implement. Detroit has much more severe weather than Europe limiting the time roads can be constructed, in order to do Europave you need to close down the entire roadway, not just a few lanes, and in may cases it is just as cost effective for the road agencies to resurface a road, wait ten years, then do it again.

Davison is getting reconstructed in a different spot than it was widened. Bridges are getting repaired not replaced, and a resurfacing is taking place. This will help extend the work that was completed 15 years ago.

Cheer up next year the Stimulus dollars will be gone and MDOT will leave $100's of millions of federal construction on the table because they cannot afford to match it based upon its current debt service. Therefore construction will be consideably less, but the roads will just wear out exponentally faster.

**DetroitPlanner** · April-12-10, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by thomprod

Cost-cutting pressures due to lower maintenance budgets have lead MDOT to issue construction, repair and repaving contracts to the lowest bidders. The lowest bidder usually skimps on materials in order to maximize profit. Many contracts include a bonus for the contractor if they complete a project ahead of schedule, which is another incentive to cut corners.

MDOT designs the project in nearly all cases. In the case of a design build contract they require a much longer [[20-30 year) lifespan to which the contractor is held accountable and must buy insurance to ensure that the fixes if needed are made.

**Hermod** · April-12-10, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by jbd441

It maybe possible that the sandy soil underneath FL roads may cause sinking in certain areas. Also too I observed semis traveling on secondary roads and residental streets. This has to have an effect on the wear on roads. Also we may not have the freeze/thaw but we have the extreme heating/cooling which affects asphalt.

Just my 2 cents

1. Yes, there are semis traveling on the secondary roads, but most of them are loaded with the lighter cargo which "cubes out" before it "weighs out". Those semis going up to Michigan from Pittsburgh with loads of coiled steel sheet or coiled steel rod are what really hits the pavement hard.

2. Once you stabilize sand with a binder of "fines", it is good material to work with as it drains very well. The Michigan clay holds water and sub-base compaction and drainage is a lot more critical. Remember that much of northern Wayne county and southern Oakland and Macomb County is former swamp land which was drained and filled.

**MizMotown** · April-14-10, 12:24 PM

Thanks for your replies. The bottom line is all this construction creates more dangerous commutes, more angry people, more tie-ups on other roads. It's beyond ridiculous. I understand the roads have to be fixed but again there are folks getting extremely RICH off of bad road conditions in Michigan. And they are getting RICH on OUR TAX DOLLARS. And we just seem to put up with it. I wish some entity would really do some investigative reporting and pull some FOIA's to at least prove us conspiracy theorists wrong. :-)

By the way... bad accident on 96 and Outer Dr. area involving a car hauler. I hate those things too.

:-)

**Fury13** · April-14-10, 01:43 PM

Get the long-haul truckers off the roads. Semis are the biggest destroyers of highways and a hindrance/danger to auto traffic, especially during rush hour. Move long-distance freight back to rail, and limit truck freight to local delivery only.

Maybe that solution wouldn't be good for the Teamsters, but it would be good for everyone else.

**exmotowner** · April-14-10, 01:50 PM

its not just Michigan or Detroit guys. We have constant construction here in Nashville during the summer too. They close whole freeways sometimes on the weekends.