It's Back! I-94 rebuild in Detroit returns

[Detroitnerd]

Do you think that, perhaps, if MDOT stopped embarking on multi-billion dollar freeway expansion projects, they might have money for things like paint and concrete patching?

Quite true. I imagine the road lobby is gearing up for a new governor who might dump the [[eminently sensible) fix-it-first policy and embark on a disastrous series of freeway expansions.

[Hermod]

1. As noted above, the Ford needs massive refurbishment to maintain it in its current alignment and configuration. Michigan winters are not kind to roads and bridges and the Ford has been through a few.

2. The Ford-Lodge interchange is built to a very obsolete plan which requires massive "weaving" for left turning traffic to exit on the left. The Ford-Chrysler is designed as a "pinwheel" interchange with a minimum of interweaving traffic conflicts.

3. Much of the Ford is designed "pre-interstate" which means that the freeway is not up to accepted interstate standards. In particular, the length of the entrance and exit ramps and acceleration and deceleration lanes for the ramps is necessary.

4. To rehabilitate the Ford and to bring it up to interstate standards will be expensive in its own right. Widening the Ford during the rehab will add little to the price.

5. A good idea would be to widen the service drives and to incorporate light rail into the Ford service drives from Telegraph on the west to 8-mile on the northeast.

[Gsgeorge]

SO what are the actual plans for the reconstruction of the Lodge/I-94 & I-75/I-94 freeway interchanges? Has anyone seen the prelims or has MDOT released anything? I imagine it would answer a lot of questions about which homes & businesses would be affected and why the Midtown bridges are being removed.

[313WX]

For example, graffiti and litter are common problems on I-94; it would be nice if MDOT developed strategies, in building the freeway, to reduce or eliminate these indicators of blight.

If litter and graffiti are the only problems, then just force some convicts in our over-crowded jails [[and spend a couple thousand dollars for the supplies) to paint over it and pick up the litter regularly. If necessary have the police patrol the expressway for vandals.

It's that simple. Other than the long ride from the Airport, I haven't heard any complant from visitors about I-94. It's your typical urban freeway and in a dense city like Detroit it shouldn't be 10-12 rides wide. That's why we have Warren, Forest, Greatiot, 8 Mile [[etc.) as alternatives if people can't handle I-94's "congestion." Besides, NO ONE should have any reason to drive higher than 75 MPH on a dense urban freeway. There's a good reason why the speed limit on 4-lane roads in the outer-ring suburbs are 50 MPH and the speed limit on Gratiot in Detroit is 35 MPH.

[313WX]

First of all, routing a busy international interstate through a major city shouldn't have happened in the first place. There is no sane reason why people traveling from Chicago to Port Huron or vice-versa have to go through Detroit on a cut carved through in the 1950s and finished at great cost to the city. The traffic to Port Huron should be routed outside the city. The road designated as I-94 should only carry intracity traffic.

Much of it is intracity traffic. The Chicago to Port Huron traffic usually take I-69.

[313WX]

FYI, many of the cross-bridges along I-94 have already been completely updated. Gratiot was recently re-done when they did its construction a few years ago.

[313WX]

I don't think it's good when you have to avoid it.

Avoiding heavier areas of activity is normal in any place. It doesn't mean that area is broken or inefficient.

That's like saying Manhattan is bad because people usually avoid its gridlocked activity.

[bartock]

Do you think that, perhaps, if MDOT stopped embarking on multi-billion dollar freeway expansion projects, they might have money for things like paint and concrete patching?

I have no clue, so these are simply questions - what is the dynamic between MDOT and getting those federal funds? Would the funds be available - or how many of those funds would be available - if it was maintenance/patching versus these huge projects? Is Michigan still getting less of the gax tax dollars it puts in, and how does that come into play [[that may be purely political, I suppose).

[izzyindetroit]

Here are some maps.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MD...R_118213_7.pdf

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MD...0_118211_7.pdf

Like East Detroit said, I don't understand why everyone is all up in arms about this. It is an extremely needed upgrade on the infrastructure. Might as well add a couple lanes while your tearing everything up. It is a simple capital improvement. We need to improve and maintain our current structures before we think about adding other options.

[Hermod]

Here are some maps.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MD...R_118213_7.pdf

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MD...0_118211_7.pdf

Like East Detroit said, I don't understand why everyone is all up in arms about this. It is an extremely needed upgrade on the infrastructure. Might as well add a couple lanes while your tearing everything up. It is a simple capital improvement. We need to improve and maintain our current structures before we think about adding other options.

Basically, those overlaid photos show the conversion of the Ford-Lodge interchange into a pinwheel interchange like the Ford-Chrysler interchange. About time, I would say.

[The Dude]

1. As noted above, the Ford needs massive refurbishment to maintain it in its current alignment and configuration. Michigan winters are not kind to roads and bridges and the Ford has been through a few.

2. The Ford-Lodge interchange is built to a very obsolete plan which requires massive "weaving" for left turning traffic to exit on the left. The Ford-Chrysler is designed as a "pinwheel" interchange with a minimum of interweaving traffic conflicts.

3. Much of the Ford is designed "pre-interstate" which means that the freeway is not up to accepted interstate standards. In particular, the length of the entrance and exit ramps and acceleration and deceleration lanes for the ramps is necessary.

4. To rehabilitate the Ford and to bring it up to interstate standards will be expensive in its own right. Widening the Ford during the rehab will add little to the price.

5. A good idea would be to widen the service drives and to incorporate light rail into the Ford service drives from Telegraph on the west to 8-mile on the northeast.

You're right on number 3. When the Edsel Ford Freeway opened it was originally the Crosstown and the Interstate System wasn't invented yet. Around 1958, it became I-94.

[ghettopalmetto]

SO what are the actual plans for the reconstruction of the Lodge/I-94 & I-75/I-94 freeway interchanges? Has anyone seen the prelims or has MDOT released anything? I imagine it would answer a lot of questions about which homes & businesses would be affected and why the Midtown bridges are being removed.

I'm sure you can just dust off the preliminary scope of work that MDOT released in 1997 or 1998. Road building agencies, er, "Departments of Transportation" aren't usually too keen on letting things like "research" and "information" or "money" get in the way of plans they've had on the shelf for decades.

[DetroitDad]

What can we do to make the greater downtown area desirable to move into for middle class residents, many of which commute from the suburbs? What can/should inner suburbia offer for those city residents who have to commute into the suburbs for entry level service jobs?

[Gistok]

I'm sure you can just dust off the preliminary scope of work that MDOT released in 1997 or 1998. Road building agencies, er, "Departments of Transportation" aren't usually too keen on letting things like "research" and "information" or "money" get in the way of plans they've had on the shelf for decades.

Well considering that there are fewer and not more buildings along the proposed path... and since they know the freeway volume.... why should they start from scratch and plan this all over again?

For anyone who has looked at maps of Detroit, I-94 is the major east/west route IN the city as well as THRU the city.

Due to how Detroit developed, there no easy to navigate east/west routes thru the city for miles north or south of I-94. Warren/Forest is a mish-mash of one way... then 2 way... and then one way again streets going crosstown to the south of I-94. And the next crosstown roadway north of I-94 is 7 Mile Rd. Davidson would be considered one, since it crosses the westside nicely along with I-96, but it ends abruptly at Van Dyke on the near east side.

The widening of I-94 will help ease the bottleneck of Detroit's poor east/west roadway system.

However, with that said... I too would rather spend the 1.8 Billion on roadway maintenance rather than a rebuilt I-94.

[bartock]

Well considering that there are fewer and not more buildings along the proposed path... and since they know the freeway volume.... why should they start from scratch and plan this all over again?

For anyone who has looked at maps of Detroit, I-94 is the major east/west route IN the city as well as THRU the city.

Due to how Detroit developed, there no easy to navigate east/west routes thru the city for miles north or south of I-94. Warren/Forest is a mish-mash of one way... then 2 way... and then one way again streets going crosstown to the south of I-94. And the next crosstown roadway north of I-94 is 7 Mile Rd. Davidson would be considered one, since it crosses the westside nicely along with I-96, but it ends abruptly at Van Dyke on the near east side.

The widening of I-94 will help ease the bottleneck of Detroit's poor east/west roadway system.

However, with that said... I too would rather spend the 1.8 Billion on roadway maintenance rather than a rebuilt I-94.

This sort encapsulates what I was trying to ask before: CAN the $1.8 billion intended for this be spent on road maintenance rather than the I-94 or some other major project?

[detroitsgwenivere]

Hey Izzy- The reason why everyone is up in arms is because this project means the destruction of several homes, businesses and buildings in the only area of Detroit that has experienced steady growth and redevelopment. This would be a disaster for the neighborhoods bordering I-94, takng out the entire 4th St. area, a beautiful historic Catholic church on Woodward, solid blocks in the Brush/Ferry neighborhood, businesses like Alvins, King Books, and the Chene-Trombly Market, a fragile business corridor on eastside, and businesses that dot the westside, not to mention the hundreds of homes at the ends of north/south streets.

I'm sorry, but has anyone bothered to ask us, the residents, the voters, the taxpayers, whether or or not we would even WANT a development like this? To pay for a development like this?

Is two lanes of traffic worth destroying the entire north entryway to our city?

And does anyone else think that some in Lansing are using Detroit as their own personal funnel for federal dollars? I wonder what the rest of the country would think if they found out they were footing the 1.8B bill for a bullshit freeway widening project in a city with no regional transit during a massive recession. I'm almost tempted to call Fox News. Almost.

[motownmark04]

The Woodward exit on I-94 should be eliminated altogether.

[Gistok]

The Woodward exit on I-94 should be eliminated altogether.

I disagree... it would mess up access to Midtown and New Center from I-94. If you were on I-94 and wanted to go the DIA... and went onto I-75 south from I-94 to get off at the first exit for Midtown... you cannot exit at Warren... You would have to go all the way to Mack and then head back north.

That's quite a "U Turn"!

I think that Detroit's main street should have I-94 exit/entrance access.

[izzyindetroit]

Hey Izzy- The reason why everyone is up in arms is because this project means the destruction of several homes, businesses and buildings in the only area of Detroit that has experienced steady growth and redevelopment. This would be a disaster for the neighborhoods bordering I-94, takng out the entire 4th St. area, a beautiful historic Catholic church on Woodward, solid blocks in the Brush/Ferry neighborhood, businesses like Alvins, King Books, and the Chene-Trombly Market, a fragile business corridor on eastside, and businesses that dot the westside, not to mention the hundreds of homes at the ends of north/south streets.

Did you even fucking bother to look at the maps I posted??

[Hermod]

Did you even fucking bother to look at the maps I posted??

Maps? Maps? Those things are so passe'. Real people have GPS in their cars, don't you know?

Even before GPS, most people couldn't read a map anyway.

[313WX]

This would be a disaster for the neighborhoods bordering I-94, takng out the entire 4th St. area, a beautiful historic Catholic church on Woodward, solid blocks in the Brush/Ferry neighborhood, businesses like Alvins, King Books, and the Chene-Trombly Market, a fragile business corridor on eastside, and businesses that dot the westside, not to mention the hundreds of homes at the ends of north/south streets.

Wasn't the Chene-Trombly market already forced to move once before when they built the Poletown plant?

[Detroitnerd]

Funny how those maps put the Fourth Street neighborhood right on the edge where it's hard to get a read on what's happening there. Looks like they'll have to demolish the school and the library building back there. Not sure if this map means the destruction of the Valson, but it would probably take away the apartment building's alley and parking. I'm especially concerned about that neighborhood because so many of my friends live there. I also notice the new plan would cut off their easy pedestrian access to Wayne State University, which would make their neighborhood less desirable.

Yeah, these plans seem pretty old. Even the map overlays are old. I guess it makes sense, though. No reason they'd want to show you how they routed the service drive within a few yards of the new high school. [[Sigh.)

Nobody here seems to be saying that I-94 should be removed or never be maintained. But this plan seems designed with no neighborhood input, and, if implemented, [[a) will hurt the new development by cutting off two neighborhoods that are just beginning to work together, [[b) will not solve congestion problems, and [[c) will spend a whole lot of money that we probably should be using to maintain our infrastructure. What's the big deal with driving 55 mph on one freakin' expressway? You guys all Sammy Hagar?

[Detroitnerd]

I was looking for some websites made by people fighting against urban freeway expansion, but I couldn't find many. Perhaps in the midst of an enduring recession, people haven't been that interested in dumping money into expanding their freeways. [[Which makes this project, in a city with sky-high unemployment, all the more ridiculous.) But then I found the people who are fighting the Gateway project in Vancouver. They seem to have their act together. Look at some of their websites. Very interesting. Could be a model for pushing back.

http://www.livableregion.ca/issues_faq.html

http://wildernesscommittee.org/top_ten_gateway_myths

[detroitsgwenivere]

Did you even fucking bother to look at the maps I posted??

Dude, I don't give a shit about your old janky maps. I used to LIVE two houes away from this proposed expansion on 3rd. MDOT warned us and the businesses I listed that these dwelings might be razed for this nightmare TO OUR FACES. Not to mention that this has already stalled some Wayne State development projects near the edge of the freeway for over 10 YEARS. If you or anyone else arguing for this project the way it stands had ever attended the meetings MDOT had at WCCCD or Wayne State, you would know this. But since you guys probably don't live anywhere near I-94 in Detroit, It really doesn't matter to you does it? As long as you get to drive through the unpleasantness called Detroit 30 seconds faster.

I'm sorry, but I'm TIRED of this already. Every time someone gets some grandeose idea for "increasing our standard of living," it's Detroit residents who get f*cked.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Maps? Maps? Those things are so passe'. Real people have GPS in their cars, don't you know?

Even before GPS, most people couldn't read a map anyway.

Hah hah funny. I collect maps and minor in GIS.