Boozing till 4am

**gopher** · April-03-10, 02:06 AM

Someone told me today effective may 1 michigan will permit the sale of alochol until 4am.... Any one else hear the same?

**tahleel** · April-03-10, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by gopher

Someone told me today effective may 1 michigan will permit the sale of alochol until 4am.... Any one else hear the same?

What's the difference? Don't they do that now?

-Tahleel

**Lowell** · April-03-10, 10:45 AM

I haven't heard about those hours, but what i will be celebrating is no smoking in the bars [and elsewhere] starting May 1!

**milesdriven** · April-03-10, 10:52 AM

I know May 1 is when the smoking ban is supposed to go into effect, and when many bartenders and waitstaff will see their earnings plummet. I visited a bar in Monroe last weekend, which was well ventilated, and all three bartenders as well as 2/3 of the patrons at the bar were smoking. It made me wonder who we were protecting. An exemption should be put in place for family businesses and private clubs, allowing more money to stay in Michigan. I doubt Ms. Gran-ho has ever been to a dive bar in Detroit.

**Diehard** · April-03-10, 10:59 AM

The 4 a.m. question comes up from time to time, but unless Jenny G. mentions it I wouldn't put much stock in it. With the state's finances the way they are, it would make sense to squeeze two more hours' worth of tax revenue from the bars - but it's always been beaten back by the MADD crowd in the past.

**Lowell** · April-03-10, 11:22 AM

Milesdriven, that is a common anxiety when these laws start but Ontario has had the ban for quite awhile. Go to Windsor, the bars are filled. I have heard the same for California. If anything non-smokers, like myself, who are now over 75% will stay longer because we will be able to breathe and not come home smelling like a smokey bar. Smokers step outside and then they are back in.

I am not being sanctimonious either. I was a former smoker and part of the problem. This is about being fair to the people who work there and they are delighted.

Bearinabox · April-03-10, 11:29 AM

Oh, for fuck's sake, are we seriously going to start debating the smoking ban again? I'd rather be tied down and forced to read the Garwood and St. Jude Nostalgia threads back to back.

**Fury13** · April-03-10, 12:33 PM

There shouldn't even be a 4 a.m. cutoff. Allow 24/7 licensing like they have in Nevada [[and the state could collect the increased fees and revenues that would go along with such licenses).

The morality arguments regarding bars' closing times are tiresome and ridiculous. As for a perceived increase in drunk driving with longer bar hours, those drunks will be out driving no matter what time it is. Let the police deal with it and let the public know it won't be tolerated. That's what they tell people in Vegas and Reno: drink all you want, but don't you dare get in that car and drive drunk.

But yeah, I guess allowing a 4 a.m. license would be a good place for Michigan to start.

**Ray1936** · April-03-10, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Bearinabox

Oh, for fuck's sake, are we seriously going to start debating the smoking ban again? I'd rather be tied down and forced to read the Garwood and St. Jude Nostalgia threads back to back.

Absolutely ROFL, Bear. Thanks for the belly laugh this morning!

**Lowell** · April-03-10, 02:27 PM

Nothing to debate. It's law. Get over it.

I'm just high fivin' that I'll be able to stay til closing time -- whenever it is -- without suffocating.

**cman710** · April-03-10, 02:44 PM

There was much concern in New York when they enacted the smoking ban, too, especially for bars and bowling centers as well. I am not sure, but I believe that business has worked out to be just fine [[though some bowling centers have closed for other reasons).

The Dude · April-03-10, 02:54 PM

As far as the 4 am closing, I think it's just for Friday and Saturday nights. But you pay for a special license.
Michigan [[Wayne County) is the only place in the U.S.A. where you cannot buy alcohol at gas stations that have a convenience store inside.
As far as the smoking ban goes people going outside to have a smoke then going back in is not going to work in all places, especially in "clubs" where there's cover charge. Pay your 10 buck cc, have a drink, p, go out and have a smoke, go back in, "That'll be $10.00 cover, sir." 'I already paid you ten bucks, I just went out to have a frickin' smoke." "I'm sorry, sir, the management does not allow in and out smoking priveliges." "Jesus H. Christ on a crutch."

p.s. Even in the Bible Belt, you can stop at a gas station and buy beer inside.

The Dude · April-03-10, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Milesdriven, that is a common anxiety when these laws start but Ontario has had the ban for quite awhile. Go to Windsor, the bars are filled. I have heard the same for California. If anything non-smokers, like myself, who are now over 75% will stay longer because we will be able to breathe and not come home smelling like a smokey bar. Smokers step outside and then they are back in.

I am not being sanctimonious either. I was a former smoker and part of the problem. This is about being fair to the people who work there and they are delighted.

First, congratulations for quitting smoking. I never smoked, but I believe that Michigan should have done as in other states, leave it up to the bar owners" whether or not to allow smoking or not. Most people that go to bars smoke cigarettes aND THAT IS a fact. Let the people have a choice, if you want go to a bar that is non-smoking, fine. But let the bar owners and smokers have their places, too. That is the American way. The no smoking ban is the SOCIALIST way. The ban on smoking in all Michigan bars is an out and out example of what Ronald Reagan called "Government on our backs."

**Jimaz** · April-03-10, 03:37 PM

As far as the smoking ban goes people going outside to have a smoke then going back in is not going to work in all places, especially in "clubs" where there's cover charge.

Wouldn't they just stamp your hand or give you a ticket?

**leland_palmer** · April-03-10, 03:40 PM

I'm looking forward to smoke-free drinking. I'm glad that Michigan is joining the rest of the civilized world.

Here is a map of the various bans in the US.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/m...rams=Id=154845

**DetroitPlanner** · April-03-10, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

Michigan [[Wayne County) is the only place in the U.S.A. where you cannot buy alcohol at gas stations that have a convenience store inside.

The Mobil station at Michigan and Oakman has beer and wine; as does the Shell on Warren and Telegraph. In fact I am nearly certain you can buy liquor at the Shell. Are you sure this is a county law??

bartock · April-03-10, 05:09 PM

Don't ban smoking. Tax the hell out of places that want to allow smoking. It would become a niche. 90% [[non-scientific research) of places probably prefer it, and as a practical matter, any place generally over 18 for the majority of the year would be stuffed with smoking right outside their doors.

People in L.A. and I suspect the rest of CA still smoke in some bars freely. My limited vacation time there when I smoked is that it is sort of a speakeasy situation that I imagine exist no matter what law is passed. Sort of like banning any other "sin" or whatever metaphor you want to use. It will still exist.

The 4:00 bar situation is sort of the same, in keeping with the thread.

**old guy** · April-03-10, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Bearinabox

Oh, for fuck's sake, are we seriously going to start debating the smoking ban again? I'd rather be tied down and forced to read the Garwood and St. Jude Nostalgia threads back to back.

That is pretty funny. I actually got a good laugh out of that one myself.

**gopher** · April-03-10, 06:37 PM

Ok enough shit about smoking... Any definitive evidence on a 4am extension license? Links?

The Dude · April-03-10, 06:59 PM

[quote=gopher;134932]Ok enough shit about smoking... Any definitive evidence on a 4am extension license? Links?[/quotetry http://www.michigan.gov/lcc

**Hamtragedy** · April-03-10, 07:26 PM

To quote one of my favorite local musicians [[Man):

"The only booze on Sunday is the blood of Christ"

Before noon, that is.

DetroitDad · April-03-10, 07:40 PM

All I see is a market for smoke shops and other like businesses with adjacent smoking rooms and smoking lounges again. Well, until the non smokers hit those too.

When is it going to be time to end the smoking crusade, and pick up the fast food or automotive crusades...?

Kidding

**Fury13** · April-03-10, 08:05 PM

...I believe that Michigan should have done as in other states, leave it up to the bar owners" whether or not to allow smoking or not.

Actually, Michigan is now one of 38 states [[an overwhelming majority of the states) that mandates no smoking in bars. So, most other states didn't do as you have suggested, and let bar owners decide. Most states decided that the public health issue was too great. And if you leave it up to the bar owners, they'll go with what they know -- they think their customers are smokers. They don't realize they'd attract a whole new clientele if they'd make their places non-smoking.

Originally Posted by The Dude

Most people that go to bars smoke cigarettes aND THAT IS a fact. Let the people have a choice, if you want go to a bar that is non-smoking, fine.

Ahhh, but in the past, the reason that most bar-goers were smokers was because the non-smokers simply didn't want to deal with the smoke [[yes, believe it or not, putting up with it is that bad!). So most non-smokers simply stayed away from bars because of the human exhaust issue. Smokers are only 20 percent of the population, a clear minority, yet that minority has been keeping the majority out of those establishments for decades. What you'll see now is more non-smokers feeling free to go to the bars of their choice. And smokers can still go to the same places; they'll just have to smoke outside the door. I think that's the last thing I'll say on the subject, other than: it's going to be the law. Deal with it.

**pgn421** · April-03-10, 08:29 PM

government in charge of smoking ban,and healthcare. What's this world coming to?

**1KielsonDrive** · April-03-10, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by milesdriven

I know May 1 is when the smoking ban is supposed to go into effect, and when many bartenders and waitstaff will see their earnings plummet. I visited a bar in Monroe last weekend, which was well ventilated, and all three bartenders as well as 2/3 of the patrons at the bar were smoking. It made me wonder who we were protecting. An exemption should be put in place for family businesses and private clubs, allowing more money to stay in Michigan. I doubt Ms. Gran-ho has ever been to a dive bar in Detroit.

Sour apples. This is another one of those 'socialism, fascism, totalitarianism', accusations. Anything you don't like, which is anything proposed or implemented by the party which you are not a supporter of, even if it's the same as something that may have been proposed or supported by your party in the past, is an affront to, or a total revocation of, citizens rights or the constitution. Ms.Gran-ho, whom b/t/w, I am not a supporter of, wasn't the prime advocate of this legislation. I lived in San Francisco in 1998 when the California ban took effect. After everyone stopped crying, which was about 2 months, it was barely a blip on the screen.