Does the Devil Always Do God's Dirty Work?

[Gannon]

I think so.


http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/ne...lian_exorcist/


No kidding.

I think the same fellow was quoted recently as saying the Devil has gotten into the Vatican, too, so at least they are keeping the focus and balance of this whole thing.

I'll have to find that story, but it was recent...like last week.


It is truly crisis time for the Church of Rome. Decades overdue, in some cases centuries!


Looking forward to seeing how this plays out, imagining justice being served.

We'll see, hope springs eternal.

[Gannon]

Here it is:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...n-Vatican.html

[Stosh]

Sounds like a recycler's dream.

Father Gabriele Amorth said people who are possessed by Satan vomit shards of glass and pieces of iron.

[Gannon]

I guess I've only met those inhabited by lesser demons then...

[maxx]

There are some people whose minds are so deeply ensconced in the dark ages they should be locked up. This character is the Catholic Church's worst example of public relations or he should be if there weren't so many other dark ages minds who think the same way. It's a wonder we make any progress at all with such thinking.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "There are some people whose minds are so deeply ensconced"

You're surrounded by people of faith, they're everywhere.. boo!..

[Ravine]

Still waiting to hear what "God's dirty work" means and how-- whatever it is-- it relates to this business.

[maxx]

Quote: "There are some people whose minds are so deeply ensconced"

You're surrounded by people of faith, they're everywhere.. boo!..

I'm glad you see the connection between "people of faith" and dark ages minds.

[Gannon]

There are some people whose minds are so deeply ensconced in the dark ages they should be locked up. This character is the Catholic Church's worst example of public relations or he should be if there weren't so many other dark ages minds who think the same way. It's a wonder we make any progress at all with such thinking.

I can assure you that angels and demons are quite real, if outside the perception of our blatant five senses. They haven't gone away...only humankind's understanding of them has faded, and with the advent of science's attempted lockhold on our psyches [[the abomination of mind over spirit)...it has become ridiculous to mention anything of these in polite society. Oh well.



Ravine,

I have come to the understanding that the Maker has a great sense of humor, and revels in turning things designed by His [[Hers, Its) enemy [[and those other sentient angelic beings who chose to leave the Maker's direct presence) for division, distraction, and destruction around for roughly a thousand times more positive and constructive and good.

In other words, God LOVES to work things out for good, and it is usually proportioned WAY more than the original evil design. Amplified, even.


I fell quite strongly that while the Maker is 'in charge' throughout the universe, in the rare instance of our planetary experience, his nemesis gets to run the show. It is very evident to me that the trends are negative in all things on the Earth. Specifically with the dominant species, we cannot easily keep and hold onto good habits, while bad habits linger for WAY longer than they are welcome.

There is more to it, but I have little time to type today. Suffice to say that in my studying of all the mythologies of the world [[coupled with my experiences), I've concluded that they all exist to teach us about that which we cannot perceive, about things beyond our 5-'blatant' sensory limits of this 3d-linear time existence we all share. We all have senses beyond those mere five, but have been groomed over centuries to doubt and then ignore them...and the 60-cycle electrical grid [[which happens to be the 8th harmonic of the Earth's base frequency of electromagnetic 'heartbeat' or synchronization signal, called the Schumann Resonance) does a fantastic job of capping off our more ethereal capabilities as mere humans under and within the Godlike Being...Maker of it all.


Cheers

[Gannon]

So, God's Dirty Work is that which He delegates to the Devil or 'allows', for whatever reason and/or motivation. At this juncture, I am pretty sure it is just a grand wager, yet the Maker stacked the deck. We just don't quite see it that way, overall, at least not yet.

[Stosh]

So, God's Dirty Work is that which He delegates to the Devil or 'allows', for whatever reason and/or motivation. At this juncture, I am pretty sure it is just a grand wager, yet the Maker stacked the deck. We just don't quite see it that way, overall, at least not yet.

Hmmm. Some religionists have stated that the Devil created marijuana.

Or possibly God created marijuana, but the devil makes you smoke it...

[maxx]

Gannon:
What evidence do you have for these additional senses? Our electrical grid is a modern invention and yet the oracle at Delphi couched her prophecies in ambiguity rather than giving a direct prediction.

[rb336]

Quote: "There are some people whose minds are so deeply ensconced"

You're surrounded by people of faith, they're everywhere.. boo!..

not the same as being ensconced in the dark ages

[Gannon]

Maxx,

The best proof I have of their existence AND the manipulation of such can be found in a study of Extremely Low-Frequency ElectroMagnetic Radiation and any/all human interaction with such...coupled perhaps with a study of the octave structure of each sense's perceptive range [[see if you can spot the trend and extrapolate).

Every time you bump into a Top Secret restriction, do a search on research university abstracts on some of the more esoteric terms in the stuff you CAN find...and take specific note of the studies that are not accessible to anyone without clearance. There will be many of them, I've found that universities will list the titles and topics of studies that are actually Top Secret in their abstract collections.


Go on from there...tread with care. But know there is a reason they've done everything they can through the media and traditional schooling to influence everyone away from any serious study of these things, hell not even a casual consideration can be tolerated! We are programmed to consider any studies of even the Sixth Sense ridiculous.

At our cores, we all know that is not the case. The more honest amongst us admit it.


Cheers, and NO, I don't know exactly who 'they' are. Heh.

[Gannon]

Hmmm. Some religionists have stated that the Devil created marijuana.

Or possibly God created marijuana, but the devil makes you smoke it...

I understand you're trying lamely to make a dismissive joke about the conversation, but I'll take this opportunity to make commentary that will likely further inflame someone's psyche!


I don't think the Devil can create life.

I'd go for: the Creator fashioned hemp for any one of a number of positive purposes to later be discovered [[hopefully) by the second of sentient beings loosed upon creation. Perhaps all the uses were taught directly by this Creator to both the angels and humankind...but, yanno, it's been a long time. Some forget.

Mythological history includes the possibility [[and even probability) that Nature Itself communicated the uses for each plant, indicating that Creation Itself can be the mouth of the Creator or some facet of the Creator bumping into this 3d-linear time 'reality'. Humankind has nearly lost the ability to hear this...but individuals like Derrick Jensen encourage me that not all ignore what they CAN still perceive.

Mere humankind is allowed [[through the first gift of creation for sentient beings of Free Will) to not forget anything it was taught, and to use anything and everything provided by Mother Nature to its benefit...as long as none are injured in the process. We seem to often ignore that last part, unfortunately.

For whatever reason, as with most things seemingly designed for good...some force has done an admirable job making this plant relatively unlikely to be used completely in any of its forms...especially during these past two generations!

The mere human machine has been toyed with and teased, by making hemp falsely considered taboo, nearly guaranteeing that it will be transferred and consumed in situations where it is least likely to be used positively. We won't even get into the myriad of other uses for this plant, beyond human medicine.


It may be merely an easy assumption to attribute this tainting and twisting of such a wonderful portion of creation to the Devil, or it may be the direct and complete truth. At this juncture I have no definitive proof either way...but I lean towards blaming the Devil because it is at least great fun to see how people react to the reminder that something like this being HAS to exist to explain much of our present 'reality'. [[doesn't make any of us less responsible for the choices we make and our actions, though, the Devil cannot make anyone do anything)

Plus, I'm more comfortable then, having everything a prayer's request away from a solution...leaving the Maker of All Things in control, ultimately. Because I really and truly believe that is the case, no matter the momentary current evidence to the contrary! Everything has its time...and seasons change.


Cheers

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "I'm glad you see the connection between "people of faith" and dark ages minds."

No, I just get a big kick out of close minded self perceived scholars. I think in retrospect man is in the dark ages, all men. [[and women). We don't really know very much. We are a sub-micron 57 mile layer of life on a tiny grain of sand by comparison, even in our own light-years across solar system. So whatcha really know?

[maxx]

Gannon wrote: The best proof I have of their existence AND the manipulation of such can be found in a study of Extremely Low-Frequency ElectroMagnetic Radiation and any/all human interaction with such...coupled perhaps with a study of the octave structure of each sense's perceptive range [[see if you can spot the trend and extrapolate).

maxx: Whose study? The Pentagon's interest and money spent on ESP is no secret.

G: But know there is a reason they've done everything they can through the media and traditional schooling to influence everyone away from any serious study of these things, hell not even a casual consideration can be tolerated! We are programmed to consider any studies of even the Sixth Sense ridiculous.
maxx: I thought ESP was a skill you developed through practice not studying about it. You know, like riding a bicycle.

G:Cheers, and NO, I don't know exactly who 'they' are. Heh.

maxx: Yes, there is a touch of the paranoid about what you're saying, but just because you're paranoid doesn't mean "they're" not out to get you. I am more concerned with the health impacts of ELF.

[maxx]

Gannon: I lean towards blaming the Devil because it is at least great fun to see how people react to the reminder that something like this being HAS to exist to explain much of our present 'reality'. [[doesn't make any of us less responsible for the choices we make and our actions, though, the Devil cannot make anyone do anything).

maxx: Are you serious? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth saying that an evil spirit HAS to exist to explain the evil in the world today and at the same time saying that people are still responsible. Why does there have to be a devil? Do you honestly think that people are incapable of coming up with the ideas of war and torture and greed on their own?

G: Plus, I'm more comfortable then, having everything a prayer's request away from a solution...leaving the Maker of All Things in control, ultimately. Because I really and truly believe that is the case, no matter the momentary current evidence to the contrary! Everything has its time...and seasons change.

maxx: I'm sure it's very comforting for the people who died during the 400 years of the black death to know that eventually "the creator" enlightened us as to its causes.

[Gannon]

It is only a problem if you deny the truth of re-incarnation.

Death is the release, but we should not seek it ourselves.


This lifetime is not all there is for our souls.

Anyone who gets close to the Maker knows that the tangible stuff we consider all of life is merely icing on a WAY more incredible creation cake...our five blatant senses led by our egos obscure the rest of the story.

Our leaders have done a wonderful job instilling fear and worse in our collective psyche, keeping many from even KNOWING that enlightenment is even possible, let alone probable for any and all who seek, ask, and knock...CONTINUALLY...until there is some response from the 'Other' beyond.

[Gannon]

maxx: Are you serious? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth saying that an evil spirit HAS to exist to explain the evil in the world today and at the same time saying that people are still responsible. Why does there have to be a devil? Do you honestly think that people are incapable of coming up with the ideas of war and torture and greed on their own?

Maxx, sorry your linear mind cannot keep up with my meanderings.

That is not what I said, it is only what you misunderstood.


Unseen or Unidentified Beings exist, mostly outside our VERY limited merely-human perception. Of this there is little doubt...there is record of it back to some of the earliest cave drawings and indeed throughout time until ONLY the modern age, as science took hold of the human psyche.

It seems that at least a third, by the measure of some of the mythologies, of these are not pleasant or benign...but rather meddling spirits, for whatever reasons they have.

Apparently they have limitations on what they can actually DO in our realm of perception, it seems they can do anything but directly contact us [[without our invitation), and the term 'temptation' was fashioned to include them.

But they cannot make anyone do anything, any evil on this Earth...perpetrated through humans, IS ultimately the responsibility of the one who acted, not the one who whispered the concept in the person's ear, or introduced the new action to human repertoire.

That doesn't imply that humans cannot exceed what these evil angelic host suggest.


We are amplifiers and magnifiers of everything we put our focus on. We have total and complete Free Will, and can do whatever we choose. That doesn't make whatever we choose to do right and good, and the tendencies of humanity seem to take one of two paths.

Stasis leaning towards the good, often even denying the existence of evil.

Then the 'Do What Thy Wilt' group, whose egos take them to depths previously undredged.



I know I'm being simplistic...but mere humans are the superior species on this planet, right? I am ONLY looking at the evidence we leave behind. We seem to collectively lean towards the negative, if only in an entropic way...systems naturally degrade if energy is not put into them.


I am only speaking this for the lower 3-dimensions stuck in linear time, too...that is the only frame of reference we share. There ARE higher-evolved beings on the Earth right now who eagerly encourage everyone to get beyond these limitations, because above and beyond this matrix hologram that we consider everything...it is all Love.


And that is our destiny. Why wrestle and fight it? Oh, because you don't understand your OWN dualistic nature...yin/yang with a hint of more between them. I'm only trying to get everyone PAST this diametric, and into the better place beyond, but it can ONLY happen with the admission that we are all capable of the greatest evil imaginable as well as the greatest good.

If you don't admit you CAN do wrong, you will always be plagued with that probability, ignorantly. It seems that only then can one freely express our co-creating ability to do really right, too.


Cheers

[Danny]

Jesus sez...


Upon this rock, I will build a church and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it.'

The Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church went through its political power from the Roman Empire under Constantine to the Rennaisance of Martin Luther. Today dominant religion have is just in the peace making business. The Roman Catholic Church and the Vatican are having a tough time investigating the immoral sexual abuse cases from many bishops and cardinals who perform these sinful acts from young boys. There are some blasphemers and blacksliders inside the many churches. But these acts must be clean up right away before lose faith in righteous and lost. I would like to see the Roman Catholic Church get rid of those iconoclasts, saying 'Hail Mary, mother of Grace, protects us from all sins,' and just directly pray to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.


The Gates of Hell may not destroy the church, but Satan can bring his angels to spy, penetrate and mess it up from inside the tabernacle. It's up the God's Children to say Satan's plot and cleanse the church by its holy place. God will listen to those who will get closer to him.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Jesus sez...

' Anyone who calls me LORD, LORD and not doing his work will not even know me.'


Neda Soltani may be a Muslim, but she calls to god for help.

[Big Dog]

Satan has a home in the catholic church. He has snared many. Do some research. Pope Pius 12, Hitlers pope. Todays pope, and the cover up.
A National Review Board was established led by lay people to monitor progress and granted access to church files for researchers from the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
They found that more than 4,392 Catholic priests and deacons sexually abused at least 10,677 American children between 1950 and 2002.

A further study showed 3,091 abusive clergy and 4,568 victims were identified from 2004 through 2009, according to a report published last month.

Yes, satan loves the catholic church. Research it's history.

[maxx]

Gannon: It is only a problem if you deny the truth of re-incarnation.

maxx; That's a belief, not truth.

Gannon: Unseen or Unidentified Beings exist, mostly outside our VERY limited merely-human perception. Of this there is little doubt...there is record of it back to some of the earliest cave drawings and indeed throughout time until ONLY the modern age, as science took hold of the human psyche.

maxx: How are those cave drawings identified as "unseen beings"? It sounds like you think the Nazca earth drawings are runways for flying saucers.

Gannon:It seems that at least a third, by the measure of some of the mythologies, of these are not pleasant or benign...but rather meddling spirits, for whatever reasons they have.

maxx: You call them mythologies and yet you declare that these mythological beings really exist. Belief in something does not equal its existence.

G: pparently they have limitations on what they can actually DO in our realm of perception, it seems they can do anything but directly contact us [[without our invitation), and the term 'temptation' was fashioned to include them.

But they cannot make anyone do anything, any evil on this Earth...perpetrated through humans, IS ultimately the responsibility of the one who acted, not the one who whispered the concept in the person's ear, or introduced the new action to human repertoire.

maxx: What is the source of all this?

G: We are amplifiers and magnifiers of everything we put our focus on

maxx: Please explain. It sounds like you are saying that we are causing the expansion of the universe by our observation of it.

G: There ARE higher-evolved beings on the Earth right now who eagerly encourage everyone to get beyond these limitations,..

maxx: Where 's your evidence for this?

G: I'm only trying to get everyone PAST this diametric, and into the better place beyond, but it can ONLY happen with the admission that we are all capable of the greatest evil imaginable as well as the greatest good.

maxx: If we are capable of the greatest evil imaginable, and I guess I agree with this although I'm not sure what the greatest evil imaginable is, then what do we need with devils?

G: Anyone who gets close to the Maker knows that the tangible stuff we consider all of life is merely icing on a WAY more incredible creation cake.

maxx: And, of course, you have a personal telephone connection to the Maker. So, do you have plans for your next incarnation or are you just blissed out with the prospect of being part of any form of matter?

[maxx]

Big Dog: Yes, satan loves the catholic church. Research it's history.

maxx: Why blame some devil? Don't you think people are capable of such acts without satanic possession?
Doesn't it get the human beings off the hook?

[Gannon]

Because I've SEEN demonic possession, and have then seen it cured and/or resolved.


Literally and specifically. More than once over twenty years.



Why do you put such effort into giving these beings a pass? Why do you want to ignore them...effectively letting them act with impunity?!

Why do their work for them?


As for the 'hook', as I said very clearly...no matter what, human beings are responsible for the things they choose to do [[and what they choose NOT to do). Always.

Why is that something you cannot grasp? Why do you revisit the same concepts, seeking a loophole?!