who are the Palestinians?

[littlebuddy]

A Homeland for the Palestinians?

The need and justification of a “Palestinian homeland� has been repeated so often and so insistently that people all over the world have come to accept it as an inevitability. That “homeland,� it is generally agreed, would consist of the Gaza Strip and most of Judea/Samaria, generally referred to as the “West Bank.� Even many good people in the U.S. and even our president, a well-intentioned man, advocate a “homeland,� a Palestinian state, at the end of the so-called “road map.�?

What are the facts?

An unwarranted request. There is no such thing as a “Palestinian people.� That is a concept that, by the drumbeat of incessant propaganda, has been foisted on the world. The so-called Palestinians are the same Arabs that live in Syria, Jordan and Lebanon. Never at any time in history did the “Palestinians� have a homeland, nor did they ever demand one.
In 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted to set up both a Jewish and an Arab state within the borders of the territories. The Arabs were allotted three contiguous areas and the enclave of the city of Jaffa. The Jews were allotted three discontiguous areas. Jerusalem was to be an international city. In order to get their homeland, the Jews reluctantly accepted the unfavorable deal. The Arabs rejected it out of hand and instead invaded the nascent Jewish state with the armies of six nations. The ragtag Jewish forces decisively defeated the aggressors and stayed in control of most of the area. Egypt retained control of the Gaza Strip, and Jordan occupied Judea/Samaria [[the “West Bank�). Had the Arabs accepted the United Nations partition plan, they would have had their “Palestinian homeland� for almost 60 years. They spurned the opportunity when it was available to them.
For nineteen years, until the Six-Day War, the territories involved were under the control of Jordan and Egypt. Never during those years was there ever a demand for a “Palestinian homeland.� Only after the Six-Day War in 1967, when the territories reverted to Israeli control, did the insistent clamor for a “Palestinian homeland� arise.
Although the Israelis would probably be glad to get rid of those bothersome and rebellious people, it is regrettably not that simple. The declared goal of the Arabs, a goal never rescinded, is the destruction of Israel. Were they granted an independent state, it would geographically and strategically dominate all of Israel. Within a very short time, this “Palestinian homeland� would be bristling with the most advanced weaponry, in all likelihood including weapons of mass destruction. Arab armies would be invited to participate in what they would hope to be the final onslaught against Israel and against the hated Jews.
How about other nationalities that yearn for a homeland, for their own state? There are first of all the Basques, the vast majority of whom live in the northern region of Spain. They are a unique people, with a language and a culture that has no relationship to anything else in the world. They have been fighting to become liberated. But Spain – most vociferous in the promotion of a “Palestinian homeland� – refuses that. An independent Basque homeland would not endanger Spain in any way. But does the world, does the UN support the Basques in their quest for independence? Of course not!
Or take the Kurds. They are a distinct group. They live in a land that is part of Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria, and Armenia. They have been fighting for independence for centuries, but it has never been granted. An independent Kurdestan would not endanger the countries that now occupy it. But does the world, does the UN support the Kurds in their quest for independence? Of course not!
And then there are the Tibetans. They are a distinct people, unique in language and religion. They have been annexed by China, which has flooded the country with its “settlers.� The Chinese are fully in the process of making Tibet into an integral part of China. Clearly, an independent Tibet would not be any existential threat to China. But does the world, does the UN support the Tibetans in their quest for independence? Of course not!
The quest for an independent homeland for the Palestinians is unwarranted because the Palestinians are not a distinct people which never had or even claimed such a homeland, and because the creation of such a homeland would be an existential threat to Israel. Both the world and especially the Europeans don’t really care about self-determination – they don’t lose any sleep over the Basques, the Kurds, the Tibetans or others who yearn for a homeland. They care about their own political and economic interests, which they cloak in the language of political morality. And of course, there are quite a few who wouldn’t shed a tear if, at the end of the day, Israel were indeed wiped from the face of the earth.

[Pam]

If you are going to cut and paste, you are supposed to give a link or a source.

[Papasito]

ogod, youre going to send Gibran on a rampage

[ejames01]

The Trolls are busy today....

[gibran]

simple answer to your question: People

I will not engage in my usually long lecture on the value of Israel and Palestinians as viewed by people who care about humanity...I won't respond to the revisionist and bigoted history that does not recognize Holocaust survivors or Palestinians... I Wont even ask if you really understand the history...

and I will pray that you really seek peace for the people of the holy land..all people...

and yes Virgina or whoever you are there really were people living in the middle-east before 1947...and yes Virgina they were Jewish and christian and Muslim....and yes Virgina there was a Palestinian people there [[maybe not an tooth fairy)....and someday littlebuddy when you discover the world is not flat you may understand this....until then keep posting inaccurate historical accounts and hoping someone will buy it...but for those who long for the day when Israel and Palestine are safe and secure and recognize people like you stand in the way...we will continue to work towards that.

Papa: It should all of us....who care about the children...
ogod, youre going to send Gibran on a rampage

[gibran]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1152405.html

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1145224.html


here are some views that may open your eyes little buddy..and if i was to harsh sorry...I just would like to see the blind followers of policies open their eyes..but I guess just like Sarah Palin [[wearing an Israeli Flag pin recently)....those who view one people better than another are doomed to live in a world of war and strife...but for some who follow do unto others as you would do onto yourself..it's a little more challenging...

[gazhekwe]

Palestine refers to a geographic area, part of which was subsumed into the state of Israel when it was formed by a vote of the UN agreeing to partition of the territory. Palestinians include all people who lived in that territory. Those displaced and disenfranchised are the Arab people who live in the new state of Israel and the adjoining lands controlled by Israel. Not all Palestinians are in that group, but that is the group that is most often referred to by that term.

[Detroitnerd]

That post is as disgusting as any denying that the Nazis killed millions of people in death camps. A new low, littlebuddy.

[gibran]

i find it interesting that in holy week a people would try to bait a fight...here is a reference that should make things clear for u....

<LI class=author>Judah L. Magnes <LI class=sourceInfo>Foreign Affairs, Vol. 21, No. 2 [[Jan., 1943), pp. 239-249
[[article consists of 11 pages) Published by: Council on Foreign Relations
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/20029221

[Sstashmoo]

We're all God's people now. This chosen people bit was the Old Testament, the New testament pretty much clarifies God's preference, one over the other, he doesn't have one. This slaughtering of innocent Men, women and children for the sake of some material "place" in this world, is off the charts wrong. Make Israel and Jerusalem, Gaza, West bank, an international retreat, nobody can live there.

Not to be an ass about this, but you ask "who are the Palestinians?". It could be asked "Who are the Jews?" Aren't we all supposed to be all one people in the eyes of God? All sinners, all fall short, no one come to the father except by him? Anything else is exclusionary, bigoted and racist.

[Papasito]

Papa: It should all of us....who care about the children...
ogod, youre going to send Gibran on a rampage

Gibran, I was just funnin' ya
I know this is a big topic for you

I think you are a good guy, and I totally respect your input when the Israel/Palestine thing comes up.

[gibran]

Gibran, I was just funnin' ya
I know this is a big topic for you

I think you are a good guy, and I totally respect your input when the Israel/Palestine thing comes up.

oh Papa I knew that...I think you are good too....but your right I always swallow the bait LOL....I hope that people see you can pull for a peaceful resolution... I have studied this conflict for years..and it irks me to see posting of that sort..you do read me...well

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36140329...deastn_africa/

[Papasito]

I really dont understand why Israel doesn't just border of the land, let 'em have it and be done with it. This situation has been dragged on long enough.

[Hermod]

I always thought that the "Palestinians" were the "Philistines" that the Hebrews in the Old Testament kept fighting all of the time.

[gibran]

Hermod ...they are a mixed group of peoples ,,,,yes some are tribes of the bible, some were converted from Christianity and even maybe a small fragment were converted from Judeism....as Islam spread eastward...the reality is after the roman empire fell.. the areas became the battle group of many,,,who really knows..it is sad that many of them can be considered semite....and are in reality cousins.

http://www.mideastweb.org/palmaps.htm

[gibran]

Photo © Jack Hazut
Dolmen, Bronze Age graves, Golan Heights
[[2200-2000 BC)

The history of the area is complex due to the many tribes and [[later) nations that settled, conquered and ruled, traded there or moved through: Canaanites, Philistines, Samaritans, Nabataeans, Greeks, Romans, Muslims and Christians.
In pre-Biblical times, the area was known as the Land of Canaan and had been a collection of city-states, tributary to the Egyptian Pharoah, as attested to in the Tel-El Amarna tablets. The breakup of the Egyptian empire beginning about 1500 BC made possible the invasion of the Israelites. According to Jewish tradition, twelve tribes entered Canaan from Egypt and conquered it, led by Moses approximately 1240-1200 BC. Historical evidence from the Amarna tablets suggests that there were already 'apiru' [[Hebrews) among the Canaanites in the time of Egyptian rule.
Photo © Jack Hazut
Hatzor, main Canaanite city, 2nd millennium BC

During the final years of the Late Bronze Age, the Philistines also invaded Canaan [[1500 - 1200 BC). Other evidence suggests that around 1200 BC, semi-nomads from the desert fringes to the east, joined by elements from Anatolia, the Aegean, and the south, possibly including Egypt, began to settle in the hill country of Canaan. A large proportion - probably a majority of this population - were refugees from the Canaanite city states, destroyed by the Egyptians in one of their periodic invasions.
The Biblical account continues with the rise of an Israelite kingdom, first under Saul and then under David at about 1000 BC, the date of David's conquest of Jerusalem.
The biblical accounts have not been confirmed by archeology and the exact dividing line between myth, legend, and history remains unknown. Generally the historical record begins with the destruction of the northern Israelite capital at Samaria in 772 BC by Assyrians, and the conquering of Judah's [[southern Israelites) capital at Jerusalem in 586 BC by Babylonians who destroyed the First Temple.

[Papasito]

http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideast...es/001114.html

was interesting.

[gazhekwe]

Interesting read. Of course, you realize that those affected are likely not a majority of Palestinians or Gaza residents. As in Detroit, not everyone lives in the Pointes or dines frequently at the Whitney.

It is interesting to note that Detroit proper has the same exact area as Gaza, 360 sq km, 139 sq mi. Gaza's population according to recent estimates is 1,604,238. Detroit is hovering around 900,000. Detroit does have some high end facilities like the aforementioned Whitney, the Yacht Club, Rattlesnake Club, Indian Village, Palmer Woods. The people who frequent these places and live in those homes are not representative of Detroit as a whole, and they are ignored in media reports about Detroit. See any parallels?

[Sstashmoo]

Israeli attacks on those aid ships yesterday may turn into a major sh*tstorm. Turkey, Israel's only Muslim friend in the region is pulling their ambassador and many other things out of Israel immediately. They are demanding that we do something. Moscow, the EU they are all upset with Israel and us. The UN in launching an investigation, Got a feeling something is about to happen.

The attacks that took place in international waters by a non NATO member against an NATO member is an automatic act of war. The Whitehouse is dragging their feet and afraid to speak as usual. Our secretary of state Hillary is non existent- as usual.

[gibran]

spin spin spin....while the real issues are swept under the carpet [[conditions in Gaza)...the reality is that we won't see anything but the IDF version of events...I did hear from a Israeli activist that a young American women was hit by a tear gas canister in the face and lost an eye...but the truth will not be found as long as those who investigate are not allowed total access and transparency....remember how Goldstone's report was treated.

The spin is " these people were terrorists [[ including the eighty year old holocaust survivor) looking for a confrontation [[what activists don't), taking weapons into Gaza [[like food and contruction materials) to launch rockets at Israel... or if we let this group in others will follow [[like NGO's and other aide agencies)... besides they [[the commandos) were not outside the laws of international orders and didn't have any alternatives [[like escorting to ports) ...the 2000 blogger paid by AIPAC and Likud are spinning this well...

though some of those Turks were reportedly less than passive and were spoiling for a fight [[they got it...but according to some on the boat was only after they saw a person shot) ...but I will wait til all the tapes are examined [[if ever) and we are only seeing the IDF [[edited piece). we should at least see what was recorded prior to the blocking of communication by Israel [[how can they do that anyway?) during the initial moments of this tragedy ...
the world is watching and waiting ...Israel is it's own worst enemy at times and while they have the right to defend themselves...whose going to defend them from themselves ....

There are many brave Israelis out there and they are shaking their heads tonight....and as they are truly under siege from their right wing extremists in their own government and their message of coexistence should be heeded by all... besides that Palestinians who have been protesting with non-violence [[not hamas) has been met with brutality [[that we have seen again and again in foreign coverage) and we don't see that here.

We have to view all children in the middle-east as people/children that have value [[don't say Muslims don't, because both siodes have blood on their hands).

[gibran]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Gross : know your sources....

hardly biased eh....i challenge anyone to go to gaza and then get back to me....

oh that's right we couldnt get into Gaza ...it's blocked...and who would like to see 60 % children suffering from PTSD symptoms [[WHO)...that is not the story.....maybe 25 % true.

here is the Free gaza website...http://www.freegaza.org/en/about-us/...-are/721-staff

here is the hope for a future; http://cfpeace.org/#

ANEA reports:

8 out of 10 Gazans depend on foreign aid to survive.
The World Food Program says Gaza requires a minimum of 400 trucks a day to meet basic nutritional needs - yet an average of just 171 trucks worth of supplies enters Gaza every week,
Clothes that were held in the port of Ashdod for over a year were released into Gaza but arrived covered with mold and mildew, unusable.
95% of Gaza's water fails World Health Organization standards leaving thousands of newborns at risk of poisoning.
Anemia for children under the age of 5 is estimated at 48%.
75 million liters of untreated sewage are pumped into the Mediterranean Sea every day - because piping and spare parts are not permitted.

from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-ros..._b_597953.html