Detroit's motto

**Huggybear** · March-24-10, 10:58 PM

Is it speramus meliora [[indicative: "we hope for better things")

Or sperimus meliora [[hortatory subjunctive: "let us hope for better things")?

I've seen it written both ways. CAYMC has the first version; one of the plaques on a Belle Isle footbridge has the second. Old seals seem to have the first version.

Either would be correct in Latin, but I guess the question is: which is more in line with the attitude of people here? And was the Belle Isle version the product of a person's learning the phrase in Latin, remembering it in English, and then working his way back to Latin?

**Nicodeme** · March-25-10, 01:23 AM

I'd go with A and not I. The flag and city seal both have the A version, plus it sounds more optimistic.

**gnome** · March-25-10, 06:42 AM

Among his many talents, fellow forumer, Danny is a Latin scholar and expert in the Motto. Once he gets a chance, I'm sure he'll chime in and give you more info than you need.

Retroit · March-25-10, 07:40 AM

It sounds like a disease a man might get.

**canuck** · March-25-10, 08:01 AM

Nothing Detroit Hope Hospital physicians can't cure.

**dtowncitylover** · March-25-10, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Retroit

It sounds like a disease a man might get.

Lol. But could you imagine if this was a disease and getting diagnosed with the first one, a life-threatening 6-month-to-live type deal, but then it really turns out to be the second one, a non-life threatening, just take these pills and you're all better deal? Just because of one vowel!

**English** · March-25-10, 09:02 AM

I think it's just beautiful. I love words and language, and the imagery suited the historical moment in which it was written. Thanks, Father Richard.

I also love the way that Dudley Randall remixed it almost 200 years later: "Cities have died, have burned/Yet phoenix-like, returned."

**Ray1936** · March-25-10, 01:17 PM

"hortatory subjunctive"

I just had a flash on why I flunked HS Latin. And probably never fared very well in English, either..........

Retroit · March-25-10, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

"hortatory subjunctive"

Is that what police call a man who stops his car to talk to a woman standing on the corner in a mini-skirt?

Retroit · March-25-10, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Lol. But could you imagine if this was a disease and getting diagnosed with the first one, a life-threatening 6-month-to-live type deal, but then it really turns out to be the second one, a non-life threatening, just take these pills and you're all better deal? Just because of one vowel!

It's better than having the wrong leg amputated.

...I think.