Health Care and Detroit: Killed By Government

[Detroitnerd]

It takes a community to keep itself clean. To help thy neighbor. To call the police when something fishy is going on next door. To report the drug dealer down the block. To tear down the burned out house...... or construct the next park in its place. Or how about to raise ones kids. To pay your taxes. Keep your lawn cut. Drive responsibly. Vote. Make an educated vote. Help your elderly neighbor. Car pool. Behave responsibly in public. Need I go on?

I can't figure out if you're serious or not. It almost seems as if you're trying to find a PC way to wag your finger at Detroit [[and other communities).

But the rub with telling people to "get their act together" is that it's easy to dismiss those people after you say that. In other words, it's a way of dismissing regional solutions where we all come together and solve our problems. Saying that you'd be glad to aid a suffering city -- as soon as its residents start behaving more responsibly -- is a recipe for doing nothing at all. Because, whether we're willing to admit it or not, we have determined that certain cities are going to be repositories of those poor enough to never be able to leave them.

You'll often find that responsibility and civic involvement are in direct relation to the thickness of your wallet.

[Bearinabox]

Are you guys blind? I specifically read this posters main point. It unfortunately sailed right over your heads. It's not about the Gov't. It's about the people of the city.

Uh, where did you get that out of this?

Health Care and Detroit: Killed By Government

The collapse of democratic liberal socialism is before us. Detroit is a study in the destructive power of this statism and the repeated government interventions in the civil society.

The collapse of great societies can arrive quite suddenly. Look after your health!

Sure sounds like it's about the government to me.

[Retroit]

Thanks, TKshreve! Now that I know there is one person out there who actually reads and understands my posts, I'll keep posting.

[Retroit]

I can't figure out if you're serious or not. It almost seems as if you're trying to find a PC way to wag your finger at Detroit [[and other communities).

That's the problem. Every time someone states the obvious [[to those of us who understand what makes a good society), they are accused of not being serious, or of wagging their finger, or of dismissing people.

[ghettopalmetto]

That's the problem. Every time someone states the obvious [[to those of us who understand what makes a good society), they are accused of not being serious, or of wagging their finger, or of dismissing people.

If you're so much better than us peons, why don't you start fixing some of these fucking problems instead of complaining about them?

[Retroit]

...we have determined that certain cities are going to be repositories of those poor enough to never be able to leave them.

Who has determined that? You make it sound like suburbanites go around at night to gather the poor people and drag them into Detroit. Have you ever considered that people in some cities take care of each other [[and themselves) instead of waiting for Obama to take care of them?

You'll often find that responsibility and civic involvement are in direct relation to the thickness of your wallet.

Where will we find this? I don't think it has anything to do with wealth. It has to do with people caring about [[not throwing money at) each other and their community. As I've said before, there are Third World cities with better sense of community than Detroit.

[Retroit]

If you're so much better than us peons, why don't you start fixing some of these fucking problems instead of complaining about them?

So you think that the suburbs just magically became the way they are without any community involvement from people like myself? Is this how Detroiters think?

[313WX]

Detroiters still believe that it is the governments' responsibility to improve the city. The truth is that it is not the government that makes a city great, it is the people. And when the people don't even have enough responsibility to take care of themselves and their offspring, then it is no wonder they neglect their neighborhoods and city.

I personally thought the only way one can improve a place is money. The problem is all the money [[by choice) left Detroit for Oakland County long before the city's true decline took place, and that's what ultimately led to its current state. You can have as much governemnt or as many people as you like, if they're all broke you're not going to accomplish much.

[313WX]

As I've said before, there are Third World cities with better sense of community than Detroit.

Define "better sense of community" please...

[EastSider]

If we're trading idiotic economic arguments, take a gander at this load of crap from James K Galbraith

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100322/galbraith

With government, the risk of nonpayment does not exist.

Nor is public debt a burden on future generations.

Granted, it's in The Nation, but still...the man teaches at a public university.

[Retroit]

If criminals stopped committing crimes, it would not cost anything.
If parents did a better job of disciplining their children, it would not cost anything.
If neighbors picked up all the litter in their neighborhood, it would not cost anything.
If students stayed in school until they graduated, it would not cost any extra.
If people stopped having children out of wedlock, or at least without the intention of taking responsibility for them, it would not cost anything.
If people stopped making excuses for friends and family members that prey on others, it will not cost anything.
If people stopped taking drugs, and getting drunk, and smoking, it would not cost anything.

Many immigrants came to this country without a pot to piss in and did so to better themselves, not to be made better by the government. Things started going to pot in Detroit when people began thinking that they have no power to improve their lives and must instead depend on the government to come to the rescue.

"Better sense of community" means neighborhoods where most of the buildings are occupied, people don't live in constant fear, and neighbors are more likely to take care of each other than prey on each other.

[ghettopalmetto]

So you think that the suburbs just magically became the way they are without any community involvement from people like myself? Is this how Detroiters think?

That's a load of shit. People in the suburbs--especially in Detroit--sought geographic problems to dealing with the poor, the disabled, the black, and the undereducated. This mass geographic reallocation of resources was enabled by de jure and de facto policy at all levels of government.

You moved away from the problems you see. Yet it still bothers you enough to whine about it on an internet forum. Who the hell are you to pass judgment on anyone else?

[rooms222]

>>>>>You moved away from the problems you see.

I have noticed that threads about these issues in Metro Detroit are inevitably moved to the non-Detroit forum.......

[RaumVogel]

If criminals stopped committing crimes, it would not cost anything.
If parents did a better job of disciplining their children, it would not cost anything.
If neighbors picked up all the litter in their neighborhood, it would not cost anything.
If students stayed in school until they graduated, it would not cost any extra.
If people stopped having children out of wedlock, or at least without the intention of taking responsibility for them, it would not cost anything.
If people stopped making excuses for friends and family members that prey on others, it will not cost anything.
If people stopped taking drugs, and getting drunk, and smoking, it would not cost anything.

Many immigrants came to this country without a pot to piss in and did so to better themselves, not to be made better by the government. Things started going to pot in Detroit when people began thinking that they have no power to improve their lives and must instead depend on the government to come to the rescue.

"Better sense of community" means neighborhoods where most of the buildings our occupied, people don't live in constant fear, and neighbors are more likely to take care of each other than prey on each other.

All very true,so ya know what I had to do when I found myself broke no matter how hard I worked,and no one seemed to give a $h!t? I moved.

[313WX]

"Better sense of community" means neighborhoods where most of the buildings our occupied, people don't live in constant fear, and neighbors are more likely to take care of each other than prey on each other.

And Detroit doesn't have this?

And remember you're talking about a 143 sq. mi city with 900,000 people still occupying it.

[noula]

I've not posted here in many years. It was quite a surprise to see all the posts to this thread, most of which are filled with invective!

It is all before us now - our politicians have promised us heaven on earth with all their social programs. The crash of 2008 was the start of a trend, the collapse of big government. Across all levels of government, tax revenues are collapsing. The politicians' promises cannot be met. The sudden elimination of 1/2 of the DPS system is what we will experience in the months and years to come from our programs. We now view these programs as a "right".

Don't kid yourselves, the Canadian health care system is also in a death spiral. Almost every dollar that goes into the system up here is to support union wages, benefits and pensions, all of which are far higher than what can fetched in the private sector. The Canadian system is bereft of new equipment, facilities, innovation and invention. Here in BC, health care costs take up about 40% of the provincial budget. This is projected to increase to 72% of the provincial budget in less than 10 years. Its simply not possible.

My 78 year old mother broke her wrist and fractured her hip a month ago. She waited four days to get a corrective operation in a Toronto triage hospital.

A close freind died in the emergency room of a downtown hospital here in Vancouver. It was a scene out of hell, with over-worked and underpaid doctors and nurses frantically trying to help patients in what I can only describe as utterly horrible conditions. There was little security to protect them from all the lunatic drug addicts who were prowling the ward with knifes and other weapons looking for booty to steal.

The horrors abound. I know many folks who cannot get a family doctor. There simply are not enough of them around. Rationing by government.

We had a perfectly good health care system here in Canada prior to 1966 with the introduction of socialized medicine. It was based on charity and came from the people. In general, today Canadians are in denial of their history and that their government system is collapsing.

But reading the posts in this thread, it seems a common view that we cannot trust the people to look after themselves. Well, the collapse of big government and the hyperinflationary tsunami coming our way will do doubt change a lot of attitudes.

Tea bagger? Is that not a derogatory term?

[oladub]

noula, It could be worse. You could have a health care system in which lawyers prowl the wards terrorizing doctors, health care decisions are made in far away Ottawa by lobbyists, health care winds up costing twice as much, and the government blames everything that goes wrong on John Diefenbaker.

[noula]

oladub,

Granted, but will this "reform" correct these issues or make them worse? I can only imagine this reform will be most beneficial to Big Pharma, tort lawyers and financial institutions.

Over the years our democracy has morphed into corporatism - the merger of big government, big business with a big propaganda machine. Musollini originally coined the term. It is also known as facism and national-socialism.

I have no faith Washington or Ottawa will do anything good for the people. Its not much more than a den of whores.

[Jimaz]

I've not posted here in many years.

First Name
Nick
City
Vancouver
State / Province
BC
Nation / Country
Canada
Occupation and or Avocation
Exec
Join Date
August 8th, 2009
Total Posts
5

Why are there so many deceptive posts here all of a sudden?

[noula]

Jimaz,

Deceptive? You must have a lot of time on your hands.

[Jimaz]

Join Date
August 8th, 2009
Not too many years. Explain?

[Haikoont]

I've not posted here in many years.

Well, except for this one back in November:

November 13th, 2009, 03:12 AM
Stosh is bang-on! We are witnessing the beginning of the end of big government. Our elite masters have encouraged the departure of America's once great industrial base to foreign climes. The productive tax base remains in serious decline and this too may accelerate.

Socialism ends when government runs out of other peoples money to spend [[i.e the productive sector). We are at that point. The parasites are in panic. Follow long-term interest rates and the ever rising number of dollars to buy an ounce of gold.

Just look at Detroit's geographical location. No wonder it was such an economic dynamo. It'll come back once the governments fail and the private sector is freed.

[noula]

we all had to re-register our handles when Lowell launched the new message board.

You must be a newbie

[Bearinabox]

Tea bagger? Is that not a derogatory term?

It certainly is. Well-deserved, too. Now please go away.

[Retroit]

It certainly is. Well-deserved, too. Now please go away.

Yeah, we can't handle the truth. Bearinabox, if you have some counterargument to what others have to say, please share it with us. Lately, your one line dismissive remarks have served only to prove the lack of countervailing evidence.

Thank you, noula, for sharing your experiences with the Canadian "health" care system. It confirms what my Canadian relatives have been saying all along.