People Mover & safety at night?

[English]

Tonight, I went down to the D to hang out with a couple of grad school girlfriends who are from the South Side of Chicago and south central L.A, respectively. We ended up exploring downtown using the People Mover... and I almost had my bag snatched for the first time in my life. My friend from South Side Chicago quickly moved between me and the young dude who was just about to go for it. There were other people in the car, but he seemed absolutely determined, like he had nothing to lose.

I've ridden the People Mover since its inception, without any thought of the time of day, and without incident. Has something changed that I should know about? I'm not used to being treated like a mark, especially not on Detroit public transportation. I didn't have a car until I was 23 and was intimately familiar with both the DOT bus and the People Mover for anything I wanted to get to, day or night. I *always* have taken a bag everywhere I went in Detroit, *everywhere*, and have never been a victim of personal crime.

This left me wondering if I'm an absolute idiot for considering a move back downtown as a single female. My friends, who are no strangers to rough and notorious urban environments, now definitely think so. They say that I've lost the instincts that probably protected me while I treated the city as my oyster in my teens and throughout my 20s, and can't behave the way that I used to, going here, there, and everywhere as night as a woman. My mother just thinks that folks are more desperate than they were in 1990 or 2003, and that I should wait the recession out before renting or buying down that way... "things will turn around, they always do," she says.

What happened has shaken me up pretty badly. I've never felt threatened anywhere in the CBD, ever, in almost 33 years of living. Detroit has always been my haven, the place where I return to recenter no matter how far away I roam. If I have that taken away from me, I'm not sure what I'll do.

[Goose]

you were probably wearing the wrong "colors"......

But my true mission is just revenge
you ain't in my sect, you ain't my friend
wear the wrong color your life could end
homocides my favorite venge

[Gsgeorge]

Sounds like you were just another victim of random crime. And how can that even be the case, he never even got your purse or "really" went for it, as in grabbing it and trying to tear it off you. You were with friends & strangers and he couldn't do crap. I wouldn't be hanging around the DPM at 2AM by yourself, nor should anyone, but when you are with friends or group it is not unsafe. Sorry it happened and thank god it wasn't worse than it could have been. No reason to move away or change your habits. Not to mention, it sounds like it was your time if you have been around the city a lot and used its transit frequently without any incident. It could have happened to anyone in any urban metropolis, male or female. Stay aware of your surroundings & smart about reading people, and don't let your guard down if you sense someone wants something more than the time or directions.

[English]

He did actually go for the bag, but my friend blocked it just as we came to the Fort/Cass stop. He jumped off the PM there, ran, and disappeared. It was around 9:45 pm.

Friends and some family members are really nervous about me moving back down to Detroit because they know that I don't really live with a lot of fear. Just because my older female relatives think that every lady could potentially end up as the missing victim on a true crime show, I refuse to be cloistered just because I'm a single woman, and scared to step outside of my door at night. That just isn't in my personality.

In return, life has been really good to me. I never have been afraid in Detroit or had reason to be. But my friends were shaken up and we're all black women who are from the 'hood. Any time you've got a South Side sista and one from L.A. chattering all the way back to U-M about how I'm gonna get myself into a bind that I can't get out of, then I listen. They say they NEVER go out at night back at home, and that just because I did it when I was 20 or 27, doesn't mean I can get away with it in my 30s or beyond.

Living in Detroit as a young woman in my 20s was glorious. I went to everything from forum gatherings to poetry readings to Detroit Synergy events to political rallies to Noel Night by myself if I couldn't find someone who wanted to go. If I felt like a coney island at Lafayette at 10 pm, I hopped in the car and went for it. If I wanted ice cream, I headed to Astoria. And I'd head to Fifth Ave/Small Plates/Union Street/Traffic Jam/Cass Cafe/anywhere I wanted to at night, without any kind of fear whatsoever. I wouldn't trade a second of my young adulthood, and I would place the fun I had up against any of my friends in bigger or "more exciting" cities -- because the COL was so cheap, I could dine out, go have drinks, go to the museum, or go to shows practically whenever I wanted on a young teacher's salary. I was also a hostess who prided myself on showing my out of town guests a great time. I definitely had a lot of fun.

I was looking forward to living a more mature version of that lifestyle again, but I'm really shaken up tonight. Nothing like this has ever happened to me. I sincerely hope that this isn't a sign or something... my two friends were a little soured on coming to Detroit at night, and it's not like they're sheltered suburban gentleladies, either.

[wolverine]

Pointless to move away. Why even bring it up?? You seem to be quite content with Ann Arbor:

Date: Oct. 9, 2009

Alert ID: 2009-16 / AAPD#09-8158

CRIME ALERT
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Date of Incident: Oct. 9. 2009, about 5:20 a.m.
Location: 700 block of Arbor Street near Packard and State streets [[off campus)
Offense: Home Invasion
Summary: As reported to the Ann Arbor Police, an unknown man entered a student’s apartment, brandished a shot gun and demanded money. He took cash and a Blackberry, and fled on foot. No one was injured.
Suspect: Black male, 6 feet 2 inches, thin build, wearing a black hoodie, black ski mask and black sweatpants.




CRIME ALERT
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Date of Incident: Oct. 24. 2009, just after midnight
Location: Outside LSI Building [[210 Washtenaw Ave. near Huron St.)
Offense: Unarmed robbery
Summary: Student walked out of the LSI Building onto the plaza when he was approached by an unknown man who asked for money. The man took the student's wallet and fled on foot toward Washtenaw. No weapons were seen or implied.
Suspect: Black male, 18-20 years old, 5'9" about 175 pounds, wearing a dark blue coat with a hood and a dark baseball cap.





CRIME ALERT
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Date of Incident: Oct. 31, 2009, 2:17 and 2:19 a.m.
Location: Two incidents next to campus – #1 – Packard at South Division [[west of South Quad)
#2 – South Division at East Jefferson [[one block north)
Offense: Unarmed robbery
Summary: As told to the Ann Arbor Police -- in the first incident, a student was walking toward campus with a friend, when an unknown man approached from behind and grabbed her purse from her shoulder. A few feet ahead, he dumped the purse contents and took a few items before fleeing on foot. In the second incident a couple of minutes later, a student was walking alone, when an unknown man approached from behind, pushed her to the ground, took her purse and fled on foot. No weapons were seen or implied.
Suspect: #1 -- White male, 21 years, 5’6� with thin build and short, straight brown hair, wearing a grey fleece jacket. #2 – White male, 22-28 years, 5’10� with medium build, dark brown hair and clean shaven, wearing a black t-shirt.

Alert Date: Aug. 8, 2009 Alert ID: 2009-14 [[AAPD#09-6029)

CRIME ALERT

UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGANDEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

Date of Incident: Aug. 8, 2009, approximately 2:10 a.m.
Location: Off campus in the 500 block of Linden Street
[[south of Geddes Ave. near Observatory Road)
Offense: Armed robbery
Summary: A female told the Ann Arbor Police that as she was walking along Linden, she was approached by an unknown man, who brandished a small handgun. He then punched her, took her cell phone and fled on foot north to Geddes.
Suspect: As described by Witnesses: Black male, about 22 years, thin build, medium-length braided hair and clean shaven.
UPDATE 6/10/09 - CANCELED - suspect arrested.


Date of Incident: June 7, 2009, about 10:57 a.m.
Location: Southeast corner of Diag between Shapiro Undergraduate Library and the West Hall arch
Offense: Purse snatching
Summary: A student was walking northwest on the Diag from the West Hall arch when she was approached by an unknown man. He asked her what time it was and where she was going. Then he grabbed her purse off her shoulder. After a brief struggle, he fled with her purse southbound on foot. She was not injured.
Suspect [[as described by witness): Black male in his late 20s, about 5’9� with a “fit� build, wearing a black bandana on top of his head, a black shirt with white block letters on the front and black pants.

[English]

Pointless to move away. Why even bring it up?? You seem to be quite content with Ann Arbor.

Okay, that snark is completely fair and totally deserved. Anyone who posts about a personal experience on this forum deserves what they get. Detroit is not for the weak. I found that out tonight, and so did my would-be attacker.

You know what I'm most content with? The fact that I'll never, ever call myself a Wolverine. Like many graduate students from other undergraduate institutions, my loyalties lie elsewhere. Indeed, I'm so detached from this place until I actually wear an OSU t-shirt someone gave me...

...to bed. Because after all, Wolverine territory is a very violent and scary place indeed.

[English]

No reason to move away or change your habits. Not to mention, it sounds like it was your time if you have been around the city a lot and used its transit frequently without any incident. It could have happened to anyone in any urban metropolis, male or female. Stay aware of your surroundings & smart about reading people, and don't let your guard down if you sense someone wants something more than the time or directions.

You know, the more and more I think about it, the more I know that you're right.

Another alteration I'll make is to just stop carrying a bag into the CBD [[what I call a bag = large, oversized purse that can fit small purchases). If you're not carrying anything, it can't be snatched. My mother always fussed at me for wearing anything bigger than a granny-fanny pack downtown and I guess she was vindicated tonight.

[Hermod]

You know what I'm most content with? The fact that I'll never, ever call myself a Wolverine. Like many graduate students from other undergraduate institutions, my loyalties lie elsewhere.

Yes, when I was an undergraduate, I was a fanatic.. I have made all but two of the five-year reunions [[50th reunion coming up next year). I don't really care about the college I got my masters at.

[shovelhead]

English,

Just to make a statement her, no offense please. You, and I [[male, white, late 50's) and others of all makeups are looked upon as prey. To an extent we are. The criminal has to be up on his game at all times, hunting for the "mark". One of the reasons we are the mark is that we are getting older.

Especially to a young person intent upon criminal acts we are seen as weaker. Appearance, dress, our actions and reactions, all signs that they read. The can "take", in their minds they are stronger. If you look like you have something worth taking, they will try.

One of the tenets that is taught in CPL classes, which I have stated here previously is to be AWARE of your surroundings. Do not be complacent, always scan the surrounding area. This applies to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Bloomfield Hills, anywhere. As you experienced, there is no safety in numbers once you are targeted. Your purse snatcher, fast grab and to the exit quickly. Again, he has scoped out his surroundings, he is planning, plotting, looking for a out.

Be aware of your surroundings. Stay aware of what is going on around you. Desperate times make for desperate actions by some persons.

[East Detroit]

I have never seen a crime attempted or otherwise on the PM.

Not sure what the "grad school" thing adds to this conversation.
Should the criminals be wary of or attracted to grad school girlfriends?

[texorama]

I ride the People Mover from time to time and have noticed a diminution in the amount of security, no doubt due to the budget woes that are plaguing every other aspect of city operation. It may be less safe than it once was, and the same can probably be said of the CBD in general. However, I think that all things considered, it's doing remarkably well. Purse snatchings certainly happen on the L on Chicago's South Side, and they happen around central Ann Arbor late at night, too to those who aren't keeping an eye out. I'm an Ann Arborite who spends a good deal of time in Detroit.

[DetroitDad]

Property crime seems to be crime of opportunity, and also seems to be more of an issue when it's not a school night. There is no excuse as to why this happens, but it is something you train to protect yourself from. Luckily, we don't have professional pickpockets here, but it's still not a bad idea to pretend we do.

Anyway, English, isn't helping solve some of Detroit's many problems one of the reasons you want to move back? This kind of petty crime is the result of various problems [[corruption, lack of good leadership, lack of jobs, lack of positive role models, etc.), and contributes to other more serious problems [[the broken window theory also applies to crime).

[pffft]

Luckily, we don't have professional pickpockets here 

Uh, Detroit Dad, yes we pickpockets, you just haven't been hit. Pickpockets don't walk around saying "Hi I don't know if you noticed me but...I'm a pickpocket."

Any time there's a big crowd downtown you have to be aware of where your valuables are. This isn't some big news flash, Detroit's a city. There have always been pickpockets, and people have always been warned to be careful in the city, in crowds.

English, I was warned not to go to U-M because the crime rate is so much worse than in E. Lansing. Wanting to be free to walk around at all times of night, as a solo female, is a pipe dream. There are few places in the 'burbs where you should do that.

Having said that, the PM thief seems particularly brazen, in front of all those people. I agree with your mother that people are a bit more desperate today, and that's reason to up your guard.

[Patrick]

Guess you need to look at living in Royal Oak then

[9936Sussex]

I was born and raised in Detroit, and although I no longer live there I am in the city A LOT. We have season tickets to the Fisher, Hilberry, DIA membership and my husband teaches in the city. Other than having my purse stolen from my desk [[when I worked in the city) I have never been a crime victim. That being said, I am careful--especially right now. I don't carry a purse. I put everything I need in a small change purse [[license, credit card, cash) and put it in an inside buttoned pocket of a coat. The last few times I've been downtown [[within the month, Gem and the Opera House) I have felt nervous walking to and from parking lots. We're cheap, we always park in the cheap lots, which means we walk a bit. Just be careful, and watchful of your surroundings...and don't carry a big purse.

[English]

Thanks everyone. I posted to find out if there's stuff going on that people have heard about, and that I wouldn't hear about on the news. And BTW, I certainly have never posted ANYTHING about Ann Arbor being safe on this forum or anywhere else EVER, so you can miss me with that crap.

I guess I need to just adjust a few things. I'm particularly thinking about laptops -- I'm getting a really nice one from WSU, and was planning on working in some of the new cafes. I'll need to think of a way to carry it that doesn't draw attention. But what I don't want is to become a purse-clutching, street-crossing, trembling wimp anytime a lone man or a group of men crosses my path.

pffft, I hear you. But I've always gone places in the city and the 'burbs at night, not wandering the streets by any means, and NEVER past 11 pm when I'm by myself. When you work all day, every day, and it's dark so much of the year in the evening, I think it'd be not that great of an existence to only be able to shop or catch up with friends or go to an event on Saturdays or Sunday afternoons. I am religious, and attend church a couple of weekday nights... sometimes afterwards, I'll stop by the store. Also, sometimes I need to run to CVS or the grocery store to get things, and it gets dark at 5 or 6 in the winter. I don't have a guy in my life to do those things... and who's to say that if I did, he'd always be willing and available to do it?

Shovelhead, one thing that has happened is that I dress a lot better than when I was a DPS teacher, not because I have any more money, but by dint of doing a lot more consultant work out of town, and supervisory work, for the past 5 years. I think that I used to have this "I work with young people and I ain't scared of young black men" attitude as well. I've taught juveniles before, in two different summer school programs, and I can count the times I've ever felt threatened by young brothers on one hand... actually, other than this incident, I have to go back to when I was 14 and being harassed at a bus stop near the North End... nearly 20 years!

East Detroit, the point is that they're U-M grad students from big cities and neighborhoods that are arguably rougher than most of Detroit. If they hadn't been with me, I would have gotten the bag snatched. He did go for it, but my girlfriend from South Side Chicago saw him coming and stood between me and him with her hand inside her coat pocket. All she had was mace, but he didn't want to chance it. So in this case, thank God for grad student SISTERfriends. A lot of the women I know aren't half so savvy.

Guess you need to look at living in Royal Oak then

I don't get this. Even if I live somewhere else, I will be working in the CBD. Until yesterday, I always felt more comfortable in the CBD than I did in RO... it's more familiar. I don't know the ins and outs of RO shops, and I don't know the people who manage or own places the way I used to know places in the D.

If I don't move directly to Detroit, it'll be an inner ring suburb that's diverse, and I'll rent instead of buying, because the intent will be to save up in order to move somewhere in Detroit. It's not a question of whether I'll live in Detroit again, it's a question of timing.

[Stosh]

Judging by what I've read here, seems as if the purse snatcher has done this many times in the past. Consider the crime itself, and the timing needed to effectively snatch the purse and escape the PM once it had been committed. Random? Sure. Never happened before? Not likely.

Sounds too me that your perception of the city has changed a bit, English. As a twentysomething I was pretty much invincible too. Now that you are older, you become a little more vunerable. If this shakes you up now, just wait for the jolt of actually living that existence daily. I always figured from your previous posts here that your perception of Detroit was always a little bit on the "rose colored glasses" perspective.

I think you should listen to your friends. They seem to have a bit of common sense.

[pffft]

A friend's car was stolen from Lafayette in front of WDIV, between 9-11 p.m. [[so the sun had just gone down, it was summer) last September. The Hotel Fort Shelby is in full gear, the street is well lit there, etc. That's brazen. I'm not doing street parking after 5, for any reason.

My friend used to park there all the time when he worked at 'DIV, no problems. Clearly there are more "issues" these days, with less security/cops, more desperation.

And English, I don't mean you have to stay in as a solo female, just that the late night thing, alone, is problematic anywhere.

[English]

It wasn't even an expensive or expensive looking bag. It was cheap. That's the kicker.

Stosh, I want to continue to live life with rose-colored glasses, actually. Why is it that black women from Detroit can't be positive and optimistic? Do we all have to walk around with bad attitudes, "keepin' it real"? Seriously? And then people complain that it makes us undesirable as women, and that's why so many of us are single.

And English, I don't mean you have to stay in as a solo female, just that the late night thing, alone, is problematic anywhere.

That's true. It's sad that it's true, but it is. I don't do quite a bit at night [[such as go to the ATM anywhere -- that's just ill advised), but I will walk from a building to my car, even if it's several blocks. Once in a blue moon at an event, a guy will insist on escorting me back to my car afterward, but usually that doesn't happen here in the North... it does when I'm traveling in the South.

It's also interesting that the first time this happened, I was with two other people. Usually I'm flying solo, and I'm just fine. Granted, I wouldn't have ridden the DPM by myself -- I would have driven my car to the several stops on our route and parked nearby -- but I've got a lot of friends who do not post on these boards. I can imagine telling my sisterfriend professor who wanted to have dinner at 7 pm back in January "I'm sorry, I don't go out in Detroit at night" after we've both grown up here. She would rightfully wonder if I'd lost my mind.

[Stosh]

It wasn't even an expensive or expensive looking bag. It was cheap. That's the kicker.

I want to continue to live life with rose-colored glasses, actually. Why is it that black women from Detroit can't be positive and optimistic? Do we all have to walk around with bad attitudes, "keepin' it real"? Seriously?

Nobody is stopping you from doing that, I suppose. Being positive and optimistic is fine in most cases, but as long as the tint isn't so dark in your glasses that it blinds you to reality.

And the attitude thing? Let's just say that while you were out with your friends, relaxed, and enjoying yourself, was your guard down? It pays to have a bit of attitude in public places. And if you weren't carrying a can of mace, or something a bit stronger, shame on you. I think that the best defense is a good offense. A little protection goes a long way for projecting the "attitude" you need.

[English]

A friend's car was stolen from Lafayette in front of WDIV, between 9-11 p.m. [[so the sun had just gone down, it was summer) last September. The Hotel Fort Shelby is in full gear, the street is well lit there, etc. That's brazen. I'm not doing street parking after 5, for any reason.

My friend used to park there all the time when he worked at 'DIV, no problems. Clearly there are more "issues" these days, with less security/cops, more desperation.

Thanks for the information. This is the kind of stuff I'm trying to gauge... how things may have changed during my time in graduate school.

[English]

Nobody is stopping you from doing that, I suppose. Being positive and optimistic is fine in most cases, but as long as the tint isn't so dark in your glasses that it blinds you to reality.

Glad to know that's what you think of me. Rest assured I'll keep it in mind whenever I interact with you from now on.

And the attitude thing? Let's just say that while you were out with your friends, relaxed, and enjoying yourself, was your guard down? It pays to have a bit of attitude in public places. And if you weren't carrying a can of mace, or something a bit stronger, shame on you. I think that the best defense is a good offense. A little protection goes a long way for projecting the "attitude" you need.

Duly scolded. Thanks.

Not that you need to know this, but of course I carried a visible canister of mace when I lived in Midtown and worked at CT. It was on my keychain. I never needed to use it, though. But hey, maybe we should all be packing so that if we receive a suspicious look, we can eliminate any and all threats. If I'd pulled out my gun the second he started to size me up, yeah, that would've showed him!

[EastSider]

"I posted to find out if there's stuff going on that people have heard about, and that I wouldn't hear about on the news."

Check out the city's on-line crime stats. 99% of that stuff never makes it to the news, sort of like the sea of busted glass along Congress many Monday mornings.

Then factor in the amount of crime people don't bother calling the cops to report, because, well, it's Detroit. It's not like they're going to investigate.

I'm still confused, though, about how someone can claim to grow up in Detroit and then be shocked [[shocked!) that there's crime and that they could be a victim.

In my little corner of the city, in one of the "stable" neighborhoods on the east side, in a two-mile radius, there were 52 crimes reported in 5 days lat week. That's 10 crimes every day within two miles of my home. How many weren't reported? I know I've never bothered calling the cops any of the 4 times my garage was broken into in the last 3 years.

[English]

I'm still confused, though, about how someone can claim to grow up in Detroit and then be shocked [[shocked!) that there's crime and that they could be a victim.

Simple. Because I never have been before, and I'm not exactly a spring chicken. I have two younger sisters who are still in their 20s, who go out at night with friends to far more risky places than I ever would, and neither of them have experienced any personal crime, either.

Even more crazy, none of my cousins have experienced any, either. In fact, no one in my generation has had a car stolen, smash and grab, assault, raped, groped, pickpocket, been robbed, shot, stabbed, or injured at all on the streets of Detroit. We have FRIENDS who have, and some of our older RELATIVES have, but nothing ever happened to US. And most of our friends and relatives never had anything happen to them.

In my experience from my earliest memories in the early 80s until now, crime happened to two groups of people in the city: 1) those interacting with criminals and involved in that lifestyle, and 2) easy "marks" like people who leave ANYTHING on their car seats, people who don't have eyes in the back of their heads, or people who scurry around the CBD looking nervous and scared.

Since I didn't fall into group #1 or group #2, why on earth would I expect to be a victim? And indeed, the point of this thread was that last night, I wasn't... but I am shaken up. Anyone would be unless they're superhuman.

[English]

In my little corner of the city, in one of the "stable" neighborhoods on the east side, in a two-mile radius, there were 52 crimes reported in 5 days lat week. That's 10 crimes every day within two miles of my home. How many weren't reported? I know I've never bothered calling the cops any of the 4 times my garage was broken into in the last 3 years.

Didn't see your update. That's fair. I have heard there's more property crime occurring. One of my older cousins is nearly retired from the DPD and his car was stolen from his driveway last December. He says he's fed up, will leave the force in January, and is moving to Arizona.

Look, despite what Stosh and others may think, I'm not skipping around the city, singing "Do Re Mi". I was born in the mid-1970s and by the time I knew anything, Detroit was in the middle of the crack wars. I grew up behind barred doors, barbed wire fences, security alarms, and starting around 2004 when I moved from Midtown back to the 'hood, surveillance cameras. As a little kid and preteen I spent a lot of time being frightened and stressed out and worried that something would happen. It wasn't a great childhood to be honest. I went to magnet schools, and then I took the bus home, and my parents would be there to pick me up. We didn't have ANY freedom to wander or roam around the neighborhood, and we were not allowed to associate or play with the neighborhood kids. We weren't allowed to go to sleepovers, because someone got shot at one back in the mid-1980s, I guess. That is how and when I learned to write -- I felt like I was growing up in prison.

But then our house got broken into back in '88 and after that I figured, well, it's already happened. And then I decided that I would never be scared again. Why live life from the standpoint of a victim? If something was going to happen to me, what was worrying about it going to do besides cut down on enjoying whatever life I was blessed with?

I spent the decade of the 1990s riding the DOT wherever I had to go in the city. I've seen a lot, despite my optimism and lightheartedness, trust me. All city kids have. I just always was able to see the bigger picture.

I risked the snark and the bullying from this forum because I'm trying to process things, and as always, I know how to sort the BS from the helpful advice one gets here. For the first time in my life, I am questioning whether I have the wherewithal to make it in Detroit 24-7. If so, fine, I've had a good run, and I can give back by working and setting up youth programs in the city once again. Maybe the right program will change the life of some young would-be robber.