GOP: Put up or shut up

[maxx]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/22/op...22krugman.html

The beast is starving. So now what?...

Post WWI Germany proves that desperate people will vote for very bad people.

[gnome]

Attachment 5473

singing one note over and over and over and over and over is tedious.

Especially foo-brained is raising the specter of the famous paper hanger. Don't you realise that resorting to the Nazi Card, shows your argument as baseless and not worth consideration?

[Jimaz]

Thanks, maxx.

doubling down on starve-the-beast

They need to be held accountable for this treason. They like to play the role of patriots while ripping the country to shreds. They can't have it both ways. Real patriots don't destroy their own country.

Wall Street bankers are currently recreating the next financial meltdown.

Who's side are they really on?

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Post WWI Germany proves that desperate people will vote for very bad people."

And this country gets more and more like it everyday. A friend of mine recently had to make an emergency trip from New Mexico to Atlanta and due to such short notice, and airfares on short notice, she was forced to take a bus. En route through Louisiana, they were in the middle of nowhere, stopped in some little jerkwater burg and there were 20 or so Federal agents at the stop that ordered everyone off the bus, checked their ID's and then brought K9 units in looking for whatever, she said they really didn't say. And they were a long way from the border. They checked everyone and then let them go.

Seriously, is this the sort of country we all want to live in?

[Retroit]

That's funny, wasn't it the Democrats who were just bragging about how Obama cut taxes?

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=4685

All this double-talk kind of reminds me of Hitler...

[oladub]

"ever since Reagan, the G.O.P. has been run by people who want a much smaller government."

This is a straw man argument and one of Krugman's sillier statements. Since when have the people running the GOP wanted a smaller government except when democrats are running the show? The Republican leadership has expanded the size, spending, and powers of the federal government just like the Democrats.

[RaumVogel]

Gmome is obviously a republican.

[maxx]

"ever since Reagan, the G.O.P. has been run by people who want a much smaller government."

This is a straw man argument and one of Krugman's sillier statements. Since when have the people running the GOP wanted a smaller government except when democrats are running the show? The Republican leadership has expanded the size, spending, and powers of the federal government just like the Democrats.

Krugman's point was that Republicans have been running up the government debt to make it nonfunctioning. Won't it be great when we don't have all those nasty federal government programs that provided Head Start and Medicare and Social Security and the FDA and the EPA and NASA . The U.S. can become 50 separate little fiefdoms, some doing well, most miserably poor and undereducated.

[Papasito]

I don't think the “starving the beast” approach is viable until our economy is prosperous.
Everyone knows that our tax base simply can not support a government the size of which we have, and this system is not sustainable. But taking these measures during a recession is inconceivable. There are a lot of people hurting financially for reasons not their own, and to cut them off before happy days are here again is political suicide and certainly is not the best thing for these people in need right now.

[firstandten]

Sadly, I believe several things are going to work in the GOP's favor over the next few years. One the GOP is really going to start reaping the benefits of having 5 activist conservative supreme court judges over the past few years. The Citizens United case should start bringing some dividends as early as this mid-term election.

The financial investment that GOP operatives have made in elevating fake populist groups such as the teabaggers to the national eye will also begin to pay off.

The ability to gum up the works such as saying NO to everything will turn off a sizable number of voters to the political process. Remember the goal is to have low voter turnout. The GOP usually wins elections with low voter turnout.

The GOP will corner the market on getting the low information voter to vote their way by throwing up talking points that on the surface makes sense, but if you dig deeper those talking points loses steam.

And the ones who aren't low information voters will simply be working two and three jobs [[due to GOP policies) just to keep up financially and not care politically.

So, yes the GOP is putting up and not shutting up

Thats why I believe its critical that Obama gets two terms.

Some of the liberals and independents think he's a disappointment but its been predicted that at least one of the supreme courts gang of 5 will be retiring between 2012-2016 and its important that Obama or someone like him is in the position to right the ship by getting some sensible judges in there. That would be a big step in getting a government thats begins to work for the people.

[Jimaz]

I don't think the “starving the beast” approach is viable until our economy is prosperous.

Even beyond that point is it not treasonous?

They're calling for the downfall of the U. S. government for crying out loud. They side with terrorists and they're given a get-out-of-jail card for free?! WTF?

[Papasito]

not the "downfall" of the government,
the shrinking of the government's size.
the government is annually out of funds by what? March?
how can we sustain a government this large when tax dollars only fund it for the first three months of the year, and we operate it on loans for the other 9?
we all want government services, but we can only realistically have a government that costs as much to operate as the amount of taxes it takes in....

[Jimaz]

Treason. Account for that.

[oladub]

Krugman's point was that Republicans have been running up the government debt to make it nonfunctioning. Won't it be great when we don't have all those nasty federal government programs that provided Head Start and Medicare and Social Security and the FDA and the EPA and NASA . The U.S. can become 50 separate little fiefdoms, some doing well, most miserably poor and undereducated.

I've seen a slightly different but similar criticism directed at President Obama by political enemies or others who simply can't fathom the debt he is running up. Obama just thrashed NASA by the way. Without massive inflation those other entitlement programs won't be funded either. Congress long ago looted the Social Security coffers. Most of the most bankrupt states are blue states but that could be coincidence. Without a federal Santa and its counterfeiting machine, such irresponsible states would most likely suffer as you suggest. The option would be exercizing reform and prudence and cleaning up corruption.

Here is one such article accusing President Obama of pretty much the same as Krugman accuses Republicans. I'm not disagreeing with everything Krugman says in his article but he really does set up a strawman. I mean, how many dollars did the Bush tax cuts for the rich amount to compared with the $14T [[Mother Jones figure) dumped into the banking system mostly by the Obama Treasury and the Fed ? I'm not supporting Bush but he really was a tightwad compared to Obama.
The Cloward/Piven Strategy of Economic Recovery
exerpt- The Cloward/Piven Strategy is named after Columbia University sociologists Richard Andrew Cloward and Frances Fox Piven. Their goal is to overthrow capitalism by overwhelming the government bureaucracy with entitlement demands. The created crisis provides the impetus to bring about radical political change.

Its a variation of the idea that Bush gave tax cuts to make new spending programs difficult to achieve. Maybe both theories have merit. Maybe both just create paranoia.

[d.mcc]

Sounds like this convo needs a good ole Massa-style tickle fight!

[jiminnm]

The social security squeeze is beginning.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/..._security_ious

[rb336]

"ever since Reagan, the G.O.P. has been run by people who want a much smaller government."

This is a straw man argument and one of Krugman's sillier statements. Since when have the people running the GOP wanted a smaller government except when democrats are running the show? The Republican leadership has expanded the size, spending, and powers of the federal government just like the Democrats.

no, they have done it on a larger scale

[rb336]

by what? March?
how can we sustain a government this large when tax dollars only fund it for the first three months of the year, and we operate it on loans for the other 9?

simple. Make the ultra-wealthy start paying their share to maintain the system that has made them so wealthy. Make corporations start treating with fairness the workers that increased their productivity by huge factors, while real wages have stagnated and out-of-pocket expenses have soared, all the while executive pay haas skyrocketed out of all rational proportion [[this broadens the tax base, cuts down on the # of working families that still need govt. assistance, etc.). stop rewarding risky investment behaviors by giving capital gains preferential tax treatment to EARNED wages. stop sucking up to value-deductive industries such as insurance, hedge funds, etc. make wall street pay for its own regulators, and give the regulators some teeth

[Retroit]

More beast:

http://hannity.blogs.foxnews.com/201...he-final-list/

[ejames01]

Of course there are not any sources attached to that list.

More beast:

http://hannity.blogs.foxnews.com/201...he-final-list/

[Papasito]

Make the ultra-wealthy start paying their share to maintain the system that has made them so wealthy.

So, having one of the highest tax rates [[if not THE highest) for corporations and wealthy in the world is not enough. They need to "start" paying, because the measly amount they have been paying is inadeqate? Yeah lets pound the piss out of job providers, especailly right now, in a down economy. That will be a sure fire thing to end the recession!

[Retroit]

Of course there are not any sources attached to that list.

I too wish they would have sourced it. Here is a larger, more detailed list that I found that gives a little more sourceable data: http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/Page...pigbook2009#ag

[rb336]

So, having one of the highest tax rates [[if not THE highest) for corporations and wealthy in the world is not enough. They need to "start" paying, because the measly amount they have been paying is inadeqate? Yeah lets pound the piss out of job providers, especailly right now, in a down economy. That will be a sure fire thing to end the recession!

all that "highest tax rate" crap is total bullshit, and you know it, even on the corporate side [[for income, if it isn't the lowest in the developed world it is damn close). for corporate, the effective rate is FAR lower than the stated rates.

Our economy was strongest, and best for the highest number of people, when our tax rates were way higher -- before the kennedy tax cuts.

[Papasito]

Since you cant seem to google, I'll have to link some sources to back up my claims about our high corporate tax rates when I get home from work today.

[ghettopalmetto]

Since you cant seem to google, I'll have to link some sources to back up my claims about our high corporate tax rates when I get home from work today.

Hopefully followed by a lengthy discussion on the numerous exemptions, deductions, and loopholes allowed by the Internal Revenue Code.