Detroit's Fresh Water

[stasu1213]

Detroit has the great potential to use it's river as a way to revitalize the economy of it. Fresh water is just as precious as oil. It was told that the citizens of Alaska are recieveing money for the Alaskan oil that is being funneled through the pipeline. The city of Detroit and it's residents could profit off the selling of fresh water to places like Arizona, Texas, California, and other regions of this country that are in need of it. The state of Michigan sits is surrounded by the Great Lakes. Regions want the water from her. Granholm, Bing, and other state and locals leaders couldn't figure out a way to profit from the water? Michigan as well as Detroit could be thriving again.

[Toolbox]

That is a pretty idiotic and selfish idea.

You do realize that there are 5 other states and another country that have a say in what happens to the Great Lakes?

Detroit is not king of the Great Lakes.

There are also water botteling plants in the state that do use water from the local aquifers.

[ndavies]

If they want the water they have to move here. You can no longer divert water from the great lakes basin. There are Federal statutes and a compact with Canada banning the exporting of water from the great lakes basin. This protects the lakes from being sucked dry.

These requlations were hard fought for and should not be repealed. They are protecting the future of the Great Lakes.

A summary of current diversions and the the regulations put in place to prevent future diversions.
http://www.glwi.uwm.edu/ourwaters/do...rsionsCWeb.pdf

[313WX]

Detroit has the great potential to use it's river as a way to revitalize the economy of it. Fresh water is just as precious as oil. It was told that the citizens of Alaska are recieveing money for the Alaskan oil that is being funneled through the pipeline. The city of Detroit and it's residents could profit off the selling of fresh water to places like Arizona, Texas, California, and other regions of this country that are in need of it.

Umm, we're trying got get people to stay/move here, not stay in/move away to the desert SW. If anything, that's one of our bigger problems. Just like they were saying Michigan got what it deserved for its over-dependence on the auto industry, those states will get what they deserved for heaviliy populating areas with little fresh water when it all runs out.

That's not to say you don't have a good point with water being a potential key in Detroit's future.

[Mikeg]

Fresh water is just as precious as oil.

Oil is a non-renewable resource while fresh water can be recycled and re-used. Therefore, how can water be "just as precious as oil"? Just because you wish it were doesn't make it so.

The problem with fresh water is that it is not evenly distributed across the face and aquifers of the planet, thus its cost is a function of local availability and demand. When its cost gets high enough, different sources and recycling methods become economically feasible. If it gets too high, the problem will be self-limiting as population and industry move elsewhere. But they will not just automatically move to the place with the lowest cost or cleanest water, they will be looking at other factors as well.

[Baselinepunk]

"Granholm, Bing, and other state and locals leaders couldn't figure out a way to profit from the water?"

Perhaps JennyEngler could have procured tax revenue from the companies like Ice Mountain instead of offering tax cuts? I agree that our water is a great natural resource and I do not agree that our State leaders, if they choose to allow this to happen, should give this resource away for free. I know the businesses pay a business tax; however, their raw material, as far as I know, is not.

[Baselinepunk]

"Oil is a non-renewable resource while fresh water can be recycled and re-used."

I have to disagree with this statement. Oil is a renewable resource; it was [[and is) naturally produced over a great deal of time. It's just that this resource is not replenished in the time frame that suits current Human demand.

[Lowell]

how can water be "just as precious as oil"?

Oil is around $80 a barrel or 80/55 or around $1.45 per gallon.
Absopure 5 Gallon bottle $6.65/5 = $1.33
Small bottled water is even higher.

[3WC]

Lowell, a bbl of oil contains 42 gallons. Your point is still well made.

[Detroitej72]

Water should never be diverted from the Great Lakes Basin. If people are suffering from thirst out west or in the south, that's too bad, they should move to where the water is.

There is a reason civilizations were formed around a source of fresh water and not a barren desert, so why do folks think they can conquer nature in this age, arrogance?

[Baselinepunk]

I have a relative that just moved to Las Vegas. Her last full water bill was 17 bucks. Perhaps that's the problem.

[neighbor]

I have a relative that just moved to Las Vegas. Her last full water bill was 17 bucks. Perhaps that's the problem.

How is that possible? I can practically see Lake St. Clair from my house and my bill was over $120 for the last 2 months.

[Ray1936]

Our water and sewage bill here in Henderson [[LV burb) runs around $40 a month. The biggest trouble is it's hard to tell the difference in taste between the fresh water and the sewage.......

So..........we stick to bottled water for our drinking water. The tap crap is strictly for washing.

Treasure that Great Lakes water, you guys.

[Baselinepunk]

I have absolutely no idea. There is hardly any recycling programs there, too. My bill for the last three months was just over $200.00. We have to consider that the Detroit DPW is involved in our process, and combined with the addition fees and increases of our respective municipalities, it's easy to see why we pay so much. My water rates [[minus fees) have went up well over 150% since the late 90's. Add the additional nickle and dime fees my city places on the water bill, the stuff is just like liquid gold here.

[stasu1213]

If the western states are already recieving water from Michigan and the other great lakes state why not charge more money for the water and let the citiaens of Michigan profit from it. Michigan doesn't have to pipe most of water. Michigan should make our water just as precious to outsiders out west as Texas's oil was when most of the country needed it years ago.

[stasu1213]

It isnot selfish. Some western and southern states are using our water paying cheaper rates. Michigan citizens are pay astronomical rates while have the fresh water in our own backyard. It doesn't have to be shipped to us.

[ndavies]

It isnot selfish. Some western and southern states are using our water paying cheaper rates. Michigan citizens are pay astronomical rates while have the fresh water in our own backyard. It doesn't have to be shipped to us.

What the hell are you talking about?

No western or southern state is receiving water from the Great Lakes. All water is still collected locally. The link I posted lists all the outflowing water from the great lakes. None crosses the Mississippi or Ohio rivers. The water passing into the Mississippi only helps Chicago.

Most of Detroit's water costs are generated from the clean water regulations and the court orders that greatly improved water quality in the great lakes basin. We as a region have spent billions to keep the water in the great lakes clean and healthy. You're paying those costs in your water bill.

[Mikeg]

What the hell are you talking about?

He doesn't know what he is talking about. As you pointed out, our water bills pay for not only the costs to treat and distribute the water that is piped to our homes, it also includes the costs to collect the sewage and provide secondary treatment before it is returned directly into the Great Lakes.

The Metro Detroit system treats all of its sewage at a single massive old plant that has been continuously upgraded for the past 40 years at high cost without shutting it down.

Metro Las Vegas has two different water/sewer agencies with a total of six newer and smaller sewage plants. Much of their treated sewage effluent is dumped into a ditch in the Las Vegas Wash, where it travels about 15 miles before the remainder that doesn't evaporate or soak into the ground empties into Lake Mead.

Both Metro areas have to meet the same Federal standards for treated drinking water and treated sewage effluent but how they've gotten their results are very different. Whose total costs as reflected on water billing rates would you expect to be astronomically higher?

[gazhekwe]

Maybe the bottled water Ray is drinking comes from the Great Lakes. Notice that, according to Lowell's little table and 3WC, bottled water costs $1.33/gallon while oil costs between $1.45 - $1.95/gallon. So, if we raised the cost of the Ray's water from the Great Lakes .12 - .62 per gallon, how much you want to bet he switches to water from a different source?

[Bullet]

@ Mikeg:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?article_id=38645

Just starting some shit my friend.

[Mikeg]

Just starting some shit my friend.

You and Baselinepunk introduce a good point!

I think that the public's perception of oil's "non-renewability" is currently based more on the annual "peak oil is almost here" claims by political and environmental activists than it is on the information provided by the geological and engineering experts in the petroleum business. The politicians and environmentalists want us to believe that it is "settled science" that we are about to run out of oil and that anyone who offers any evidence to the contrary is a "denier".

I say, let's end our dependence on foreign petroleum imports [[41% of which comes from our Canadian and Mexican neighbors as compared to the 43% that comes from OPEC member countries) by removing our legislative constraints so we can then responsibly drill more domestic wells and maybe even drill them deeper to hopefully find and tap some of those gushing rivers of "renewable, primordial soup"!

[Retroit]

stasu1213:

A lot depends on lake levels: if they are low [[as they have been in recent years), there will be no diversions of water; if homes along the shoreline are being flooded due to rising water levels [[due to unexpected and consistent heavy rainfall), water diversion might gain some acceptability.

[Ray1936]

Maybe the bottled water Ray is drinking comes from the Great Lakes. Notice that, according to Lowell's little table and 3WC, bottled water costs $1.33/gallon while oil costs between $1.45 - $1.95/gallon. So, if we raised the cost of the Ray's water from the Great Lakes .12 - .62 per gallon, how much you want to bet he switches to water from a different source?

Well, Ray's bottled water comes from Lake Mead, the same as his tap water. The only difference is that it is intensely treated, and comes from stations in most strip malls known as Watermill Express .http://www.watermillexpress.com/index.html
I fill four 5-gallon jugs each trip which costs me a quarter a gallon, which I'm very happy to pay. Wife and I both drink a lot of water and the flavor is perfect.

[littlebuddy]

Why couldn't we take 10% of the water that leaves Lake Ontario and out the St. Lawrence Seaway and divert that for the western states? I am sure Canada and the states around the Great Lakes could use the money and I don't think it would hurt the Great Lakes levels.

[Jimaz]

LOL There's a little thing called the Continental Divide holding up a BIG stop sign to that plan.