Relocating to Detroit metro area

[gnome]

Few places to take your family


nothing to do




Nobody goes there, it's too crowded.


and the cops are meanies

[gnome]

And everyone lives in the exact same places




and everything is expensive



and no public transit





enough? Anyone else what to see how shitty Birmingham is?

[Fury13]

...isn't much within walking distance when you live in the suburbs, which is true... You really do have to drive everywhere in the suburbs in order to get to the variety of restaurants or bars that are in the suburbs.

Totally false, if you're in Ferndale, Royal Oak, Berkley, Birmingham, Rochester, Plymouth, or Northville. Lots of entertainment options right in each of those little downtowns. You have to go a little farther between bars/restaurants in the Pointes, but not much.

Now, if you're talking about bar-hopping between, say, Birmingham and Royal Oak, well yeah, sure, that requires a car. So would bar-hopping between Greektown and Corktown, though.

[Fury13]

If you knew anything about Detroit you would know that it was never about "urban" living. It was about working at some god foresaken plant so your kids didn't have to, going home, then going downtown to shop or to Belle Isle. It was always about the neighborohoods. Having your own piece of land and not sharing walls with other people. Having your own car and the freedom that came with it.

If you want true urban living in this country try NY, Chicago, or San Fran. otherwise go to Europe. There just aren't many places in the U.S. not made with cars in mind.

The bottom line is where are you going to spend most of your time? Your house. Live somewhere you feel comfortable laying at night sleeping. Live somewhere with easy access to all of the things above. Live in a house you want to live in.

Well said.

I admit, the idea of living in the city of Detroit is appealing in some ways. But you'll have to work harder at being happy there and you'll put up with a lot of crap. You'll pay higher taxes, you'll have to view a lot of blight [[if it's not in your neighborhood, it's nearby, probably within a half-mile), and, most important, you'll get virtually NO police protection and precious little in city services.

Is living in the city worth all that? If you're 25, idealistic, and naive [[prior to your first mugging or home invasion experience), yeah maybe. For the rest of us, the answer is "no."

[DetroitScooter]

If you could possibly swing it when you visit, try teaming up with a few current residents of your "finalist" areas. I'd be willing to show you a typical day living near downtown Royal Oak and commuting to downtown Detroit, or even a weekend day [[with the fam). SE Michigan is really a stunning area, and I'm glad that you are considering it as a new home.

We moved here from Orlando 10 years ago and we flat-out love it. Great people, notable diversity, impressive history and a gritty self-determination that you can almost feel. Royal Oak is a very good match for our interests and it's central location means that we can work almost anywhere in the metro area.

Let us know when you are in the area and we'll see who steps up to take you around for a few hours. You'll love it!

[casscorridor]

And everyone lives in the exact same places




and everything is expensive



and no public transit





enough? Anyone else what to see how shitty Birmingham is?

Oh whatever. This is a tiny tiny tiny place. Surrounded by SPRAWL!!!!! It was/is a small town located along Woodward Ave, DETROIT'S most important avenue, that stretched out and connected it to Pontiac. Along the route a few small towns began to grow such as Royal Oak and Birmingham and took on urban characteristics that were typical at that time. That urban character did not last long, as Birmingham is now engulfed in sprawl. But more importantly, the reality is that Birmingham only looks like that because it is one of the wealthiest communities in Michigan, with a culture of snobbery known throughout the metro area. This is an ultra-exclusive neighborhood to live in. You won't find the same hospitality, open-mindedness, tolerance, and diversity that you find in Detroit's neighborhoods. You won't find a down-to-earth attitude, as everyone seems to be living in a fantasy world where the recession/depression doesn't even exist, and when they don't see it, why should they care about it? What are those buses in the pictures for? Transporting workers from southern Oakland county and Detroit, where the they live. Virtually no one with a minimum-wage job, outside of students, actually lives in Birmingham. Amtrack train? Sure, but thats not walking distance from downtown Bham, and you can't really commute on that unless you wanna fork over 20 bucks every day [[i guess maybe residents in Birmingham can though, so thats why its called "public transit"). It's not like Detroit doesn't have an Amtrak station. And remember, SMART is far inferior to DDOT, this is only challenged based on racialized and class-based fears of riding the bus and brushing shoulders with "those people." In Birmingham, people live in a world of privilege. In Detroit people live in the world of the real.

Fear of a thing is more dangerous than the thing itself.

[hudkina]

Detroit's urban nodes deserve a lot more credit than they are given. Birmingham, Plymouth, Royal Oak, Rochester, Mt. Clemens, Pontiac, Wyandotte, Ferndale, etc. all offer the opportunity to maintain a walkable lifestyle, hardly different than what you'd find in Midtown. Detroit isn't like Boston or San Francisco or Washington. There is no decent public transit system. There isn't a major walkable shopping district. There aren't many ultra-dense mixed-use neighborhoods. The reality is that Detroit in its current state isn't all that different than the major suburban centers. Hopefully that will change over time, but there's absolutely no reason to knock the suburban communities that have done urbanity the right way.

[neighbor]

Oh whatever. This is a tiny tiny tiny place. Surrounded by SPRAWL!!!!!.......... You won't find the same hospitality, open-mindedness, tolerance, and diversity that you find in Detroit's neighborhoods. ........ And remember, SMART is far inferior to DDOT, this is only challenged based on racialized and class-based fears of riding the bus and brushing shoulders with "those people." In Birmingham, people live in a world of privilege. In Detroit people live in the world of the real.

"Whatever" is usually an awesome closer to a disagreement but I'll try to recover.

First, what is this evil "sprawl" you speak of? Wouldn't you consider anything outside of Downtown true sprawl? Aren't Detroits neighborhoods an early example of sprawl? What about the New Center area? Yes, all sprawl.

Sprawl, is only bad when it takes people away from a core area. Brighton and Canton are sprawl. The areas surrounding Birmingham are not. It is just infill between small towns like Berkley, Royal Oak, Clawson, and Pontiac.

I am tired of people calling Detroit diverse. Why is it diverse? Because it has a large minority population? When any group of people is such a huge majority in a city it is not diverse.

Honestly, you are living in a fantasy world if you think most people living in Detroit are hospitable, open-minded, tolerate.

As far as riding the bus who cares? People don't avoid the bus because they are racist they do it because it sucks.

It's the motor city for a reason. No matter where you live having a car will make your life easier. The bus sucks because it is cramped, makes a ton of stops you don't need, takes forever to get from A to B, and isn't always on time. Light rail will only work when it extends beyond the city limits to places like Birmingham.

People in Birmingham do have a lot of things in Detroit don't but lets not make the generalization that none of then have worked for what they have gotten. I would imagine a lot of them have worked a lot harder than a lot of Detroiters.

Have you ever heard anyone famous who grew up in poverty say " I love the ghetto but as soon as I got rich I got the f**K out." ?

[Ravine]

Good work, Neighbor. That much truth & honesty will put you on the "Why Do You Hate Detroit?" List, though.

So, getting back to Casscorridor's Flying-In-From-Neptune comments, and the "walking" thing, exactly where, inside of the real city of Detroit-- I'm not talking about downtown, or fucking "Midtown," or any of that Nuevo Hippe bullshit-- is a whole bunch of stuff easily accessible by foot?

I don't mean being able to get a loaf of bread from the gas station on the corner and a jar of pickles from the party store across the street, or picking up some t-shirts and other faux-designer apparel from the asshole who set up shop on the corner of Plymouth & Greenfield.
C'mon, let's hear it. Even downtown: Plenty of nightspots, some places where you can get a carry-out, but if you need real groceries, clothes, hardware? Would there not be a key turning in an ignition switch involved?
Don't bullshit folks just to keep hammering down the same pretentious nail. If you like living downtown, or in The Corridor, that's fine; I fucking loved living at Third [[and Fourth) & Antoinette, and that was loooong before it was "Midtown," but convenient? Oh, hell no. And while it is much different, now, it sure ain't like it's a garden of nice, consumer-friendly, needs-intensive shop-a-fuckin'-ramas, either.
You keep warbling the same song, over & over, but the lyrics don't make any goddam sense.

And what in the fucking world is this supposed to mean:

"You won't find the same hospitality, open-mindedness, tolerance, and diversity that you find in Detroit's neighborhoods."

Please, indulge me. What could you possibly know, about the neighborhoods, that would lend you cause to make that absurd statement?

[p1acebo]

Totally false, if you're in Ferndale, Royal Oak, Berkley, Birmingham, Rochester, Plymouth, or Northville. Lots of entertainment options right in each of those little downtowns. You have to go a little farther between bars/restaurants in the Pointes, but not much.

Now, if you're talking about bar-hopping between, say, Birmingham and Royal Oak, well yeah, sure, that requires a car. So would bar-hopping between Greektown and Corktown, though.

It is not totally false, sure you can bar hop in a few of the mini downtowns form the burbs, which I have done before and is fun. But in regards to festivals, sporting events, music shows and restaurant options, they pal in comparison to downtown Detroit.

[Ravine]

That's all Good Stuff, don't get me wrong, but folks-- grown folks, at least-- choose where to live based on their needs, not their wants. Cool Places To Hang Out is a want.

[Gistok]

I will back up Gistok's endorsement of Saint Clair Shores, but if Gizmo is looking for something with an urban, or even semi-urban, feel, SCS is out.
Also, if one expects to spend a lot of time in the general "Downtown Detroit" area, and lacks the time for leisurely drives down Jefferson Ave., living in SCS pretty much necessitates using the I-94 freeway, which-- during rush hours-- well, sucks.

Funny that... I-94 is not all that bad. I worked in Ann Arbor for 4 years and had about 1 hour drive from SCS each way during rush hour. Gratiot is a fast alternative [[since I live only 1 mile from that road near 11 Mile) with lights timed nicely and everyone going 45MPH. And besides a leisurely drive down Jefferson [[can't beat the calming view on Lakeshore Dr.), there are other ways to get home. Lafayette, Charlevoix and Mack are alternatives to getting east until you get past the congestion [[which usually ends around Conner).

But the worst part of I-94 during rush hour is from I-696 on out towards Mt. Clemens and beyond... often a lot of gridlock to the outer burbs.

[Hermod]

Little clips of portions of the suburbs does not represent the vast majority of strip mall after strip mall [[i.e. Troy, Sterling Heights, Rochester, etc), everyone drives everywhere for the most part.

While Troy and Sterling Heights do not have anything resembling a downtown because of the way their developmental history [[incorporation of a township to avoid piece meal annexation), Rochester, not Rochester Hills, has a very vibrant downtown. If you purchase one of the older homes in the town proper, you can walk or bike to quite a few activities and boutiques.

[Ravine]

I feel a bit queasy, now, about my befanged earlier post. I don't want Gizmo to feel as though Detroit is full of raging maniacs. [[There are too many near-empty areas for it to be considered as "full" of anything.)

But I am sick & painfully tired of the ignorant, irrational, one-size-fits-all bashing of the suburbs in this forum. We can be DetroitYes! without blowing snot all over the suburbs or being in denial as to the extremely serious [[and, in many cases, mounting) problems afflicting our hometown.

[Hermod]

And what in the fucking world is this supposed to mean:

"You won't find the same hospitality, open-mindedness, tolerance, and diversity that you find in Detroit's neighborhoods."

Please, indulge me. What could you possibly know, about the neighborhoods, that would lend you cause to make that absurd statement?

DIVERSITY????

Here are figures for the 2000 census. I am not sure the percentages will change that much in 2010. It looks like Troy is a lot more "diverse" than Detroit!

MICHIGAN
White 80.2%
Black 14.2%
American Indian 0.6%
Asian 1.8%
Hispanic/Latino 3.3%

DETROIT
White 12.3%
Black 81.6%
American Indian 0.3%
Asian 1.0%
Hispanic/Latino 5.0%

TROY
White 82.3%
Black 2.1%
American Indian 0.2%
Asian 13.3%
Hispanic/Latino 1.5%

[Fury13]

Most communities in metro Detroit are pretty homogenous in terms of ethnic diversity. Detroit and Livonia are mirror images of each other. Madison Heights, Sterling Heights, Troy, Southfield, Dearborn, and Oak Park might be the most diverse communities in the region.

Here's diverse for you:

Non-Hispanic White, 45.1 %
Hispanic, 14.0 %
African-American, 7.3 %
Asian, 31.3 %

And...

Gay, 15.4 %

That's right... San Francisco. We have nothing in this area to compare to that. REAL diversity.

[neighbor]

That much truth & honesty will put you on the "Why Do You Hate Detroit?" List, though.

Please don't put me on that list.

When Mrs. Neighbor and I were looking to move we looked at homes in the University District. We wanted to like it more than we did.

We liked the houses and how close it was to a lot of things but we didn't like all of the homes that were falling apart and unmaintained. We also couldn't be convinced that it would be the safest place to live.

All things considered we got a scaled down version of one of the homes in the University District in GPP.

However, before deciding between the University District and GPP we were thinking about moving out of state. We thought about it for a few months and we decided that this area was were we wanted to live.

[casscorridor]

First, what is this evil "sprawl" you speak of? Wouldn't you consider anything outside of Downtown true sprawl? Aren't Detroits neighborhoods an early example of sprawl? What about the New Center area? Yes, all sprawl.

New Center is not suburban sprawl. It more urban than most Detroit neighborhoods. I will agree that many neighborhoods in Detroit are early examples of sprawl. But does that justify the suburb's sprawl? No. In fact, the sprawl in the burbs was much worse. The entire city was developed, even the parts that I would consider suburban, before most people have a car. Talk to your parents/grandparents and they'll tell you how even if they had a car, they still rode the streetcars all the time.

Sprawl, is only bad when it takes people away from a core area. Brighton and Canton are sprawl. The areas surrounding Birmingham are not. It is just infill between small towns like Berkley, Royal Oak, Clawson, and Pontiac.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&...,0.084543&z=14

not sprawl? hmm.... okay. sure. lol

I am tired of people calling Detroit diverse. Why is it diverse? Because it has a large minority population? When any group of people is such a huge majority in a city it is not diverse.

More diverse than Birmingham. I feel like I'm in a sundown town when I'm there. If you are black, people assume you are either working there, or are trying to steal something. You must have some racial anxiety about Detroit being majority people of color... and its not all black. There is 100,000 latino residents. There is almost 100,00 whites. There are many other groups represented as well. There are many cultural and ethnic restaurants and attractions. We are far more progressive and anti-racist than Birmingham or your average suburb.

Honestly, you are living in a fantasy world if you think most people living in Detroit are hospitable, open-minded, tolerate.

You are the one in the fantasy world, bud. When I'm in Birmingham and get stares of disgust, i get shrugs nodding that somehow I'm not wanted. Most people I encounter in Detroit are very friendly, despite how much shit they have to deal with. Maybe it is because they see that wealth and money don't really matter.

You can smoke a joint here, and no one will flinch. If you do that in Birmingham you'll be in jail within an hour. Detroit is also much more open to homosexuality. To other religions. And above all, open to other peoples who, like them, are oppressed. This is my person experience.

As far as riding the bus who cares? People don't avoid the bus because they are racist they do it because it sucks.

Sure, the bus sucks. But don't try and tell me people don't avoid the bus because they are racist. Again, you are the one in the fantasy world!! Maybe they will ride SMART, but definatly not DDOT. So many suburban parents will let their kids ride SMART but say "NOT THE DDOT!!!!!!" The kids will say "but why" and they'll say "BECAUSE... IT IS DANGEROUS" AKA BLACK PEOPLE.

It's the motor city for a reason. No matter where you live having a car will make your life easier. The bus sucks because it is cramped, makes a ton of stops you don't need, takes forever to get from A to B, and isn't always on time. Light rail will only work when it extends beyond the city limits to places like Birmingham.

I hope it never extends to Birmingham because Birmingham SUCKS A DUCK. Everyone there thinks they are cooler than they are. They think they are in fucking Beverly Hills, CA or something. They are soooooooo full of themselves that they think that if the light-rail doesnt exent there it will be a failure. Since when is Birmigham a MAJOR destination? News flash to me.

People in Birmingham do have a lot of things in Detroit don't but lets not make the generalization that none of then have worked for what they have gotten. I would imagine a lot of them have worked a lot harder than a lot of Detroiters.

Funny how people can generalize all they want about Detroit, but when you generalize about Birmingham, OMG AN OUTRAGE! The fact remains that Birmigham is an ultra-exclusive elitist place to live. They are out of touch with reality, as evident from your posts.

Have you ever heard anyone famous who grew up in poverty say " I love the ghetto but as soon as I got rich I got the f**K out." ?

We have a word for that in the hood. It's called a sell out.

[p1acebo]

I don't understand the sudden praise for Bham as well. Out of the nicer suburbs to live in it is definitely over priced considering what you get. There is a lot of exclusivity in the downtown area and again IMO it is not worth it for the price you pay.

[neighbor]

First I would like to encourage young CassCorridor to take the time to spell check his posts. It is difficult to use his quotes with all of the red underlined words in them.

The entire city was developed, even the parts that I would consider suburban, before most people have a car......

Yes, that explains all of the GARAGES behind almost every house in Detroit's neighborhoods.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&...,0.084543&z=14

not sprawl? hmm.... okay. sure. lol

It is suburban infill. Building homes between existing towns is not sprawl as long as Detroit is filing up. You will find that a lot of these homes were built in the late 40's and 50's when Detroit was at or near capacity. As I said before sprawl is South Lyon, Macomb, Shelby Twp., Oakland Twp. etc.. Yes, a lot of Troy is sprawl but it is a very old community.

You are the one in the fantasy world, bud. When I'm in Birmingham and get stares of disgust

Yep, no non-white has ever gotten an odd look walking around Downtown.

You can smoke a joint here, and no one will flinch.

Isn't that really the problem with Detroit? An outright disregard for the law? I am for leagalizing and taxing the hell out of pot but that's not the point. Drug use is a BIG problem in the city.

So many suburban parents will let their kids ride SMART but say "NOT THE DDOT!!!!!!" The kids will say "but why" and they'll say "BECAUSE... IT IS DANGEROUS" AKA BLACK PEOPLE.

Pure speculation. I grew up in the suburbs and have only been on the bus a few times and I can't remember EVER asking to ride the bus. The bus was ridden on only out of necessity.

I hope it never extends to Birmingham because Birmingham SUCKS A DUCK. Everyone there thinks they are cooler than they are. They think they are in fucking Beverly Hills, CA or something. They are soooooooo full of themselves that they think that if the light-rail doesnt exent there it will be a failure. Since when is Birmigham a MAJOR destination? News flash to me.

Very mature. Birmingham is not a major destination. Detroit is. I was under the assumption that the train would also pick people up outsied of the city and take them there. If light rail doesn't extend in to the suburbs it will fail.

Funny how people can generalize all they want about Detroit, but when you generalize about Birmingham, OMG AN OUTRAGE! The fact remains that Birmigham is an ultra-exclusive elitist place to live. They are out of touch with reality, as evident from your posts.

I don't live in Birmigham but you must really be uncomfortable with yourself and your situation if you can't appreciate it for what it is. It is a great place to live and raise a family. It has a nice downtown and great neighborhoods.

You don't have to tear one place apart to make your place better. There are pros and cons to every city and town.

We have a word for that in the hood. It's called a sell out.

Lame. I'll bet you for every person who got out there is at least one friend still in that neighborhood who wished they had followed the same path and gotten out

[mikeinmotown]

If you want to purchase a home I suggest you really think about Corktown, Woodbridge, the MorningSide area [[Alter, Mack, E. Warren and E Outer Drive. I just moved from MorningSide to Lafayette Park.

[Hermod]

From the Birmingham website:

Housing Birmingham is an established, upscale community with tree-lined streets, a wide variety of home styles and sizes, and consistently rising property values. There are few remaining sites on which to build new homes, so developers and homeowners renovate or enlarge, or raze and rebuild on existing property. The average selling price of a single-family home was $369,201 in 2001, an increase of nearly 61 percent from 1997. Many Birmingham neighborhoods have active neighborhood associations, which work to boost the sense of pride neighbors take in owning and caring for their homes.
The number of historic homes and buildings reflect the historic character of the city, which is preserved by the city's Historic District Design and Review Commission. The HDDRC and the Birmingham City Commission give yearly Historic Preservation Awards to residential and commercial property owners and merchants, recognizing their efforts in preservation and maintaining historic properties.

[Hermod]

CITY OF ROCHESTER

Races in Rochester:

• White Non-Hispanic [[91.1%)
• Black [[2.2%)
• Hispanic [[1.7%)
• Asian Indian [[1.4%)
• Two or more races [[1.2%)
• Chinese [[0.7%)
• Korean [[0.7%)
• American Indian [[0.5%)

[BVos]

I'll second Grosse Pointe Park. It's more diverse than public/popular opinion would have you think [[the 2010 Census for GPP will probably blow people's minds on many levels) and is a very walkable community [[and truly walkable: great parks, a downtown with dwtn GP close by) with outstanding housing stock that is well maintained and, due to the foreclosure crisis, there are some great fixer uppers out there: well priced and a stable housing market so you can likely recoup your investment in a few years. You're close enough to Detroit that the nightlife and culture is there with a 15-20 min. drive when you need it.

I'd avoid the recommendation of Rosedale Park above. Crime is out of control there and the housing market is very unpredictable with a very uncertain future. Housing stock is comparable to GPP, but not maintained anywhere near as well as GPP. You may also have a tough time financially justifying significant investments into a property in Rosedale Park where the average selling price is around $25,000 to $40,000 right now. Anything priced above that is not serious about selling.

[Fury13]

New Center is not suburban sprawl. It more urban than most Detroit neighborhoods. I will agree that many neighborhoods in Detroit are early examples of sprawl. But does that justify the suburb's sprawl? No. In fact, the sprawl in the burbs was much worse. The entire city was developed, even the parts that I would consider suburban, before most people have a car. Talk to your parents/grandparents and they'll tell you how even if they had a car, they still rode the streetcars all the time.



http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&...,0.084543&z=14

not sprawl? hmm.... okay. sure. lol



More diverse than Birmingham. I feel like I'm in a sundown town when I'm there. If you are black, people assume you are either working there, or are trying to steal something. You must have some racial anxiety about Detroit being majority people of color... and its not all black. There is 100,000 latino residents. There is almost 100,00 whites. There are many other groups represented as well. There are many cultural and ethnic restaurants and attractions. We are far more progressive and anti-racist than Birmingham or your average suburb.



You are the one in the fantasy world, bud. When I'm in Birmingham and get stares of disgust, i get shrugs nodding that somehow I'm not wanted. Most people I encounter in Detroit are very friendly, despite how much shit they have to deal with. Maybe it is because they see that wealth and money don't really matter.

You can smoke a joint here, and no one will flinch. If you do that in Birmingham you'll be in jail within an hour. Detroit is also much more open to homosexuality. To other religions. And above all, open to other peoples who, like them, are oppressed. This is my person experience.



Sure, the bus sucks. But don't try and tell me people don't avoid the bus because they are racist. Again, you are the one in the fantasy world!! Maybe they will ride SMART, but definatly not DDOT. So many suburban parents will let their kids ride SMART but say "NOT THE DDOT!!!!!!" The kids will say "but why" and they'll say "BECAUSE... IT IS DANGEROUS" AKA BLACK PEOPLE.



I hope it never extends to Birmingham because Birmingham SUCKS A DUCK. Everyone there thinks they are cooler than they are. They think they are in fucking Beverly Hills, CA or something. They are soooooooo full of themselves that they think that if the light-rail doesnt exent there it will be a failure. Since when is Birmigham a MAJOR destination? News flash to me.



Funny how people can generalize all they want about Detroit, but when you generalize about Birmingham, OMG AN OUTRAGE! The fact remains that Birmigham is an ultra-exclusive elitist place to live. They are out of touch with reality, as evident from your posts.



We have a word for that in the hood. It's called a sell out.

Ignorant, classist, and naive, all in the same post. Gee.