overpass collapse

**canuck** · March-05-10, 10:57 AM

I'm sure a lot of detroiters will want to look at this from a standard post-apocalyptic point of view.
I am referrig to today's news about I-94 and I-96 collapse. I hope no one was seriously hurt in the car that fell from the overpass. The weather in Detroit is very similar to ours in Montreal, and it helps to bring things into perspective. A lot of cities went through the same craze of overbuilding and never thought twice about the cost of maintenance back in the day. We have had a growing number of these incidents in the past 5 years to a point where the biggest interchange in the city will be demolished and rebuilt as a ditchlike freeway instead of an elevated one. Here's a report about one overpass collapse a couple of years ago;

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...77009#15077009

The earlier collapse they mention happened while the overpass was being built ten years a go. The contractors had let the structure unhinged. A concrete span was installed over the highway on a friday afternoon without proper structural support and crushed a passing car killing 3 people headed for a formula 1 race in the city. Everytime I drive over and under the Turcot overpasses I wonder if I will make it. It is in a really bad state and is right next to downtown. The nightmare of jackhammer and cranes for the next ten years is daunting. A 42 year old structure eroded by tons of ice, water and salt. The steel structure is corroded and pushes huge chunks of concrete outward.

This is the Turcot interchange slated for demolition and rebuilding[[?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turcot_Interchange

**Gannon** · March-05-10, 11:15 AM

Symptoms of a greater and deeper illness.

This is just the first taste of the collapse of our empire, and an unusually apt metaphor.

**casscorridor** · March-05-10, 01:53 PM

If our governments want to adapt, they ought to be radically shifting transportation allocation, away from new freeway and road construction, and toward mass transit and maintaining the existing roads and bridges we have. Some freeways will need to be removed because they are too costly to maintain. Expansions and extensions will have to be canceled. Hopefully the north I-75 expansion will be canceled! I don't see what is so crazy about every mid to large sized city getting a transit system. The freeways were built almost overnight, why can't the same be done with transit?

Retroit · March-05-10, 02:08 PM

Uh....mass transit needs bridges too.

**wolverine** · March-05-10, 02:11 PM

^ And to be maintained. Here's a rail bridge over Halsted in Chicago. The other pier looks just like it. It's probably okay for now, but will need replacement in a few years.

**EMG** · March-05-10, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

I don't see what is so crazy about every mid to large sized city getting a transit system. The freeways were built almost overnight, why can't the same be done with transit?

Because most people aren't in favor of being forced to subsidize things that don't benefit them and that they are never going to use.

**kryptonite** · March-05-10, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by casscorridor

The freeways were built almost overnight, why can't the same be done with transit?

Duh, hardly. In Detroit alone the Davison was started in the late 1940's, the Lodge shortly after and on and on. The Jeffries was started in the early 70's [[I think) and the last major expressway was I-696 which took a very long time because the east portion was completed in the 70's and the west section in the late 1980's. Not exactly 'overnight'.

Retroit · March-05-10, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

^ And to be maintained. Here's a rail bridge over Halsted in Chicago. The other pier looks just like it. It's probably okay for now, but will need replacement in a few years.

See what happens when evil mass transit tries to drive auto companies out of business. Serves them right. I think I'll start a thread on "Removing Chicago's L-train."

**rodj44137** · March-05-10, 04:24 PM

I am referrig to today's news about I-94 and I-96 collapse. I hope no one was seriously hurt in the car that fell from the overpass.

I now live out of state. Can someone tell me about this collapse? I've checked the News and Free Press websites, but can't find anything about it.
Thanks!

**Maof** · March-05-10, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by rodj44137

I now live out of state. Can someone tell me about this collapse? I've checked the News and Free Press websites, but can't find anything about it.
Thanks!

me too. nothing on the 4 o'clock news

**wolverine** · March-05-10, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

See what happens when evil mass transit tries to drive auto companies out of business. Serves them right. I think I'll start a thread on "Removing Chicago's L-train."

So as long as they reduce the cost of parking downtown.

**Gsgeorge** · March-05-10, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

I am referrig to today's news about I-94 and I-96 collapse. I hope no one was seriously hurt in the car that fell from the overpass.

What on Earth are you taking about? I just drove the interchange today and saw nothing. I checked the news outlets and don't see anything about an overpass collapse. This would be huge news if it happened.

**Gistok** · March-05-10, 08:47 PM

I believe that the interchange in question is the I-94/M-39 [[Southfield Fwy.) interchange. And it has not collapsed, but under some specific [[undetermined) danger. MDOT is investigating, and I believe only I-94 traffic is affect while MDOT does its' study of one of the bridges. Not sure if it's a complete closure or only a reduced lane closure.

DetroitDad · March-05-10, 11:16 PM

It's somewhat part of my job to monitor traffic on these two freeways [[I-96 and I-94).

I-96 was closed for a while due to a roll over accident. Other closures were for scheduled construction. The closing/lane reductions of sections of both of our major East and West bound freeways slowed everybody down, but wasn't that big of a deal. Most people ended up taking the Grand River or Michigan Avenue radials into and out of Downtown, as well as various grid roads. No big issue so long as you heard about the problems, and were aware of Detroit's many redundant roadways.

DetroitDad · March-05-10, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by EMG

Because most people aren't in favor of being forced to subsidize things that don't benefit them and that they are never going to use.

I use it for a backup right now, but am finding my short excursions up the radials to be less stressful, but dislike trips where I have to transfer. In my suburban days, I wouldn't have minded helping to pay for better mass transit if it reduced wear on roads, rush hour traffic, smog, the twice daily gridlock on I-94, I-75, I-696, I-275, Mound Road, Five Mile and Plymouth Road, after any public small or large sporting event, at the local carnival, at the Taco Bell drive thru when the bars let out, etc.

Mass transit that people actually use also does wonders for getting drunks off the road at night, while your sixteen year old daughter is out in a limousine for her high school's homecoming dance.

**mikeg19** · March-06-10, 12:20 AM

Hell I was in Boston this past summer and never used a taxi once. All light rail and subway. Getting around town was so fast as compared to what it would have taken in a car, plus it was really cheap compared to a cab ride. Initially it may seem like a lot in terms of money, but going to a city that actually HAS mass transit really opened my eyes to what the benefits are. We're only about, oh, 30 years behind them.

**wolverine** · March-06-10, 02:33 AM

^ Even better when it's free. Walk and bike everywhere. I have a subway stop about two blocks from my apartment but rarely use it. Still wouldn't mind having a car around for when I need it for trips out of the city. Problem is a parking space is like paying rent.

**Gannon** · March-06-10, 12:09 PM

I used the subway when I lived in LA...had to switch to a bus for my Wilshire Boulevard connection towards Beverly Hills from the Red Line...but it was SUCH a welcome relief from the ugly driving there, it totally changed this Detroit-boy's understanding of public transportation and the absolute NEED for it.

Oddly enough, I suffered some extreme reverse-discrimination on the bus, though. I'd be working on my Palm Pilot and occasionally making phone calls, and when I'd look up I'd have all eyes on me pleading the unspoken judgment, if I could afford THOSE why was I not driving?!

LA is a strange place, and we have that same damn deathly destructive spirit hovering around our consideration of this wonderful socialist ideal. Gee, I wonder why? I declare it to be a sickness, plain and simple selfishness to the extreme.

Anyone opposed to enhanced and upgraded public transportation is simply joining the worst of the population, doing their best to keep those beneath them down and out. I simply cannot understand this sort of behavior.

Cheers

Retroit · March-06-10, 12:31 PM

Television news reported the problem as "crumbling pavement".

**Jimaz** · March-06-10, 03:19 PM

I-94 bridge fixes called 'smart catch'

State officials say a bridge over eastbound Interstate 94 that slightly sank Thursday needs repairs but wasn't about to collapse or endanger motorists.

**daven** · March-06-10, 03:23 PM

Please change the title of this thread. Thanks

**canuck** · March-06-10, 03:33 PM

Sorry for the scary bit about the I-96, There was an accident involving twin brothers when their car
crashed down an embankment. There was a collapse of a couple of inches on the I-94 though.

**wolverine** · March-06-10, 04:34 PM

No you are just exaggerating the problem. The bridge structure deviated from its normal position, and needed to be fixed now rather than later. Not a big deal.

**Sstashmoo** · March-06-10, 05:55 PM

Haven't read the thread, but this was obviously built poorly to begin with. A shearing failure under normal conditions, totally unacceptable.

**ghettopalmetto** · March-06-10, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Haven't read the thread, but this was obviously built poorly to begin with. A shearing failure under normal conditions, totally unacceptable.

Everyone's a God damned engineer, huh?

It's called "maintenance". Every built structure requires it. You think you can just erect steel and leave it outdoors for decades and it will never be subject to deterioration?

If you take all your transportation dollars and put them into new freeways, you don't have money left over to maintain what you have. It's really that simple.

Glad to know that on the basis of reading a thread title, you're able to determine that the bridge suffered a shear failure under normal operating conditions, due to inadequate steel erection. Pretty impressive for someone with no engineering background or experience whatsoever.