2 Detroit teens: I Don't 'Act White' . . . I Don't 'Speak White'

[RealityCheck]

On a brighter note about Detrroit schools, Time' Assignment Detroit blog has a powerful pair of short essays this morning.

Since the beginning of high school three years ago, I've been called white, or it's been said that I "act white," when I say or do something that doesn't fit my designated stereotype as a Detroit-bred, black male teen.

We should want to be known as a group of people who are educated, and who conduct ourselves in a proper fashion — not as people who decided that being that way is a bad thing.

- - Joshua Jamerson, Renaissance high junior, blogging here

I am an African-American, but they say I “speak white.� Since elementary school I have been teased for the way I talk.

. . . I was not accepted as black among my friends. The language I used was just “too proper� to be “black�. That's just sad. It's just hurtful to think that my generation does not believe that using proper English is the way black people should be speaking. What is strange about speaking English correctly? If I am educated, why should I speak as though I am not?

- - Taylor Trammell, Mumford High senior, blogging here

[Mkap]

Bill Cosby would be proud.

[rustic2]

My hope is that an articulate African American president can put this problem to rest by his example. Then again, maybe he's not "black enough."

[Corn.Bot]

I work with a cross-section of public health professionals including social workers, medical staff, and administrators. We are also a cross-section of ethnicities, primarily euro-white, hispanic, and african-american. All of us have a reasonable proficiency with spoken and written English.

Funny thing: If a couple of black individuals sit together as part of a larger group [[i.e., a meeting), they speak in plain, midwestern-accented English to each other. If those same two people are alone in an office, they converse in a very different dialect of English. I'm white. If I happen to join these two in the office, most times, their language reverts to "regular" English as if to include me in their discussion.

Though I never really thought before about black English as a separate language, I mentally compare this phenom to how my mexican-heritage coworkers speak Spanish when they are chatting with each other but seamlessly switch to English to talk to non-hispanic clients or colleagues.

Perhaps african-americans who can effectively speak black as well as regular English should consider themselves bilingual and take pride in their superior communication abilities.

[Neilr]

Motto
Langston Hughes

I play it cool
And dig all jive
That's the reason
I stay alive
My motto
As I live and learn
Is:
Dig And Be Dug
In Return.

[KENSINGTONY]

My Mom ran the personnell records office for the Detroit school system for several years.One of her staff knew Coleman Young well and said that while he was educated and usually spoke very well,on occasion he would revert to "street language" and speech patterns when dealing with certain people or groups.
My girlfriend[[who's black) lives in California and doesn't usually have a black patois unless she gets excited about something and then she slips into black speech patterns and word usage.

[tetsua]

Perhaps african-americans who can effectively speak black as well as regular English should consider themselves bilingual and take pride in their superior communication abilities.

I never thought of it that way, that would mean I speak 4 languages .

Being raised by my English [[originally Jamaican) mother, my sisters and I were all told we talk white going through DPS. It was generally by the most ignorant jokers in the class though, not everybody carried on.

[R8RBOB]

My Mom ran the personnell records office for the Detroit school system for several years.One of her staff knew Coleman Young well and said that while he was educated and usually spoke very well,on occasion he would revert to "street language" and speech patterns when dealing with certain people or groups.
My girlfriend[[who's black) lives in California and doesn't usually have a black patois unless she gets excited about something and then she slips into black speech patterns and word usage.

That's nothing new. Millions of intelligent Black male and females can switch up the "proper English" and "street lingo" when it is needed. You say police, I say police. Someone else say po-po, I say po-po.

http://r8rbob.wordpress.com

[Johnnny5]

The thread reminded of this funny Youtube clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3FW9HJfw0g

Note........ It does contain some foul language.

[bartock]

That's nothing new. Millions of intelligent Black male and females can switch up the "proper English" and "street lingo" when it is needed. You say police, I say police. Someone else say po-po, I say po-po.

http://r8rbob.wordpress.com

Black folks are much better at the "switch up" than white folks are. The white types just try too hard, and stretch the street lingo too far.

That being said, there are legitimate "proper English" and legitimate "street lingo" folks of all races. Kumbaya.

[iheartthed]

I work with a cross-section of public health professionals including social workers, medical staff, and administrators. We are also a cross-section of ethnicities, primarily euro-white, hispanic, and african-american. All of us have a reasonable proficiency with spoken and written English.

Funny thing: If a couple of black individuals sit together as part of a larger group [[i.e., a meeting), they speak in plain, midwestern-accented English to each other. If those same two people are alone in an office, they converse in a very different dialect of English. I'm white. If I happen to join these two in the office, most times, their language reverts to "regular" English as if to include me in their discussion.

Though I never really thought before about black English as a separate language, I mentally compare this phenom to how my mexican-heritage coworkers speak Spanish when they are chatting with each other but seamlessly switch to English to talk to non-hispanic clients or colleagues.

Perhaps african-americans who can effectively speak black as well as regular English should consider themselves bilingual and take pride in their superior communication abilities.

This is probably most pronounced among black Americans because "black English" is by far the most political of all American English dialects, but there are cases of white Americans who do the same.

It's probably not as evident in the Midwest, since the standard American English dialect and accent [[the accent that all national newscasters revert to) originates from the Midwestern U.S. But I often hear white Americans from New Jersey and New York minimizing their "Brooklyn" accents in professional conversation.

[Toolbox]

Excuse me stewardess, I speak jive

[Goose]

Excuse me stewardess, I speak jive

too funny!!!! cutty say he cant hang....

[Ravine]

Pressuring blacks to sound more black, or less white, or whatever, sucks.
However, I don't see anything artificial, phony, or wrong about blacks exhibiting that "switch back and forth" thing. I speak a certain way, at home, that is different from the way I speak when at work. I speak the same way in front of blacks as I do in front of whites, because I'm not into all of that extensive "adjusting for the audience" stuff. However, blacks have a certain way of speaking, when at ease and with each other, that is Their Own Thing, and I don't see a damned thing wrong with it.
The fact that I don't curse a blue streak, when in front of my mother-in-law, does not make me a phony, does it?
So, if blacks have a certain ability to go back and forth between two different dialects, I say good for them.
Speaking on an entirely non-racial basis, the real problem is when we have folks-- from all kinds of backgrounds-- who are so poorly reared and educated that they cannot speak, or write with, proper English, and that's a problem for them, not for the rest of us.
Bottom Line: Blacks pressuring other blacks to not "sound white" is just code for saying, We want you to stay down here with us dumb-asses, and when you use proper English, it makes us feel funny more about ourselves than about you.
Just my cranky opinion.

[kryptonite]

My father was from Tennessee and had a southern accent his entire life. My mother was from Alabama and lost her accent after moving to Detroit.

Dad, however, had a formal accent and an informal accent. He used the latter at home and around other southerners. When he was around native Michigan or Ohio midwesterners he used his more formal speech.

I don't even know if he realized he did that. But I noticed it even as a boy. He fought in WWII and may have learned that habit then.

Nowadays I would love to hear him use some of his southern sayings again.

[Det_ard]

Crabs in a bucket.

[daddeeo]

Just because everyone else around you enjoys being ignorant doesn't mean you have to follow suit.
Some times you have to leave the home boys behind if they insist on staying "real".
Getting out of the ghetto is more than just a physical move it is a mental one too.

[exmotowner]

If I were hiring someone and they came off with "I axed her how she do all dat", that would be all I would need to hear. NOT WORKING FOR ME. [[of course I work with the English language). Sorry to me, it just sounds stupid and ignorant. If your in America and cant speak proper english; like Bill Cosby said "How can you expect your children to get a good job when they cannot form a coherent sentence". Just my feelings.

[Retroit]

Glenn Beck had a program on this topic a few months ago: http://therealbarackobama.wordpress....ember-13-2009/

It was discussed on this DetroitYES! forum: http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=3433

...well, kind of discussed! [[Maybe more like "DetroitYES! at its worst"!)

[Neilr]

One of the difficulties faced by many Detroiters who grow up in poverty is not being able to function in the Formal Register, aka Standard English. While this lack may not have deterred people from getting factory jobs in the auto industry in the past, those days are gone forever and now such young adults will have a very limited chance to be hired for any job that might lead to promotion and a shot at a middle class life.

School texts, standardized tests, job applications, and so on all require fluency in the Formal Register. In addition to that, so much information is conveyed by conversational cues that a person's employment possibilities are frequently determined in the first few brief minutes of an interview.

[EMG]

There are two choices.

Speak standard English.

Or have the appearance of being an illiterate jackass, and be prepared to accept the consequences as far as how one is treated by the rest of the world.

[TKshreve]

People don't "speak black" or "speak white" if you ask me. They speak proper english...... and improper english. Many of the above posts are dead-on about having two strikes against you if you're unable to form a coherent sentence in english. It's actually a very slippery slope if you think about it. And to reitterate an above poster...... I wouldn't hire that someone [unable to speak proper english] either.

Can't we find more diplomatic ways to express our heritage without creating a new language? Unless we want to end up like Yugoslavia, then we had better find less segregated ways of expressing culture and pride.

[TKshreve]

One of the difficulties faced by many Detroiters who grow up in poverty is not being able to function in the Formal Register, aka Standard English. While this lack may not have deterred people from getting factory jobs in the auto industry in the past, those days are gone forever and now such young adults will have a very limited chance to be hired for any job that might lead to promotion and a shot at a middle class life.

There is a lot to be said on this topic as well. With a functioning school system, students would be given the chance to learn the formal register. This is the make-it or break-it chance at pursuing dreams and success. Did older generations of inner city populations have the proper schooling to develop the english light switch? I'd venture to guess that this communication breakdown is grossly enabled by a underfunded and corrupt schools system. I welcome all dissent on this subject. Learn me.

[tetsua]

I have English relatives who would be laughing at the way some of you are calling ANY English spoken in America "proper English". The word proper, when it comes to language is relative. Proper to me is only the way the dominant group of people in a region speaks a language.

[TKshreve]

I have English relatives who would be laughing at the way some of you are calling ANY English spoken in America "proper English". The word proper, when it comes to language is relative. Proper to me is only the way the dominant group of people in a region speaks a language.

OK - The dialect seen on American Idol and The Bachelor. Better?