Better Concept _Give abandoned homes to Undocumented Aliens

[Ocean2026]

The city workers probably already have a home and they know the city too well to want to live in many of the areas.

Undocumented workers from Mexico and Central America, would love those homes and they are really adept at fixing them up. Soon Latin restaurants [[very tasty and reasonable) would spring up and there would be cheap carpenters would be available and the building materials stores would have lots of business.

When the INS hears about it -they would increase their presence in the area - pouring some needed federal funds. Of course they won't dare enter the nastier neighborhoods but pity the poor undocumented alien caught at a Tiger Game or in Ren Center!

Many of you have little experience with undocumented people,however I have represented them for many years and lived in areas where they are prevalent. They are the nicest people and commit way less crime than Americans in their same economic class.

As for those who hate them- observe. Many who want the aliens out are at the bottom rung of the socio -economic ladder. They didn't bother to get an education and yes their jobs may be threatened by someone who will work harder. Look at how these "haters" write- many are illiterate.

Let's be really honest here -Detroit if you saw the Pew Research has 8% of the nation who thinks its a good place to live and 88% or so opposed, finishing dead last. Texans, Californians etc are not going to move up to Detroit-ever..

Why not get some really nice people who would think those $500 houses are palaces. People who's neighborhoods would be safe.. and clean.

[LodgeDodger]

Undocumented=illegal.

[Russix]

They already do.

[Ocean2026]

Lodge- Really?? - no kidding?

I guess because nothing else illegal is going on in those neighborhoods with abandoned houses Detroit better keep its image clean.

I suppose if you saw those houses fixed up with families in them - you'd still look down your nose and say "There goes the neighborhood!"

Get over it ! Almost every study shows that ILLEGAL aliens -while one can make arguments both ways as to their immediate economic, the second generation - is clearly a great benefit as those kids go for education so they don't have to do the same jobs that their parents did.

[Sludgedaddy]

Zeta Reticulians and Tau Cetis make good neighbors and their work ethic is light years ahead of most Americans and Earthlings in general. Green skinned Orion Slave girls would make common Detroit street walkers pale in comparision. The local economy would get a jump start when the City Airport becomes a Spaceport. Changing the name from the Coleman A. Young Airport to the Klaatu Terminal would also be a draw. And with new immigrants ,all alien and undocumented, from all corners of the galaxy think of all the new ethnic slurs that will be added to the lexicon. All living together long and prospering.

[LodgeDodger]

Lodge- Really?? - no kidding?

I guess because nothing else illegal is going on in those neighborhoods with abandoned houses Detroit better keep its image clean.

I suppose if you saw those houses fixed up with families in them - you'd still look down your nose and say "There goes the neighborhood!"

Get over it ! Almost every study shows that ILLEGAL aliens -while one can make arguments both ways as to their immediate economic, the second generation - is clearly a great benefit as those kids go for education so they don't have to do the same jobs that their parents did.

Honey, you really need to begin weaning yourself off whatever it is you're smoking.

[Ocean2026]

Lodge - well you are Detroit and its fair to assume you have been giving Detroit your opinions for some years -maybe you are even active in public policy [[ am I giving you too much credit?).


How has Detroit and those neighborhoods been doing? Happy with the results?


Hmm maybe I'm not reading between the lines enough when you ask me to "wean myself of what I've been smoking" Perhaps you want to smoke a little so you can come finally up with real ideas for improvement. Once again - How long have you been there? Satisfied with the "progress?"

[LodgeDodger]

Lodge - well you are Detroit and its fair to assume you have been giving Detroit your opinions for some years -maybe you are even active in public policy [[ am I giving you too much credit?).


How has Detroit and those neighborhoods been doing? Happy with the results?


Hmm maybe I'm not reading between the lines enough when you ask me to "wean myself of what I've been smoking" Perhaps you want to smoke a little so you can come finally up with real ideas for improvement. Once again - How long have you been there? Satisfied with the "progress?"

You forget one major point--illegal aliens are not supposed to be here. The law is the law. This is my point.

[Ocean2026]

I didn't forget your puny point _Criminals aren't supposed to be there either which do you prefer a neighborhood full of abandoned houses with crack access and scrappers- or Mexican families sitting on their porches chatting with neighbors?

I see your point. Perhaps if you saw a little old lady on the other side of the street about to be harassed by thugs you wouldn't help -as your point would be " I can't jaywalk to go help her - its against the law"

[Bigb23]

Ocean2026, you're playing in a fantasy league. We're now on to you. Thanks for nothing.

[Ocean2026]

Well this fantasy league with its threads has had hundreds of players- maybe fantasy is fun.

On a more serious note - a problem could come up recruiting illegal aliens as someone could be charged with "conspiracy" in Federal court of course they would have to show we were actively recruiting ILLEGALs as opposed to all Hispanics in the areas where undocumented aliens congregate..

Ok you don't like fantasy- tell me your original ideas to fix Detroit...

[stnfrnt]

Ocean2026........I have been living in Southern California for over 30 years now, so I feel eminently qualified to speak on this matter. I do not claim to to be an expert on anything other than what I have personally witnessed and experienced.as it relates to illegal aliens and their impact on America. To me, knowledge gained in this manner is far more useful, truthful, clear and unadulterated than a study/survey because it is knowledge and information that is real. It's not some Pew Research result that, when you get a moment, you can shove up your culo, amigo.
Here are some questions I have that maybe you could help me out with by answering truthfully.
1) Are you an illegal alien?
2) Exactly what do you mean when you say you have "represented them for many years"?
3) Do you have a law degree of some sort that qualifies you to advocate for illegal aliens in
a court of law, or are you just trying to blow smoke up my ass?
4) Are you aware of how atrocious your own grammar, sentence structure and punctuation
really is?
5) Could you comprehend a plan that would give said homes to homeless Veterans,
families with children sleeping in cars, elderly and indigent souls who are real American
citizens and have been so for years?
6) Are you at all aware of the resentment and hostility that would be introduced into an
already desperate community should your wish somehow be granted?
7) What in the hell are you talking about when you say "when the IRS hears about it-they
would increase their presence in the area-pouring some needed federal funds"?

I now offer some observations and facts that, hopefully, may cause you to reconsider your position on these matters. "Observe"
1) Take a look at parts of Southern California, Tijiuana, Juarez and other towns in Mexico
and you can see for yourself how adept "they" really are at "fixing up" a house. It's a joke!
2) The California Educational System, arguably one of the worst in the nation, has attained
that rather dubious status in large part, and I'm talking huge here, due to the incredible
burden illegal aliens force on the system because they don't/won't speak English. Students
who do speak and understand English end up with a learning curve that is impeded
by 60-75% because classes must be bi-lingual. What's up with that?!
3) Your positive spin on the economic contributions a "second generation" illegal alien
will make because they "go for education so they don't have to do the same jobs their
parents did" is total, complete and unadulterated bullshit! Like I said before, I've been living
in Southern California for over 30yrs. That's the equivalent of three "second generations"
and there is absolutely no economic benefit of any kind being enjoyed by anybody as a
result of an illegal alien "going for the education etc." Recent figures compiled by the
RAND Institute [[Phillip J. Romero: research economist) show that illegal aliens in the
state of California alone receive between $10 and $38 billion more in state services than
they pay in taxes!! {www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories}. Try as I may, I cannot find one
single study anywhere that shows me that illegal aliens are an "economic benefit" to any
culture in this universe.
Make no mistake, please. I am not immune to compassion and understanding when it comes to the human condition. I have seen, firsthand, human misery and suffering to a degree far greater than any
discussion about the plight [[?) of illegal aliens will attain. I am a Viet Nam combat veteran diagnosed with a disability as a result of that experience, and I want Ocean2026 and others to know that I did not put my ass on the line fighting for this country to have the American Dream handed to some illegal alien who happened to sneak across the border.
Ocean2026.......I respect your opinions because they are yours and should be recognized as such.
Please remember this, if you would. Those "haters" you mentioned, the ones on the bottom rung of the socio-economic ladder; you know, the ones you determined are illiterate by the way they write. They did all that stuff in English. Yup, they sure did.

[stnfrnt]

Bigb23.......what's up? Is this guy a kick or what?

[Ocean2026]

Well let's answer your major questions:

Am I an illegal alien - NO

Do I have some degree that allows me to practice law. Yes ! [[ IU JD and a few grad degrees) In fact I have been practicing since 1979 and I am fluent in Spanish [[ but not Hispanic) and so I've been able communicate with them on all sorts of issues. In one part of Texas Denton & Colin Counties I was the only [[ maybe one other ) atty who spoke Spanish and the two counties had by census estimates 25,000 non english speaking hispanics. You lived in Southern Cal and you know about Juarez? I lived 6 blocks from the border -hawthorne and Yandell in El P 79902 [[ 70-73 80-86 and a bit in the 90s) I go back [[home) all the time.

My writing here is pretty shorthand but I can answer the comment about Can I write and do I have any other qualifications that make me some sort of expert in this area by linking a column I ran which appeared at the end of last year in over 20 major papers [[ I didn't think of the Free Press or the Northeast although the NY Daily News had it either online edition or in print.

Here's one from the San Antonio Express -News
http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion
/Border_fence_makes_for_bad_neighbors.html

Here is one in the Rocky Mountion News Colorados' biggest paper until it folded a month or two ago

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...wn-border-fen/


I really think some of you are in denial, there were three recent articles that pointed to just how bad things have gotten . 1. The Real estate sales results this month which show a 50% decline and a $5800 median house price
2. Detroit News story on which people are the ones leaving- those with jobs and education not retired people as previously imagined. #3 and yes that Pew Survey - now you can say in bold words "stick that survey" and sound really macho, what I'd like you to demonstrate is any faults or bias in the methodology- that's more impressive than the tough guy behind the anonymous screen name thing. If its bad - show me.

This is your pattern your M.O. you don't like something and instead of showing the methodological problems it might have- you get the macho thing. The same with the Heritage and Cato foundation both showed the 2nd generation [[ mayeb Rand was one of them) did especially well.

I suggest more people think out of the box but I will also make the same comment to you as the two others.

What is your plan?

[oladub]

Many bank robbers are really nice people. Some work very hard to get through massive concrete and steel. Why waste the talent of these hard-working really nice people? Instead of punishing them, they should be given bank accounts and jobs at banks. They would love those banks and fix them! Then they could all be productive taxpayers and raise children who could someday work for Goldman-Sachs and presidents. Get over it ! Almost every study shows that ILLEGAL bank robbers acceptance is clearly a great benefit for their kids education so they don't have to do the same jobs that their parents did.

Which do you prefer? Banks with holes in their vaults or bankers' families sitting on their porches chatting with neighbors? When the Senate Banking Committee hears about it -they would increase their presence in the area - pouring some needed federal funds. Of course they won't dare enter the nastier neighborhoods but pity the poor bankrobber caught in a bank vault!

[Ocean2026]

Do you know any bank robbers? Are there extra banks sitting around with money? Dumb analogy. There are thousands of empty houses that need to be fixed and sitting and not producing any tax revenue- that's why YOUR TAXES are 3 or 4 times what they are in many other states- including Texas.

ENJOY [[ but you're the one being robbed)

[6nois]

Ocean, I know for a fact that there are many very qualified and capable people here in Detroit, making this city a better place every day. I have had the honor to work with many of them over the last three months. Also in the last few months I feel a shift of perspective has begun to happen where people are seeing some traditionally negative aspects of the city as assets. IE low real estate prices, place $100 dollar house/powerhouse story here. Cities are always evolving and changing, growing and shrinking. No matter what people think we are not Doomed for ever.

Now I would venture to guess that alot of the hostility that you are getting is from your attitude. You are acting like a savior for the poor and lowly Detroiters who can not take care of anything themselves. You have to knock that off. Yes some of us are quite Jaded but you try living here for thirty years and be sunshine about everything. It's not going to happen. If you want to actively engage us talk to us like people. You don't have to move here but don't act like you have all the answers to Detroits problems from afar and you can bestow them upon us through the interweb. Many of these ideas have already been discussed.

I would argue you are going about this wrong. Detroit should be courting immigrants but not specifically the illegal type. We should have ambassadors in countries and areas that already have populations here, Juarez Mexico as an example. A large percentage of immigrants in S.W. Detroit come from that area. We should work with that fact, and go to them to sell ourselves. That would be economic development done well.

[irish_mafia]

How about we take the illegal aliens and the broken down houses and ship them all to Tijuana along with MonCon and the rest of iliterate criminals running this city?

That would be a good start.

[Ocean2026]

6 nois I don't reallly disagree with you. Yes we should go after all immigrants and as I did explain - we can't target illegal ones. Yeah I do have a bit of attitude but much of it is facetious and its hard to communicate it well online.

I wouldn't want to buy a nice old building and have criminals ransack it however. Id' much rather have some people living there in return for fix up, and frankly the last thing I care about is what their passport says. Are they honest? Can they work and improve? Would they be happy there? Let politicians worry about their legal status.

[East Detroit]

There goes Ocean again with the combination of armchair carpetbagging and slamming Detroit in the same post. Next post he will be back to asking for pictures of a pick for his fantasy real estate... because he doesn't live here, never did and probably never will.

[Bcscott]

Talk about living in a fantasy world. Ocean, these people are here illegally that means they have shit jobs if they even have jobs at all. No job/benefits means on the tax payer dole. The tax base to provide said benefits is shrinking on a daily basis. How on Earth is it a boon to the city to have even more people here looking for a hand out? And your comparison of crackheads versus friendly Mexican families chatting on their porch is so far into the Twilight Zone it isn't even relevant. Yeah, good thing those illegal aliens never sell drugs, drink and drive, rape, murder, and steal. They just sit on their porch and chat.

[Bigb23]

There goes Ocean again with the combination of armchair carpetbagging and slamming Detroit in the same post. Next post he will be back to asking for pictures of a pick for his fantasy real estate... because he doesn't live here, never did and probably never will.

That was apparent early on, he plays on a online Real Estate fantasy league, and throws inane questions out to the people who live here. Stonefront - thank you for you're service in Nam. I was off the coast, and my brother was in Binh Thuy. [[Mekong Delta, PBR), Detroit is a mess right now, and there is no quick fix. But having Real Estate speculators seems a little over the top and hard to deal with now.

[Ocean2026]

East Detroit I see you're out of the closet now- however there was a thread for you to defend yourself which Lowell eventually took your name off it. Of course having to respond to basic economics was way above your ability, so you hid for a few weeks. Go find it and have the courage to respond to the arguments as well as the others who agreed you were clueless.

[LodgeDodger]

I didn't forget your puny point _Criminals aren't supposed to be there either which do you prefer a neighborhood full of abandoned houses with crack access and scrappers- or Mexican families sitting on their porches chatting with neighbors?

I see your point. Perhaps if you saw a little old lady on the other side of the street about to be harassed by thugs you wouldn't help -as your point would be " I can't jaywalk to go help her - its against the law"

You're an idiot. You are an officer of the court, correct? One would think an officer of the court wouldn't encourage illegal activity.

Perhaps you should spend time in Detroit before spewing your ideas of improvement for the city. As for my background, it's none of your business. I have no need to justify my opinions to someone like yourself. My point was, the law is the law. Someone who is here illegally, shouldn't be welcomed with open arms.

[Bearinabox]

I am a Viet Nam combat veteran diagnosed with a disability as a result of that experience, and I want Ocean2026 and others to know that I did not put my ass on the line fighting for this country to have the American Dream handed to some illegal alien who happened to sneak across the border.

So those of us who happened to be born in America are somehow more entitled to "the American Dream" than everyone else? I'm not sure I really follow the logic of that argument. Are you saying that you earned the right to "the American Dream" by serving in the military? If so, are you equally incensed about "the American Dream" being "handed to" lazy-ass Americans like me who never served in the military? Please explain.