Preservation Wayne theater tour question[[GISTOK)?

**exmotowner** · March-02-10, 11:04 AM

I am coming up for it and I seen on their web site where the tour sells out every year and you need to get tickets early. I will be driving up from Nashville for it. I dont want to get there just to be told the tour is sold out. Can someone please tell me how/where to order tickets for the tour in advance. Thanks, EX

LodgeDodger · March-02-10, 12:15 PM

This was directed at Gistok, but I'll answer...

Call Preservation Wayne and purchase your tickets:

313-577-7674

http://preservationwayne.org/

**Pam** · March-02-10, 01:59 PM

I think they take reservations over the website too, when it gets closer to the tour day. [[April/May if I recall correctly.)

**exmotowner** · March-02-10, 02:22 PM

I called, and they put me on the list, but cant get tickets until June. Thanks to all who replied.

**Gistok** · March-02-10, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by exmotowner

I called, and they put me on the list, but cant get tickets until June. Thanks to all who replied.

Exmotowner... you didn't hear this one from me...

... but in the 11 years of doing the theatre tours I am not aware of ANYONE ever being turned away from a theatre tour... some people may have had to wait for the next 1/2 hour tour [[this won't happen to folks with reservations however), but I'm not aware of any last minute [[no reservations) show-ups ever getting turned away.

The 4 1/2 hour tours start at 9:00AM, 9:30, 10:00, 10:30, 11:00 and last tour starts at 11:30. PW "tries" to keep each group to 30 people or less. Since the earlier tours are more fully booked up, there's always the next tour. I doubt anyone ever had to wait more than 45 minutes for a tour though.

One likely reason we haven't turned folks away is that the last [[11:30AM) tour is usually the least booked up. But reservations guarantee you a specific tour time... and [[very important)... the availability of a box lunch at the Detroit Opera House [[these have to be pre-ordered!).

Also... the reason that the tours are usually the 2nd Saturday of August is that getting all the theatres available is nearly impossible [[on a Saturday) during other times of the year.

**Lowell** · March-02-10, 10:41 PM

What a great problem to have. It is a real tribute to the success and inspired activities of Preservation Wayne. Groups like them and many others are what make Detroit so wonderful.

**buildingsofdetroit** · March-02-10, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

What a great problem to have. It is a real tribute to the success and inspired activities of Preservation Wayne. Groups like them and many others are what make Detroit so wonderful.

Tell that to George Jackson. If you haven't seen his rant on "so-called preservationists" during the second half of this "ABJ" interview, you should: http://www.dptv.org/ondemand/abj/abjvodlg.shtml

**exmotowner** · March-03-10, 08:11 AM

When I talked to the lady at preservation Wayne, I mentioned the UA to her and she said she would see if "Mike" would ask the iliches about seeing it. I know that wont happen, but just a thought. I know NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Thanks Gistok [[and everyone else who replied). I'll make sure to make and keep a reservation though.

LodgeDodger · March-03-10, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by exmotowner

When I talked to the lady at preservation Wayne, I mentioned the UA to her and she said she would see if "Mike" would ask the iliches about seeing it. I know that wont happen, but just a thought. I know NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Thanks Gistok [[and everyone else who replied). I'll make sure to make and keep a reservation though.

The PW folks will do their best, trust me. ;-)

**exmotowner** · March-03-10, 11:59 AM

That would be sweet huh.

LodgeDodger · March-03-10, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by exmotowner

That would be sweet huh.

If not this year, then possibly next. Sometimes planting the seed is all it takes.

PQZ · March-03-10, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

What a great problem to have. It is a real tribute to the success and inspired activities of Preservation Wayne. Groups like them and many others are what make Detroit so wonderful.

Yes it is truly wonderful that Preservation Wayne charges money to walk people through the theaters that private developers have restored and to have lunch in an Opera House whose restoration was largely funded by the very organizations they criticize for being anti-preservation.

What a truly wonderful and useful thing for them to do as their marquee event.

Compare that sterling accomplishment to what other cities have done...like say Preservation Greensboro...
http://www.blandwood.org/

Yes they offer walking tours and home tours but they have also bought and preserved an architecturally significant manison that is now open as a museum. They also run an architectural salvage warehouse and give grants to owners working to restore significant structures. They also identify, puchase and flip significant buildings - all with funds they have raised in a COUNTY of less than 470,000 people.

Its time to stop giving out particpation trophies on web forums and start challenging the preservation community in Detroit to stand up and take it to the next level. Andy Griffith is leaving you in the dust...

**Gistok** · March-03-10, 05:16 PM

I agree with PQZ that it would be nice if PW did more towards historic preservation, but alas they don't have rich donors to fund many of its' activities. They rely on tours and membership dues... and in this economy, that has been a shrinking market.

Even architectural salvage would be nice. But in a city like Detroit, where scalpers are a lower priority on the already thinly stretched police protection totum pole, it becomes difficult to do so. I wonder if any offer was made by the DEGC to allow anyone to salvage any parts of the Lafayette Building? Those beautiful Fleur-de-lis on top of the building would have been nice to salvage.

I remember the rather ugly row when Preservation Wayne asked if they could preserve the fancy arched entrance of the Madison-Lenox as the building was being razed. The Ilitch's gave their OK, but when the city ordered demolition folks were approached, their reply was to smash the ornate arch with a back-hoe.

So the preservation "mentality" among public and private interests in Greensboro [[as well as nearby Winston-Salem, where 18th century "Old Salem" has been lovingly preserved) is probably a few notches higher than here in Detroit. Sad but true.

**detourdetroit** · March-03-10, 05:28 PM

and it seems george jackson has christened himself the only true preservationist in this town. so take that you "so called" preservationists...

**swingline** · March-03-10, 05:52 PM

PQZ makes some valid points about the unrealized potential of an organization like Preservation Wayne. Moreover, everyone should realize that his hypersensitivity to any criticism of DEGC policies only occurs because that organization has achieved a level of infallibility and success unmatched around the country.

Seeing as we're benchmarking here, I'll see if I can pull out my file on the City of Charlotte/Mecklenburg County Economic Development Office and the City of Greensboro EDO to tally up the tens of millions of dollars they have spent on CBD/Center City demolitions as they follow the DEGC model in creating developer-ready land parcels. I know that file is here somewhere. Their demolition budgets are gi-normous.

LodgeDodger · March-03-10, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by swingline

PQZ makes some valid points about the unrealized potential of an organization like Preservation Wayne. Moreover, everyone should realize that his hypersensitivity to any criticism of DEGC policies only occurs because that organization has achieved a level of infallibility and success unmatched around the country.

Seeing as we're benchmarking here, I'll see if I can pull out my file on the City of Charlotte/Mecklenburg County Economic Development Office and the City of Greensboro EDO to tally up the tens of millions of dollars they have spent on CBD/Center City demolitions as they follow the DEGC model in creating developer-ready land parcels. I know that file is here somewhere. Their demolition budgets are gi-normous.

Preservation takes money.

I was ready to launch into a tirade against you folks, then decided it wasn't worth getting banned.

**detourdetroit** · March-04-10, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by LodgeDodger

Preservation takes money.

I was ready to launch into a tirade against you folks, then decided it wasn't worth getting banned.

right, preservation does take money. but which have we spent more on? demolition or preservation? look where it's gotten us.

PQZ · March-04-10, 09:31 AM

I agree with PQZ that it would be nice if PW did more towards historic preservation, but alas they don't have rich donors to fund many of its' activities. They rely on tours and membership dues... and in this economy, that has been a shrinking market.

PGI raised their money 25 years ago by having a plan and vision. You cannot tell me that in a county of [[at the time) 300,000 people that they were all so rich they were able to buy the equivalent of the Hecker House when 1 million + in Wayne County can't raise funds to put together a decent strategic plan or even an architectural salvage operation.

Pure and utter bullshit.

Always an excuse, never an action plan.

LodgeDodger · March-04-10, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by PQZ

PGI raised their money 25 years ago by having a plan and vision. You cannot tell me that in a county of [[at the time) 300,000 people that they were all so rich they were able to buy the equivalent of the Hecker House when 1 million + in Wayne County can't raise funds to put together a decent strategic plan or even an architectural salvage operation.

Pure and utter bullshit.

Always an excuse, never an action plan.

What color is the sky on your planet, PQZ? Are you active in the Detroit Preservation efforts? Perhaps you are affiliated with another group?

PQZ · March-04-10, 11:16 AM

What color is the sky on your planet, PQZ? Are you active in the Detroit Preservation efforts? Perhaps you are affiliated with another group?

The sky is a crystal clear blue. I am no longer in Detroit but when I was there I was quite active in preservation efforts from the public / private side.

While I was in Detroit, for politeness and protocol, I held back on the critiques of what is a largely ineffectual preservation community that spends more time simpering and complaining that it does in action.

My point is that Gistok whines that rich people in Greensboro supported PGI and that Detroit is full of poors that don't support preservation.

Horseshit. Wayne County is three times the size of Guilford County and has the Grosse Pointes and the western suburbs. The Detroit Metro area is more than 10 times the size of the Greesnboro metropolitan area and includes one of the wealthiest per capita counties in the US.

The reason PGI got it done is they spent their time developing and thinking through good solid plans. They set achievable goals and worked towards them. They built credibility. Its NOTHING unique. Hundreds of communites across the country have done the same with similar or less resources. The Detroit preservation community has not anything with its potential resources, despite a large and monied metropolitan area...

Perhaps the donors aren't there because they don't see a plan, a track record or credibility. They arecertainly there for the other civic institutions and other non-profits like Greening of Detroit. The argument that no-one values preservation in Detroit or that no-one has any money in Detroit is a steaming crock of shit.

The money is there, the interst is there, the organization isn't.

Lots of time spent printing t-shirts, writing anry screeds on forums and no actual planning or working.

**Fnemecek** · March-04-10, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by PQZ

Yes it is truly wonderful that Preservation Wayne charges money to walk people through the theaters that private developers have restored and to have lunch in an Opera House whose restoration was largely funded by the very organizations they criticize for being anti-preservation.

Largely funded?

Well, "largely" is a relative term. The DEGC put $150,000 in facade improvements into the Detroit Opera House and then loaned them an additional $1.5 million.

To put that in perspective, the DEGC's total commitment to the Detroit Opera House was less than half of what it spent to convert the Statler Hilton Hotel into a vacant lot.

**Fnemecek** · March-04-10, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by PQZ

The reason PGI got it done is they spent their time developing and thinking through good solid plans. They set achievable goals and worked towards them. They built credibility. Its NOTHING unique. Hundreds of communites across the country have done the same with similar or less resources.

There was something quite similar to that in the Detroit area. It was called the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy.

PQZ · March-04-10, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

There was something quite similar to that in the Detroit area. It was called the Old Tiger Stadium Conservancy.

The credible organization that could not launch a basic website to collect donations in an eleven month span?

See earlier comment about reaching achievable goals. If you can't even build a basic website to collect donations why the fuck should anyone take the orgnization seriously?

And it not just me. Search the archives on this forum and you will see complaint after complaint after complaint about people WANTING to help and donate and the OTSC not being abole to even get a paypal account up.

But boy did the Preservation Coalition ever write a great letter six weeks after demo started!

Stosh · March-04-10, 05:21 PM

Looking at the website of Preservation Wayne, I at am a loss to figure out exactly what they really DO. I'm not throwing grapes, LD, but just an observation on 30+ years of PW's accomplishments. Having no blog entries at all for over a year tells me that there's a hunk of trouble brewing there.

I mean, sure, advocacy, and the tours immediately come to mind. Other than paying the salary of a director, and whatever incidentals, what else is there?

I'd sooner see them attempt to do something concrete. I like the sound of what they have done in Guiliford County, PQZ, and I'll bet that if there were attempts at such a venture here, it would go a long way toward increasing PW's visibility and viability.

Sometimes, something solid that you can wrap your arms around is better than all the grand plans a group may have. The OTSC is a good case in point, shoulda, coulda, woulda.. The key to all of this is simple really, in the words of Yoda:

"Do or do not... there is no try.",

**Gistok** · March-04-10, 06:55 PM

Stosh, in the past [[before major loft development took place downtown) Preservation Wayne offered the public some Loft Development Workshops. There was a lot of interest by developers and these helped spur interest in loft development downtown in recent years.

PW hasn't gotten into the bricks-and-mortar issues as some conservancy groups have, but they have done a lot to promote the surviving historic fabric of the city. We volunteered and cleaned out the city owned National Theatre on a weekend back in 2000. There must have been 20 tons of debris in the interior [[lots of fallen ruined plasterwork). And there are countless other projects that we've contributed manpower towards.

PW also heavily promoted the surviving mansions on Ferry Ave. Today, with the help of the DIA [[and their 4 mansion Inn on Ferry Ave.) as well as other developers building quality infill housing, that street looks better than it has in decades.

PQZ bitches about the grousing on this forum... but only a small fraction of members here are PW members.

Another issue is that the Detroit preservation community is rather fragmented... there's PW, Cityscape, DAADS [[Detroit Area Art Deco Society) and other smaller groups. It would be nice to combine efforts under say.... a Detroit Conservacy Group... but that's not my call.

But PW does try to promote the gems of Detroit. But that doesn't get as much press as say... New York photographer/artist Jose Camille Vargara, who proposed downtown become the abandoned American Acropolis.... or DEGC, who has let trees grow out of their building tops and it becomes pathetic headlines in some of the nations major dailies [[would it have killed them to get some pruning shears and a saw??).