Quicken ups total to be moved downtown

**Scottathew** · March-02-10, 09:15 PM

Detroit needs more office buildings just like it needs more houses.

I would rather see Quicken fill up existing space or renovate existing buildings.

If Quicken builds, then another building will go empty. If Quicken rehabs or uses existing space then downtown will have a high occupancy rate. Building just doesn't make sense.

I wish good luck to anyone relocating their business to Detroit. This is what Detroit needs. Even if Quicken decides to build, which I think isn't the best solution, it's still better for Detroit than Quicken staying in the suburbs.

I live in the suburbs and I've come to the realization that kicking Detroit in the groin while they're down is not only hurting Detroit, it's hurting Warren, Troy, Redford, etc... We need a strong core to our Metro-area. Many [[the vast majority) of the solutions to Detroit's problems need to be made from within it's borders, but also some of the solution must come from the suburbs.

We need a vibrant downtown with fast, efficient mass transit that doesn't compete with road traffic [[elevated rail, subway, both) that connects the suburbs with downtown.

**stasu1213** · March-03-10, 06:15 AM

What about the old JL Hudson site. That could be used. There are already beams protruding out of the ground. Does anyone have any idea what those beams are for? Part of that site could be nice for a 2 story building to sit on. That is all the space Quicken Loan need

**Scottathew** · March-03-10, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

What about the old JL Hudson site. That could be used. There are already beams protruding out of the ground. Does anyone have any idea what those beams are for? Part of that site could be nice for a 2 story building to sit on. That is all the space Quicken Loan need

I think the company totals over 4000 people, I don't know if that would be enough.

I would rather the land sit vacant until a nice tall building is needed. I don't think a two story building would be a good fit for downtown.

**esp1986** · March-03-10, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

What about the old JL Hudson site. That could be used. There are already beams protruding out of the ground. Does anyone have any idea what those beams are for? Part of that site could be nice for a 2 story building to sit on. That is all the space Quicken Loan need

The beams are there so that any future development can be attached to the existing garage beneath... the garage can support up to an 18 story building...

it would be foolish, however, to put an office building there... that spot once anchored retail on Woodward, and unless that is what it does, there is little chance of a revival of Merchant's Row.

**Caseyc** · March-03-10, 10:55 AM

Gilbert is a lot of talk, I'll say that much. Who could forget "Detroit 2.0" and the big proclamations for that? And if your response to that is "oh hey, the great recession intervened," I'll point to a million square, foot 41 story, LEED certified office tower going up outside my window in Cincinnati. http://www.queencitysquare.com/ He seems to be simply playing a waiting game and angling for the best deal possible. And he can wait forever if necessary--we've seen this act before in Detroit development. People are going to need to prostrate themselves at his feet with a cornucopia basket overflowing with incentives, tax breaks and giveaways before he pulls the trigger.

And the type of speculation below is little more than wishful thinking.

While that would be the best thing if they solely needed office space, based on past comments by Dan Gilbert, he is seeking to build a multi-faceted development, which will, not coincidentally, include the Quicken compound. He has indicated he wants an entertainment based development that will attract young people to downtown, and since the development would be so big, the city had offered him 3 of the largest lots in town, the Hudson, Monroe and Statler blocks.

Same old dysfunction. Big announcements followed by inertia. Who's ready for Cadillac Square?

**Hermod** · March-03-10, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Caseyc

He seems to be simply playing a waiting game and angling for the best deal possible. And he can wait forever if necessary--we've seen this act before in Detroit development. People are going to need to prostrate themselves at his feet with a cornucopia basket overflowing with incentives, tax breaks and giveaways before he pulls the trigger.

Maybe if the kleptocracy running Detroit greeted new development with a little more "prostrating" and a lot less "what's in it for me personally", developers might see Detroit as something other than a gigantic pit into which they are required to pour money.

**EL Jimbo** · March-03-10, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

There was speculation last week that perhaps Gilbert would sell the Cavs and buy the Pistons, kind of like John Henry did in MLB with the Marlins and Red Sox.

Don't overlook the fact that Rock Financial was a major sponsor of the Pistons well before Dan bought the Cleveland team. In the paper today, he said he wants to see a new stadium downtown and noted that Detroit and Sacramento are the only markets where the teams play out in the boonies.

Actually, it would probably be in his best interests to sell the Cavs now. Lebron's can exercise a player option on his contract and enter free agency at the end of the season. He's likely heading for a bigger market [[New York, Miami, or LA). The Cavs will never be more valuable than what they are now and once Lebron leaves that value should plummet quickly as jersey and other Cav merchandise sales diminish.

Gilbert could turnaround and pickup the Pistons, as well as the entire Palace Entertainment Empire,"on the cheap". At that point they could figure out what they want to do in terms of coordinating on a new stadium and the interests of both Olympia and Palace entertainment.

Of course the question would still remain as to what to do with the Palace.

**Caseyc** · March-03-10, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Maybe if the kleptocracy running Detroit greeted new development with a little more "prostrating" and a lot less "what's in it for me personally", developers might see Detroit as something other than a gigantic pit into which they are required to pour money.

yeah...that's the back end of the basket. The pointy one they use when they say "bend over." Kind of a two-step process.

**iheartthed** · March-03-10, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by EL Jimbo

Actually, it would probably be in his best interests to sell the Cavs now. Lebron's can exercise a player option on his contract and enter free agency at the end of the season. He's likely heading for a bigger market [[New York, Miami, or LA). The Cavs will never be more valuable than what they are now and once Lebron leaves that value should plummet quickly as jersey and other Cav merchandise sales diminish.

Gilbert could turnaround and pickup the Pistons, as well as the entire Palace Entertainment Empire,"on the cheap". At that point they could figure out what they want to do in terms of coordinating on a new stadium and the interests of both Olympia and Palace entertainment.

Of course the question would still remain as to what to do with the Palace.

Honestly, the Cavs ain't really worth that much even with Lebron. Yeah, they have a temporary uptick in merchandise sales because of him, but they aren't really building a brand there.

**Scottathew** · March-03-10, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

The beams are there so that any future development can be attached to the existing garage beneath... the garage can support up to an 18 story building...

it would be foolish, however, to put an office building there... that spot once anchored retail on Woodward, and unless that is what it does, there is little chance of a revival of Merchant's Row.

It doesn't have to be all office. Make the bottom 1-3 floors retail space and 4-18 office.

**leland_palmer** · March-11-10, 06:23 PM

Fathead is on the way too.

[[AP) — Detroit is about to get a Fathead.

Fathead L.L.C. makes life-size, three-dimensional wall graphics featuring popular athletes, team logos and entertainment stars. It plans to move its headquarters to downtown Detroit from Livonia.

Roughly 50 employees will be relocating along with online mortgage giant Quicken Loans Inc., both of which are part of the business empire of Dan Gilbert. Livonia-based Quicken Loans previously announced it's moving its headquarters and 1,700 employees downtown by July 1.

Gilbert is Quicken's founder and made the announcement Thursday while speaking to the Detroit Economic Club. He's also majority owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Gilbert says Fathead's annual revenues approach $30 million.

**lo_to_d** · March-11-10, 10:11 PM

Keep it coming, all of his enterprises, then Piston's, then EPrize, who else can he convince?

gravitymachine · March-11-10, 11:45 PM

detroit rises, its time to live!

**Detroitej72** · March-12-10, 10:48 AM

Companies such as Fathead and eprize are the kind that downtown needs to attract. The more new, high-tech and e-commerce businesses Detroit gets, the better chance for survival, as this seems to be the wave of future industry.

**esp1986** · March-12-10, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Companies such as Fathead and eprize are the kind that downtown needs to attract. The more new, high-tech and e-commerce businesses Detroit gets, the better chance for survival, as this seems to be the wave of future industry.

I know for a fact that all of his entities employ a ton of young people... a lot of recent college grads. The hope is to lure them to live downtown. The question now becomes, where will they all live??

**DetroitPlanner** · March-12-10, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

I know for a fact that all of his entities employ a ton of young people... a lot of recent college grads. The hope is to lure them to live downtown. The question now becomes, where will they all live??

Are you kidding? There are plenty of places. Not everyone who works downtown is going to want to live downtown. For example, I work downtown but live in a neighborhood. Many folks will continue to live where they lived before its not like these are brand new jobs, but a shift from one political subdivision to another. Workers do not automatically equate to demand for house, even still there is more housing in this region than there is demand and our housing prices reflect this.

**bailey** · March-12-10, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Are you kidding? There are plenty of places. Not everyone who works downtown is going to want to live downtown. For example, I work downtown but live in a neighborhood. Many folks will continue to live where they lived before its not like these are brand new jobs, but a shift from one political subdivision to another. Workers do not automatically equate to demand for house, even still there is more housing in this region than there is demand and our housing prices reflect this.

My question would be how many of these quicken employees rent or own? I would think most used their employer [[its time to LIIIIIII-ve!) to buy a lovely home in the 'burbs which is probably underwater. How many of them are really going to be able or want to sell their suburban home to move to the new digs?

**iheartthed** · March-12-10, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

My question would be how many of these quicken employees rent or own? I would think most used their employer [[its time to LIIIIIII-ve!) to buy a lovely home in the 'burbs which is probably underwater. How many of them are really going to be able or want to sell their suburban home to move to the new digs?

Why would they have to? The company is moving 10 miles down the road. It ain't like he's going to Cleveland [[like he had threatened to do)...

**DetroitPlanner** · March-12-10, 01:11 PM

I am happy that they are coming downtown, but to translate this move to a big rush for home ownership? I can't see it. Some may move, but again, there is plenty of properties, its not like we are talking tens of thousands of employees flooding into the Metro Detroit market from elsewhere.

I am thrilled about other opportunities that this may bring such as strengthening retail space or the opportunity to use this to bring other new employment downtown to help service Quicken/Rock. This only adds to diversify downtown's employment base away from GM and government.

**esp1986** · March-12-10, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Why would they have to? The company is moving 10 miles down the road. It ain't like he's going to Cleveland [[like he had threatened to do)...

It's a little further than 10 miles...their Livonia offices, at least most of them, are off of I-275 at 7 mile, almost in Northville... and there are a lot of people who aren't going to like driving from Livonia or Novi or Northville or Plymouth or Canton or Westland [[wow that's a lot of 'or's). Quicken employs a lot of college grads, who can easily pick up and go.

Now I am not saying that 25% of them will move downtown, but at least a couple hundred for sure, maybe even as many as 300. Most college grads can't afford to buy much of anything, especially houses, so they really aren't tied to any area, so they would be willing to pick up and move downtown to minimize the commute. If I, for one, was to move downtown, I wouldn't want a loft, and that is the majority of what's available downtown. That's why there are so many of them available. Not everyone wants lofts, but since that is the cheapest way to residential space, that is what all of the developers are doing. So with Quicken moving downtown, there is a chance that there will be an influx of affordable [[$800-$1000 a month for rent) residential space downtown, i.e. apartments. I have heard that Washington Square is experienceing the highest occupancy rates they have ever seen, so the demand for those types of apartments is definately growing...

However, as far as retail space is concerned, it will likely continue to struggle unless a number of these Quicken employees actually do move downtown, because, lets be honest, most of the people that work downtown go to work in the morning then go straight home afterwards at 5.

**iheartthed** · March-12-10, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

It's a little further than 10 miles...their Livonia offices, at least most of them, are off of I-275 at 7 mile, almost in Northville... and there are a lot of people who aren't going to like driving from Livonia or Novi or Northville or Plymouth or Canton or Westland [[wow that's a lot of 'or's). Quicken employs a lot of college grads, who can easily pick up and go.

Now I am not saying that 25% of them will move downtown, but at least a couple hundred for sure, maybe even as many as 300. Most college grads can't afford to buy much of anything, especially houses, so they really aren't tied to any area, so they would be willing to pick up and move downtown to minimize the commute. If I, for one, was to move downtown, I wouldn't want a loft, and that is the majority of what's available downtown. That's why there are so many of them available. Not everyone wants lofts, but since that is the cheapest way to residential space, that is what all of the developers are doing. So with Quicken moving downtown, there is a chance that there will be an influx of affordable [[$800-$1000 a month for rent) residential space downtown, i.e. apartments. I have heard that Washington Square is experienceing the highest occupancy rates they have ever seen, so the demand for those types of apartments is definately growing...

However, as far as retail space is concerned, it will likely continue to struggle unless a number of these Quicken employees actually do move downtown, because, lets be honest, most of the people that work downtown go to work in the morning then go straight home afterwards at 5.

The point is that the distance between Detroit and Livonia isn't to great that it would force someone to sell a house that they already own just to keep their job. Some may decide to do that because they don't like driving that distance on a daily basis. But it isn't the same as if the company had moved to Cleveland, where the employees would have needed to relocate entirely in order to keep their jobs.

But all of this assumes that the vast majority of Quicken's employees live in and around Livonia to begin with, which is probably not the case.

**esp1986** · March-12-10, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The point is that the distance between Detroit and Livonia isn't to great that it would force someone to sell a house that they already own just to keep their job. Some may decide to do that because they don't like driving that distance on a daily basis. But it isn't the same as if the company had moved to Cleveland, where the employees would have needed to relocate entirely in order to keep their jobs.

But all of this assumes that the vast majority of Quicken's employees live in and around Livonia to begin with, which is probably not the case.

Agreed on both points. If someone owns a house, there is no way in hell they will even move into the city... and there are sure to be people who drive to Quicken from the city, Southfield, Royal Oak, etc. Being in a suburban area though, the highest concentration of workers would likely be in the nearby area.

A few years back, however [[around the time they were looking to build downtown), something was said about wanting to get some of the younger employees to move to downtown, and given the large contingent of young adults who likely can't afford, or don't own homes, that I know work for Quicken, a pretty good size infusion of people to downtown could happen from a residential standpoint.

But, no, practically nobody is going to sell a house to move downtown, I agree on that point, I was looking at the younger people.

**iheartthed** · March-12-10, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

A few years back, however [[around the time they were looking to build downtown), something was said about wanting to get some of the younger employees to move to downtown, and given the large contingent of young adults who likely can't afford, or don't own homes, that I know work for Quicken, a pretty good size infusion of people to downtown could happen from a residential standpoint.

I hope that happens. We shall see.