Packard Plant issue of "the Cormorant"

[56packman]

The Packard Club [[Packard Automobile Classics) has just mailed it's latest issue of their excellent publication "the Cormorant" and this issue is devoted exclusively to the Packard plant. There are several articles, the first being a nostalgic review of what the area around the plant was like [[and the city in general) just before the company's demise, it was written by Leon Dixon.
Other articles include a reprint of a story that appeared in the Detroit News "The last man out of Packard" about a man that was kept on Studebaker-Packard's payrolls to oversee the emptying of the buildings, and a fascinating article reprinted from a professional firefighter's magazine written by the [[then) Detroit Fire chief concerning the February 1959 blaze there that raged on for 13 days unabated.
Local Packard historian and main organizer of the group that has saved the central parcel of land at the Utica Packard Proving Grounds, John McArthur wrote an article about the last twenty years of the plant, it eludes to some of intrigue that has gone on with the city and state, but does not name names beyond those that are well known. I thought his wrap-up pretty much said it best, It needs to go now, and that only the price of steel will determine that.
Unfortunately, the magazine is only published for the 5,000 or so members of the club. There are many old photographs of the days when stately cars issued forth from the plant, and pictures of the desolation and ruin that is there today.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Unfortunately, the magazine is only published for the 5,000 or so members of the club. There are many old photographs of the days when stately cars issued forth from the plant, and pictures of the desolation and ruin that is there today.

So there's no way at all for the rest of us to get a copy? Anyone we can call at the magazine? I'd gladly pay for one.

[Packman41]

Both 56Packman and I belong to The Packard Club, aka Packard Automobile Classics [[PAC). The current issue of The Packard Cormorant is a wonderful issue highlighting Packard's Detroit Factory. Sturat Blond is the editor of the magazine and he can be reached at stuartblond@earthlink.net.

However, back issues are available from:
Carl Schnieder
11800 Black Pike
New Carlisle, OH 45344

Cost of back issues are $8.00

I don't know how long it takes for the extra current issues to beconme a back issue and sent to Carl. Please be patient as the national club is a non-profit and run by volunteers.

Sorry, but we don't sell the magazine on the news stands - it is reserved for club members. By the way, the CORMORANT is a bird [[waterfowl) that is the hood ornament for most classic Packards and it comes from the Packard family crest. many folks mistakenly think the hood ornament [[mascot) is a swan, but it is not.

Thanks,

[MoparDan]

Both 56Packman and I belong to The Packard Club, aka Packard Automobile Classics [[PAC). The current issue of The Packard Cormorant is a wonderful issue highlighting Packard's Detroit Factory. Sturat Blond is the editor of the magazine and he can be reached at stuartblond@earthlink.net.

However, back issues are available from:
Carl Schnieder
11800 Black Pike
New Carlisle, OH 45344

Cost of back issues are $8.00

I don't know how long it takes for the extra current issues to beconme a back issue and sent to Carl. Please be patient as the national club is a non-profit and run by volunteers.

Sorry, but we don't sell the magazine on the news stands - it is reserved for club members. By the way, the CORMORANT is a bird [[waterfowl) that is the hood ornament for most classic Packards and it comes from the Packard family crest. many folks mistakenly think the hood ornament [[mascot) is a swan, but it is not.

Thanks,

Thanks for all the information. I've become more interested in the history of Packard & 56Packman passed along some great info to me some months ago.
Went to the website & enjoyed going through it.
http://www.packardclub.org/
I watched the slide show which went up to 1948. The way it ended...well, who knew the end was coming that quickly.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Any chance of a scan of the article? I know it's probably frowned upon but for those of us who are overseas, [[i'm in new zealand for a while) and can't get mail would love to see it.

[p69rrh51]

Any chance of a scan of the article? I know it's probably frowned upon but for those of us who are overseas, [[i'm in new zealand for a while) and can't get mail would love to see it.

I will try to scan the article from my issue for you this monday.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

I will try to scan the article from my issue for you this monday.

Cool, thanks!

[Leeedy]

YES... making copies of magazine articles without permission IS "frowned upon." It is also illegal. Go to Kinko's and ask them. This is why there is an office of U.S. Copyrights.

It is interesting that both emails and addresses for the Cormorant Magazine were indeed listed in this thread and how to get one is listed. In case no one knows, there IS an official New Zealand region of The Packard Club. It is clearly listed on page 40 of the magazine in question with a full local address. And they DO deliver mail there. It is SOUTH PACIFIC PACKARDS, 56 Hetley Crescent, Taradale, Napier 4001, New Zealand.

On Page 1 of the magazine, a copyright is also indicated. This is important since it means if someone wants permission to make copies [[or "scans" of the magazine or articles), one ought to contact the club and/or the the editor of the publication to get permission to do so. Bypassing this courtesy-while it is fashionable on today's kamikaze internet where it is imagined that no one owns rights to anything-unless it is on THEIR web site- is wrong. It is not only illegal to make copies or "scans", but it negates the entire purpose of having intellectual property and copyrights in the first place! And it disrespects those who worked so hard to make it happen. These things don't just fall out of the sky.

There is a substantial amount of work-labor- involved in doing such articles. There is a substantial amount of knowledge involved with doing such articles. There is a significant publishing expenditure involved with doing such magazines and articles. It would be nice if all of this work and cost can be bypassed simply by using a photocopy machine or a computer scanner- but even making copies of a published article on a machine costs something to somebody. In an ideal dream world, anonymous writers write accurate and interesting articles and desire no credit for their work...published by organizations and printing machines that all operate for free... on glossy paper that is also free. All bound and mailed for free. But this is not an ideal world-even if the internet sometimes makes it seem that way. The present state of Detroit-a city where I grew up in its glory years- is a graphic demonstration of the fact that we are NOT living in an ideal world. And there is no free lunch.

It is wonderful to see interest in and praise of these articles. But when people take it upon themselves to ignore the copyrights and make copies and distribute them on their own- whether it be one or a million- it undermines the very work they imagine they are promoting. It is tough to make magazines these days... and frankly most of the published word is headed in the same direction as Detroit-built automobiles. Not because it isn't well done, but because it is increasingly easier to undermine it-even by those who are well meaning. If everybody on the internet scans everything that somebody else has written, photographed and published, this may be cute and even informative- but that can only last for so long. Ultimately the bill always comes due . When it becomes impossible for writers and editors to exist because they have no rights to the things they create, and no inspiration to do their work, THEN where will we all be? Drive past the Packard plant today and you'll see.

[d'oh]

It's true....

[mcsdetroitfriend]

YES... making copies of magazine articles without permission IS "frowned upon." It is also illegal. Go to Kinko's and ask them. This is why there is an office of U.S. Copyrights.

It is interesting that both emails and addresses for the Cormorant Magazine were indeed listed in this thread and how to get one is listed. In case no one knows, there IS an official New Zealand region of The Packard Club. It is clearly listed on page 40 of the magazine in question with a full local address. And they DO deliver mail there. It is SOUTH PACIFIC PACKARDS, 56 Hetley Crescent, Taradale, Napier 4001, New Zealand.

On Page 1 of the magazine, a copyright is also indicated. This is important since it means if someone wants permission to make copies [[or "scans" of the magazine or articles), one ought to contact the club and/or the the editor of the publication to get permission to do so. Bypassing this courtesy-while it is fashionable on today's kamikaze internet where it is imagined that no one owns rights to anything-unless it is on THEIR web site- is wrong. It is not only illegal to make copies or "scans", but it negates the entire purpose of having intellectual property and copyrights in the first place! And it disrespects those who worked so hard to make it happen. These things don't just fall out of the sky.

There is a substantial amount of work-labor- involved in doing such articles. There is a substantial amount of knowledge involved with doing such articles. There is a significant publishing expenditure involved with doing such magazines and articles. It would be nice if all of this work and cost can be bypassed simply by using a photocopy machine or a computer scanner- but even making copies of a published article on a machine costs something to somebody. In an ideal dream world, anonymous writers write accurate and interesting articles and desire no credit for their work...published by organizations and printing machines that all operate for free... on glossy paper that is also free. All bound and mailed for free. But this is not an ideal world-even if the internet sometimes makes it seem that way. The present state of Detroit-a city where I grew up in its glory years- is a graphic demonstration of the fact that we are NOT living in an ideal world. And there is no free lunch.

It is wonderful to see interest in and praise of these articles. But when people take it upon themselves to ignore the copyrights and make copies and distribute them on their own- whether it be one or a million- it undermines the very work they imagine they are promoting. It is tough to make magazines these days... and frankly most of the published word is headed in the same direction as Detroit-built automobiles. Not because it isn't well done, but because it is increasingly easier to undermine it-even by those who are well meaning. If everybody on the internet scans everything that somebody else has written, photographed and published, this may be cute and even informative- but that can only last for so long. Ultimately the bill always comes due . When it becomes impossible for writers and editors to exist because they have no rights to the things they create, and no inspiration to do their work, THEN where will we all be? Drive past the Packard plant today and you'll see.

Understood, however a simple "please don't copy copy-written material" would suffice. I appreciate and understand your concerns, however for those of us with just a passing interest in the place purchasing a copy would outweigh its importance.

Does anyone know of any library's that carry the publication?

[Caseyc]

Understood, however a simple "please don't copy copy-written material" would suffice. I appreciate and understand your concerns, however for those of us with just a passing interest in the place purchasing a copy would outweigh its importance.

Does anyone know of any library's that carry the publication?

New Zealand libraries?

[Packman41]

Understood, however a simple "please don't copy copy-written material" would suffice. I appreciate and understand your concerns, however for those of us with just a passing interest in the place purchasing a copy would outweigh its importance.

Does anyone know of any library's that carry the publication?

Yes, the National Automotive History Collection in the Skillman Library at 121 Gratioit and the Detroit Puiblic Library - Main Branch on Woodward are botrh memebers of The Packard Club and should receive "The Packard Cormorant" magazine. However, as LEEEDY said there are copyright laws and librarians are especially mindful [[I'm married to one) of the copyright laws.

I don't want to sound preachy here, but why don't you just pop for the $8 and by your own reprint to read cherish. Then you would be a Packard Detroit Friend.

Back issues are available from:
Carl Schnieder
11800 Black Pike
New Carlisle, OH 45344

Cost of back issues are $8.00


Best.

[Packman41]

New Zealand libraries?

Sorry, but no public libraries in New Zealand subscribe to "The Packard Cormorant." However, there are 16 [[family) members in New Zealand that own a total of 43 Packards. There earliest are two 1918 models and the latest is a 1947 touring sedan.

[Leeedy]

Understood, however a simple "please don't copy copy-written material" would suffice. I appreciate and understand your concerns, however for those of us with just a passing interest in the place purchasing a copy would outweigh its importance.

Does anyone know of any library's that carry the publication?

How DARE these writers comment on their work being ripped off and copyrights being violated and laws being broken! HOW DARE THEY!? The NERVE! Don't they know that the rules don't apply to individuals who have "passing interest" because THESE people are SPECIAL!

If you truly DO "understand concerns" you would not be requesting people over the internet to break federal laws... and to rip off someone else's hard work. If your interest is THAT "passing" then why not just pass all the way? And not act as if you are entitled somehow to get something you clearly do not wish to make even minimum effort to have- unless it is illegally provided to you for free?

There are becoming far too many people on the internet who want the whole idea of getting information to be 100% free. Cute idea. As I said before, this is NOT an ideal world and you do not have an entitlement simply because you want something. But if you really feel this way- start with getting your computer for free. Then find a place to set it up for free. Then make sure you can plug it in for free. Then tell your ISP that you don't want to pay THEM. Then tell the people who wrote your software that you expect it for free- or want rogue copies to use [[Bill Gates will LOVE you for that!). While you're at it... tell the music companies you want all of the music that you have a "passing interest" in for free [[does the name, NAPTSTER ring a bell?). Oh- and tell Hollywood you want all of their movies for free- they'll love hearing that too.

The internet has spoiled our present generation... but until they abolish all copyrights and turn the entire world over to communism, you are not entitled to take other people's intellectual property. BUT those people ARE entitled to comment about it whether you like their comments or not!

[mcsdetroitfriend]

The conversation was civil and passed that by the time you decided to tred into an uncivilized manner. Maybe it's because you wrote it at 12am you were tired and thus a little irate.

Thanks for the information, I'm actually back in the states, good old Michigan, so I'll look into some local public libraries [[I'm in the lenawee county area). Pretty cool to know about the Packards that made it overseas, can't believe there's that many over there! Ideal conditions for longevity, no snow, very smooth roads, moderate climate shift between seasons...what more could an old car ask for?

[RickBeall]

The side effect of nearly free electronic copies and communications is that "all information wants to be free". It is one of the quirks of modern society.

[Gistok]

The conversation was civil and passed that by the time you decided to tred into an uncivilized manner. Maybe it's because you wrote it at 12am you were tired and thus a little irate.

Thanks for the information, I'm actually back in the states, good old Michigan, so I'll look into some local public libraries [[I'm in the lenawee county area). Pretty cool to know about the Packards that made it overseas, can't believe there's that many over there! Ideal conditions for longevity, no snow, very smooth roads, moderate climate shift between seasons...what more could an old car ask for?

Glad you're back in Michigan mcsdetroitfriend.... bet you haven't had such a dressing down on this forum since sitting in Matty's football box after helping clean out the MCS!!

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Glad you're back in Michigan mcsdetroitfriend.... bet you haven't had such a dressing down on this forum since sitting in Matty's football box after helping clean out the MCS!!

I know right? I was getting used to providing information and opinion without having having a lot of snarky replies, oh well I guess everyone needs to get put in their place every once in a while.

[stromberg2]

Yeah, 2 posts and they are tearing you a new one!

Stromberg2