Welfare is Good for the Economy?

[jflick3535]

From the Freep editorial today about how cutting off unemployment benefits is bad


The overall economy in communities and the state also benefits from jobless pay. Various studies suggest that a dollar spent on unemployment benefits lifts the overall economy by anywhere from $1.64 to $2.15. Grocery stores and gas stations get business, the state gets sales tax on basics like toothpaste and shampoo, utility companies get paid.

What a joke!!!

http://www.freep.com/article/2010021...efits-extended

[oldredfordette]

They're right. People having money to propel the consumer economy along is good. People starving and living in the street is bad.

Oh by the way, welfare and unemployment are two different things. Have a lovely evening.

[oladub]

Somewhat related - The Geography of a recession. Shows where the jobs are and aren't by county.

[Hermod]

Oh by the way, welfare and unemployment are two different things. Have a lovely evening.

The qualifications for welfare and unemployment are different. The programs are structured differently. The funding sources are different.

The principle is the same, to provide sustenance to those who are not currently gainfully employed.

[Meddle]

It'd be good for my economy. Good for the environment too since I wouldn't have to burn gas going to and from work.

[Sstashmoo]

Extensions are essentially welfare. The recipient is drawing beyond their eligibility. It is a compromise of the system, they're handing money out, they didn't collect.

[oladub]

The US might be spending up to $1T/year fighting unconstitutional wars and otherwise maintaining an empire around the world above and beyond being able to defend the US. Additional trillion$ have been spent bailing our banks, trying to re-inflate the housing bubble, and otherwise subsidizing corporations. If we want to reduce welfare expenditures, we should make a priority of reducing corporatist [[that includes reducing the size of government) welfare and reducing corruption before making wholesale attacks on unemployed US workers.

[Sstashmoo]

Right on Odub.

In that unemployment chart you referenced, I thought it a bit telling to watch the unemployment rate around DC. Not really affected all that much. Maybe they had to hire a bunch of people to figure out why there's no jobs?

[jflick3535]

It'd be good for my economy. Good for the environment too since I wouldn't have to burn gas going to and from work.

nice!

That's almost as good as the broken glass example--I throw a ball at a pane of glass, I just created two jobs one guy to sweep it up and one to replace the glass. But of course no one accounts for the cost of creating those two jobs, it would be more cost effective to have not broken the glass at all.

[oldredfordette]

Yeah, those damn people laying themselves off so they can collect unemployment! Lazy workers!

[East Detroit]

Somewhat related - The Geography of a recession. Shows where the jobs are and aren't by county.

Yes, but jflick will never be laid off or fired due to the economy.

[Danny]

Keep away from me, Mr. Welfare!

[Danny]

Yeah, those damn people laying themselves off so they can collect unemployment! Lazy workers!

WARNING!

If our nation is lazy, we will be like the Soviet Union.

[Jimaz]

Welfare is Good for the Economy?

Apparently not, if it comes hidden in the form of deregulating financial institutions. Well, maybe it was good for their economy. Well, maybe some of their economies.

I think it wasn't very good for the economy though.

[maxx]

nice!

That's almost as good as the broken glass example--I throw a ball at a pane of glass, I just created two jobs one guy to sweep it up and one to replace the glass. But of course no one accounts for the cost of creating those two jobs, it would be more cost effective to have not broken the glass at all.

I was just in Milford where there are loads of relatively new warehouses and industrial-looking buildings up for sale. And out towards Rochester are all those developments of big-foot houses. Looks like construction for construction's sake. On another thread I brought up the way we construct our roads which is pretty shoddy compared to the way roads are made in Europe. That's another example of welfare for the construction industry. And someone please explain to me the average number of subcontractors per contract and how much overhead they represent.

[Hermod]

WARNING!

If our nation is lazy, we will be like the Soviet Union.

The motto in the Soviet Union was "we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us".

[Hermod]

I was just in Milford where there are loads of relatively new warehouses and industrial-looking buildings up for sale. And out towards Rochester are all those developments of big-foot houses. Looks like construction for construction's sake. On another thread I brought up the way we construct our roads which is pretty shoddy compared to the way roads are made in Europe. That's another example of welfare for the construction industry. And someone please explain to me the average number of subcontractors per contract and how much overhead they represent.

1. European roads are not all that good.

2. Except in Scandinavia, European roads are not subject to frost heaves.

3. European roads don't get the heavy truck pounding that our roads are subject to.

[Patrick]

3. European roads don't get the heavy truck pounding that our roads are subject to.

I thought the Euros didn't screw around when it came to building highways. Isn't the concrete thicker over there?

[oldredfordette]

The major highways are great in Europe. They're built to last.

[barnesfoto]

Not only are the roads great, but the railroads and mass transit are great too!

What a crazy socialist idea, investing well in your own country's infrastructure!

[Papasito]

Slanted Titled News Article Exposes One of the Biggest Problems In Washington:
Put Necessary Legislation in a Bill packed with Un-necessary Spending,
Then When Someone Objects, Scream FOUL!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35603474/ns/politics/

With most senators already home for the weekend, Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., tried Friday morning to have the bill passed on a voice vote, which can be blocked by the objection of a single senator. Bunning objected, as he has repeatedly since Thursday.

"Everybody in this chamber wants to extend unemployment benefits, COBRA health care benefits," Bunning said Friday. But, he added, "If we can't find $10 billion somewhere for a bill that everybody in this body supports, we will never pay for anything."

Durbin said the nation's economic problems justify borrowing to pay for the programs. He noted that Congress, with Republican support, has extended the benefits in the past without offsetting the costs.

"I believe it is unthinkable, unforgivable that we would cut off unemployment insurance payments to these people," Durbin said. Addressing Bunning, he said, "Find a way to express your political views that's not at the expense of these people."

I was unemployed over 4 months before I found my current job. I am all for extending enemployment benefits to the 10+% Americans who are currently out of work. Finding a job out there is VERY TOUGH. Sometimes there just isn't anything at all. Websites like Monster, Craigslist and others are a joke when it comes to jobhunting. There are people out to scam and take advantage of the unemployed mixed in with the few actual companies that are legitimately hiring. But back on topic, they shove unemployment benefit extention in with a bunch of earmark spending and then cry foul when one person objects to a bill of more fatcat spending!

These necessary actions, like unemployment benefit extentions, and defense spending [[notice they always shove thousands of earmark and special interest programs in with defense spending bills just to get them passed??) should be stand-alone bills that keep Government spending on-target and limited.

There was recently some CNN reports on how many millions were downright wasted that came from the "Stimulus" monies. The Government waste is rediculous. They have spent enough money on trash to give every American household a million dollars each, and they continue to spend like there is no accountability for it.

When will this ever change!?
This pace of spending is not sustainable.
It all must come crashing down!

[Papasito]

The major highways are great in Europe. They're built to last.

Not only are the roads great, but the railroads and mass transit are great too!
What a crazy socialist idea, investing well in your own country's infrastructure!

Logistically the USA's land mass is much larger with people spread out across it
Europe is densely populated and a relatively small land mass

Mass transit on a National level in the USA is intensely expensive due to the sheer size of the country and how spread out our population is! Can the USA and Europe even be compared? Individual transportation is a downright necessity when considering how spread out our population is and how large the country is. I don't think we could even fathom the expense it would take to put high speed rail interconnecting every city and rural town in America from the Keys in Florida to Upstate Maine to Southern California and Washington State and everywhere in between!! And then to expect it to run profitably and efficiently? Impossible.

[oldredfordette]

Papasito, I advise you buy a couple of American History books. They will describe how this country was once criss crossed with railroad tracks. You could get anywhere from anywhere, and this was before things like automobiles and computers and cell phones.

Why do you hate America so much? I can't think of a thing Americans couldn't do, we are smart and able enough, we have the resources and the manpower. We could do it, if your friends in the boardrooms and on the right side of the aisle would get the fuck out of the way.

[maxx]

Corporate welfare is the big chunk of the welfare budget in the U.S..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111403045.html
"...Here, the Constitution is an afterthought; the supreme law of the land is the principle of concentrated benefits and dispersed costs. Sugar import quotas cost the American people approximately $2 billion a year, but that sum is siphoned from 300 million consumers in small, hidden increments that are not noticed. The few thousand sugar producers on whom billions are thereby conferred do notice and are grateful to the government that bilks the many for the enrichment of the few. .."

And corporate welfare in the form of ag. subsidies has driven out most of the small farmers they were originally supposed to help.
"...Research from Brian M. Riedl at the Heritage Foundation showed that nearly three quarters of subsidy money goes to the top 10% of recipients.[21] Thus, the large farms, which are the most profitable because they have economies of scale, receive the most money. Between 1990 and 2001, payments to large farms have nearly tripled, while payments to small farms have remained constant.[22] Brian M. Riedl argues that the subsidy money is helping large farms buy out small farms. "Specifically, large farms are using their massive federal subsidies to purchase small farms and consolidate the agriculture industry. As they buy up smaller farms, not only are these large farms able to capitalize further on economies of scale and become more profitable, but they also become eligible for even more federal subsidies—which they can use to buy even more small farms."[21
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_subsidy

Do we still subsidize mohair producers?

[gibran]

Where is the compassion in this? if we really decided to end poverty through work and education an really committed then welfare would be decreased immensely ...in a healthy economy....however, since our economy is in tatters-welfare helps people falling into a deeper chasm of despair.

maybe we should look at foriegn aid now and think how much aid we send to countries that can fend fo rthemselves and see what that would do to help welfare get to workfare.