State Fair to return -- via a new Metropark??

**Gsgeorge** · February-19-10, 10:51 AM

Check out this article from today's Freep:

http://www.freep.com/article/2010021...ck-in-business

Could the Michigan State Fair rise again?

Some supporters hope so, with the help of the Huron-Clinton Metropolitan Authority.

The authority's board plans to consider a proposal next week in which the state would lease the historic fairgrounds at 8 Mile and Woodward to the regional parks system for $1 a year. The park system would agree to develop the property into a year-round park and continue the nation's oldest state fair.

Might pave the way to make Belle Isle a Metropark as well -- though I would much rather see it run by a Conservancy.

bartock · February-19-10, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

Check out this article from today's Freep:

http://www.freep.com/article/2010021...ck-in-business

Might pave the way to make Belle Isle a Metropark as well -- though I would much rather see it run by a Conservancy.

This proposal could be an interesting litmus test. I wonder how this goes over with the new city council.

neighbor · February-19-10, 11:01 AM

Good. Belle Isle needs some help. I was there about a week ago and it's a mess. I wanted to walk my dog and do a little off the leash training but I couldn't walk two feet without seeing broken glass.

Why, why, why can't a piece of glass go unbroken in the city? Bottles or windows it doesn't matter it won't last long as a whole.

I would gladly pay a fee to go on Belle Isle. City residents paying half of non-residents fees seems fair.

**Motor City Sam** · February-19-10, 11:46 AM

I'd love to see the State Fair return. Some of my earliest memories are my parents taking me and my sister to the State fair. Took a date there last year and had a wonderful time.

As far as a fee for Belle Isle, I would happily accept a daily per car fee of 5 bucks or so, with a year pass for 30 or 40 bucks. Walkers, joggers, and bikers would be free if I had my way.

**kryptonite** · February-19-10, 11:50 AM

[I would gladly pay a fee to go on Belle Isle. City residents paying half of non-residents fees seems fair.[/quote]

In the past city council has rejected per-car admission fees for Belle Isle and they also rejected an offer by the state to convert Belle Isle to a state park. The idiots in city council felt that they would be "giving away Detroit's jewels" if the state took over. The same offer was denied to turn Fort Wayne into a state park. City council apparently prefers to see Belle Isle and Fort Wayne to deteriorate under their watch rather than admit the state might do a better job of maintaining both sites.

I think Fort Wayne in particular would make an excellent state park. Belle Isle maybe, it would at least possibly prevent the deterioration of the park and the continued closing of one BI facility after another.

**jt1** · February-19-10, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by kryptonite

[I would gladly pay a fee to go on Belle Isle. City residents paying half of non-residents fees seems fair

In the past city council has rejected per-car admission fees for Belle Isle and they also rejected an offer by the state to convert Belle Isle to a state park. The idiots in city council felt that they would be "giving away Detroit's jewels" if the state took over. The same offer was denied to turn Fort Wayne into a state park. City council apparently prefers to see Belle Isle and Fort Wayne to deteriorate under their watch rather than admit the state might do a better job of maintaining both sites.

I think Fort Wayne in particular would make an excellent state park. Belle Isle maybe, it would at least possibly prevent the deterioration of the park and the continued closing of one BI facility after another.

Accurate yet inaccurate. Yes, previously the city did turn down discussionsIn the not too distant past [[within the last decade) the city approached HCMA about taking over BI. HCMA replied with a big fuck you to the city.

HCMA has made it clear that they do not have the money or are even willing to consider taking over BI - of course people keep repeating it as if HCMA wants to assist/take over BI and the city says no. Taht just isn't the case.

I will also bet a significant chunk of money that HCMA will not tke over the State Fairgrounds. Their past indifference towards the city and reduction of HCMA support for city facilities [[BI/State Fair) are evdidence of this.

Now, just to be clear, the city rejected HCMA in 1973 but that was the last time. Since then the city has reached out and had their hand slapped away by HCMA. In addition, HCMA [[funded partially by Detroit property tax payers) has reduced their 'programming' at BI and the State Fair. If anything they have redcued the amount of progamming dollars sent to Detroit facilities.

HCMA will send you their annual budget if you call/e-mail to request it.

So let's be honest about the what HCMA is and is not willing to do before we spout off more bullshit,.

**kryptonite** · February-19-10, 12:27 PM

There were offers by the State of MI in the past to take over Belle Isle and Fort Wayne as state parks. Those offers were made in the 1980's from what I recall, I was a Detroit resident then. HCMA may have also offered to incorporate Belle Isle in their system.

Detroit city council declined the state's offers. Of course those were prior councils and the current city council has no members that date back to the 1980's.

**mikeg19** · February-19-10, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sam

I'd love to see the State Fair return. Some of my earliest memories are my parents taking me and my sister to the State fair. Took a date there last year and had a wonderful time.

As far as a fee for Belle Isle, I would happily accept a daily per car fee of 5 bucks or so, with a year pass for 30 or 40 bucks. Walkers, joggers, and bikers would be free if I had my way.

I agree. I would gladly pay a $5 fee to go to Belle Isle. Belle Isle is the crown jewel of Detroit in my opinion. The zoo, conservatory, aquarium, the sweeping views of Detroit and Windsor. It literally COULD be one of the best parks in the country. I wish more people would realize that.

**Searay215** · February-20-10, 03:11 PM

I think the OLD city council would have not gone along with this, but I think the new one will. Its is a way to clean up and preserve these gems to the city. A yearly pass is $24 and senior $12. Not the end of the world and as someone aleady pointed out walkers, joggers and bikers would be free anyway. And another benifit is that your pass is good for All the Metro parks. I for one hope it happens.

**PlymouthRes** · February-20-10, 04:47 PM

There was NEVER an offer to take over Fort Wayne, it was only a proposal and never became a reality. Once HCMA saw what they would have to put into the place, they backed away from their offer. They never came back with an alternative plan so the proposal died.

All I would like for the county to do is kick loose the millage that all Wayne County residents have been paying for the last twenty or so years, which totals about 2.8 million as I understand it. The problem, as we keep hearing, is that if they give us the money they have collected from the millage to restore the place, they won't get the interest from that money so they won't be able to fund the other projects they do from that interest. Of course, all the while, our organization struggles with between a $20,000 and $30,000 annual budget to do all the work that remains to do there, all of which we raise OURSELVES.

We of the HFWC have begun preliminary talks with the CoD Recreation department to assume a more proactive role at the Fort, ala the Friends of Eastern Market and the shed resto project they are doing there. We are a long way off from a deal, but it is encouraging that they are even entertaining the offer.

By the way, just in case you were wondering, the CoD has spent a great deal [[in my opinion) on the yearly upkeep of the Fort, which is almost $400,000.00 per year for water, heat and lights. They also spent $17,000 and $25,000 last year for two new roofs, one on the QM's shop and one on the Tuskegee Air Museum building. Although not a lot by any standard, in a city that is in such a bankrupt condition, they have treid in any way they could to help us maintain what we can and have also tried to help us recieve grants to accomplish our goals there. They have also offered us their grant writers to help us achieve this goal.

Again, not a lot by any standard, but they are at least trying.

If YOU all want to help, come on out to Civil War Days on July 11 and 12, and come down to our car show on July 17th [[FIRST ANNUAL!), which will help generate more funds for the effort. It is our only source of income to do what we do down there and THAT is one way that YOU ALL can directly help.

**douglasm** · February-20-10, 04:51 PM

It has always suprised me that the State Fairgrounds never developed as a year round "convention center" type facility. Granted the facilities there are probably outdated, but it's got all the potential in the world.

As to Belle Isle, there was talk of turning it into a MetroPark in the late 60's or early 70's, but the idea never got off the ground. anyone know why?

**artds** · February-20-10, 05:28 PM

I don't see where all this Belle Isle talk is coming from.

I'd like for Belle Isle to become a metro park too, but the article doesn't mention anything about Belle Isle or about the City of Detroit [[referring to the legal entity that owns Belle Isle...not the geographic area).

**softailrider** · February-20-10, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

It has always suprised me that the State Fairgrounds never developed as a year round "convention center" type facility. Granted the facilities there are probably outdated, but it's got all the potential in the world.

As to Belle Isle, there was talk of turning it into a MetroPark in the late 60's or early 70's, but the idea never got off the ground. anyone know why?

Facilities outdated? They were outdated decades ago. Beautiful chunk of land though, room for parking, space for everything.

**Hermod** · February-20-10, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by douglasm

It has always suprised me that the State Fairgrounds never developed as a year round "convention center" type facility. Granted the facilities there are probably outdated, but it's got all the potential in the world.

The State Fair pavilion was the "convention center" for Detroit until they built Cobo Hall. The auto show, the custom car show, the boat show, these were all held on the State Fair grounds..

**Novine** · February-20-10, 11:05 PM

why would Detroit City Council have any say about what the state of Michigan does with state-owned property?

**English** · February-20-10, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

why would Detroit City Council have any say about what the state of Michigan does with state-owned property?

I'd like to know the answer to this, too.

**jt1** · February-21-10, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by PlymouthRes

There was NEVER an offer to take over Fort Wayne, it was only a proposal and never became a reality. Once HCMA saw what they would have to put into the place, they backed away from their offer. They never came back with an alternative plan so the proposal died.

All I would like for the county to do is kick loose the millage that all Wayne County residents have been paying for the last twenty or so years, which totals about 2.8 million as I understand it. The problem, as we keep hearing, is that if they give us the money they have collected from the millage to restore the place, they won't get the interest from that money so they won't be able to fund the other projects they do from that interest. Of course, all the while, our organization struggles with between a $20,000 and $30,000 annual budget to do all the work that remains to do there, all of which we raise OURSELVES.

We of the HFWC have begun preliminary talks with the CoD Recreation department to assume a more proactive role at the Fort, ala the Friends of Eastern Market and the shed resto project they are doing there. We are a long way off from a deal, but it is encouraging that they are even entertaining the offer.

By the way, just in case you were wondering, the CoD has spent a great deal [[in my opinion) on the yearly upkeep of the Fort, which is almost $400,000.00 per year for water, heat and lights. They also spent $17,000 and $25,000 last year for two new roofs, one on the QM's shop and one on the Tuskegee Air Museum building. Although not a lot by any standard, in a city that is in such a bankrupt condition, they have treid in any way they could to help us maintain what we can and have also tried to help us recieve grants to accomplish our goals there. They have also offered us their grant writers to help us achieve this goal.

Again, not a lot by any standard, but they are at least trying.

If YOU all want to help, come on out to Civil War Days on July 11 and 12, and come down to our car show on July 17th [[FIRST ANNUAL!), which will help generate more funds for the effort. It is our only source of income to do what we do down there and THAT is one way that YOU ALL can directly help.

Damn shame that the state, HCMA and feds ignore Fort Wayne. You guys do awesome work to preserve a very important piece of US [[not only Detroit) history.

It pisses me off that our State reps in Washington have doen nothing to bring federal money to fort wayne.

**kryptonite** · February-21-10, 10:29 AM

To me if the city can't maintain the property would it be possible that they would grant free deeds to the abandoned structures to businesses in exchange for a contract to renovate or stabilize the buildings within a specific time frame. In my opinion there may be some alternate use for the abandoned Fort Wayne structures for use as records storage, research labs, who knows what. I mean if the deteriorating, usused buidlings [[most of them) could be given away to someone that must agree to do improvements would that not help the situation? I would think that such an agreement could generate a bit of interest in the facility. Fort Wayne is such an incredible place with so many wonderful old buildings that are literally falling apart, it's very sad. I try to attend a few events each year there - I wish something could be done to save more of it.

**EastsideAl** · February-21-10, 12:59 PM

Screw the HCMA. They take our money to maintain their parks in remote areas dozens of miles away from the city but don't do a damn thing for us, and have refused to even when asked. We really shouldn't be giving them another goddamn dime of our tax money.

Bearinabox · February-21-10, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Screw the HCMA. They take our money to maintain their parks in remote areas dozens of miles away from the city but don't do a damn thing for us, and have refused to even when asked. We really shouldn't be giving them another goddamn dime of our tax money.

I'm not sure I understand this line of thinking. The Metroparks are out in the sticks, but that's because that's pretty much where there's enough open land to build parks that size. They're nice parks, I enjoy visiting them, and I'd rather see them preserved as natural areas open to the public than carved up into subdivisions like all the other land out there. It'd be nice if they used some of the money to keep the Fairgrounds open or fix up Belle Isle, and I'd gladly support a region-wide millage increase to allow for that, but I don't begrudge them the money they get now just because I don't live near any of the parks.

**EastsideAl** · February-21-10, 04:24 PM

Because when we voted to give them control over Belle Isle, and later when we came to them with a plan to take over Belle Isle, their answer basically was "sorry, we don't do urban parks." Well, they sure as hell take our urban money. I helped to make contact with them when I was working at City Council [[and have family members who tried to interact with them for Friends of Belle Isle), and their attitude could not have been more dismissive and disdainful. And people wonder why we Detroiters sometimes have an "attitude" about some suburbanites and suburban institutions. Like I say, cut 'em off. Put the money we send them into our own damn parks, and not some woods with parking lots out in the sticks. Screw 'em.

**EMG** · February-21-10, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

And people wonder why we Detroiters sometimes have an "attitude" about some suburbanites and suburban institutions.

...just like Detroiters wonder why suburbanites have an "attitude" about being asked to subsidize things like mass transit for Detroit that said surbanites don't need and would never use.

**EastsideAl** · February-21-10, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by EMG

...just like Detroiters wonder why suburbanites have an "attitude" about being asked to subsidize things like mass transit for Detroit that said surbanites don't need and would never use.

Perhaps because mass transit would be an improvement to the infrastructure of the entire metropolitan area. Perhaps because it would bring economic growth and rising property values and commercial rents to the surrounding area. Perhaps because all successful urban areas in the U.S., and in the world for that matter, have a regional transit system including mass rapid transit. Perhaps because Detroit is the historical and physical heart of the region, and were it not for the happy historical accident of their proximity to Detroit those suburbs would still be the country mudholes they once were.

**EMG** · February-21-10, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Perhaps because mass transit would be an improvement to the infrastructure of the entire metropolitan area. Perhaps because it would bring economic growth and rising property values and commercial rents to the surrounding area. Perhaps because all successful urban areas in the U.S., and in the world for that matter, have a regional transit system including mass rapid transit. Perhaps because Detroit is the historical and physical heart of the region, and were it not for the happy historical accident of their proximity to Detroit those suburbs would still be the country mudholes they once were.

That's wishful thinking. Now let's talk reality.

To do that we need go no further than the very example that has been bantered earlier in this thread: a comparison of the Metro Parks to Belle Isle.

Metro Parks: Suburban. Clean. Well maintained buildings. No decrepit eyesores. Litter kept under control. Recreational opportunities and attractions open, staffed, and available to all for a reasonable fee. [[And this is not about race because it is also just as true of Metropolitan Beach which as I last remember it even a decade ago had at least 50% or better black patronage).

Belle Isle: Urban. Littered. Dirty, vandalized buildings. Unusable restrooms. Former attractions like the Aquarium and [[if I am up to date) the Conservatory closed down and no longer open to the public.

Most suburbanites can reasonably and logically extrapolate to what riding on a "Detroit" mass transit system would be like, and they would want no part of riding on it - let alone being force to pay for it - until and unless their clean well maintained personal private cars were pried from their cold, dead fingers.

Bearinabox · February-21-10, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by EMG

That's wishful thinking. Now let's talk reality.

To do that we need go no further than the very example that has been bantered earlier in this thread: a comparison of the Metro Parks to Belle Isle.

Metro Parks: Suburban. Clean. Well maintained buildings. No decrepit eyesores. Litter kept under control. Recreational opportunities and attractions open, staffed, and available to all for a reasonable fee. [[And this is not about race because it is also just as true of Metropolitan Beach which as I last remember it even a decade ago had at least 50% or better black patronage).

Belle Isle: Urban. Littered. Dirty, vandalized buildings. Unusable restrooms. Former attractions like the Aquarium and [[if I am up to date) the Conservatory closed down and no longer open to the public.

Most suburbanites can reasonably and logically extrapolate to what riding on a "Detroit" mass transit system would be like, and they would want no part of riding on it - let alone being force to pay for it - until and unless their clean well maintained personal private cars were pried from their cold, dead fingers.

You don't even know if the Conservatory is open or not and yet you offer a detailed description of the current state of Belle Isle as though you actually have some clue what you're talking about? I have no idea how to respond to this post. I'll get back to you when my head is done exploding.