GM to push for more E85 Pumps

[kraig]

E85 is too expensive.




http://www.freep.com/article/2010021...more-E85-pumps

[DetroitPlanner]

Right now it is, however when gasoline was going for $4.50 a gallon E-85 was selling for about $3 per gallon. Even when you factor the up to 20 percent difference in gas milage you're still making out. It has a lot do with supply and demand.

Keep in mind that E-85 also keeps dollars in the United States and can be made off of many of the crops grown in Michigan's heartland [[corn, beets). It makes us less dependent on international swings in production/output. Economically it has some levels of soundness to it.

[bailey]

E85 is too expensive.




http://www.freep.com/article/2010021...more-E85-pumps

tell it to the corn lobby.

[Retroit]

E85 is too expensive.

And how expensive has it been to maintain a steady flow of oil from the Middle-East. Those costs may not be reflected at the pump, but they are reflected in military expenditures, government debt accrued in paying for it, and American lives lost.

Gasoline is too cheap!

[lilpup]

I wonder if this means their alternative [[non-corn) source E85 partner is making research progress and isn't far out from having a marketable product.

It's also an excellent way to push certain other automakers aside since it's primarily the US companies that have E85 technology in their vehicles.

[bibs]

Having alternative sources of energy NOT connected to the unstable middle east would also improve national security. What will happen to the price of gasoline should Iran enrich enough uranium to produce a nuclear bomb? If this occurs we might see gasoline at $5 a gallon gas or at $8 dollar a gallon?

[kraig]

Right now it is, however when gasoline was going for $4.50 a gallon E-85 was selling for about $3 per gallon. Even when you factor the up to 20 percent difference in gas milage you're still making out. It has a lot do with supply and demand.

Keep in mind that E-85 also keeps dollars in the United States and can be made off of many of the crops grown in Michigan's heartland [[corn, beets). It makes us less dependent on international swings in production/output. Economically it has some levels of soundness to it.

I'm not against E85. I'm just saying that right now it's too expensive. If there were any gas stations that had E85 at 3.00 and regular gas at 4.50, well, I guess I missed it. The most, or least in this case, that I saw E85 was about .50 lower than regular gas. Which isn't worth what is lost in mileage. But, just like any mass produced technology, as the supply becomes more plentiful, the price comes down. Hopefully, that will happen with E85.

[Mikeg]

E85 is too expensive.

It's even more expensive than you know. The domestic ethanol refiners and blenders receive a 45 cents per gallon tax credit from Uncle Sam for each gallon of corn-based ethanol that is blended into E85. In 2006, producing a gallon of corn-based ethanol cost 38 cents more than making gasoline with the same energy, so while it may be reducing our dependence on Canadian petroleum it is not very energy efficient. Furthermore, there is a 54 cents per gallon tariff on imported ethanol, which keeps the more efficiently produced sugarcane ethanol from Brazil out of the US. [sources: A, B]

[detmsp]

if ethanol has any future, it's in non-crop based ethanol... like this: http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives...nsylvania.html

[lilpup]

if ethanol has any future, it's in non-crop based ethanol... like this: http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives...nsylvania.html

Agreed, and there are other industries looking to ethanol as a possible solution, including the commercial aircraft industry. Airbus has been interested in it and has partners working on it, too.

[DetroitPlanner]

It's even more expensive than you know. The domestic ethanol refiners and blenders receive a 45 cents per gallon tax credit from Uncle Sam for each gallon of corn-based ethanol that is blended into E85. In 2006, producing a gallon of corn-based ethanol cost 38 cents more than making gasoline with the same energy, so while it may be reducing our dependence on Canadian petroleum it is not very energy efficient. Furthermore, there is a 54 cents per gallon tariff on imported ethanol, which keeps the more efficiently produced sugarcane ethanol from Brazil out of the US. [sources: A, B]

Cost differentials will vary greatly based upon market demand; but your information is very interesting. For example, when Oil peaked the summer of 2008 I am sure that there was a much larger differential; though the oil costs ended up dragging the corn prices up as well.

Michigan is a leader in sugar production. If you drive through the thumb or Saginaw valley you will see sugar beet farms and processing plans all over the place. I wonder why the heck the State isn't exploiting this?

[lilpup]

Corn is used because with current processes it's the most efficient source and it's undoubtedly more plentiful and less expensive. Sugar beets probably already pull enough of a price that their use for ethanol isn't competitive. [[Anyway, Michigan grows corn, too!)

[detmsp]

Corn is used because with current processes it's the most efficient source and it's undoubtedly more plentiful and less expensive. Sugar beets probably already pull enough of a price that their use for ethanol isn't competitive. [[Anyway, Michigan grows corn, too!)

corn is not the most efficient. not even close. it just has the most powerful lobby.

[lilpup]

corn is not the most efficient. not even close. it just has the most powerful lobby.

Corn is the most COST efficient in the US, that's why the US processors have focused on developing their systems around it.

[detmsp]

Corn is the most COST efficient in the US, that's why the US processors have focused on developing their systems around it.

yes it is the most cost efficient... after massive government subsidies. if you include those in the cost, it's not the most cost efficient

[econ expat]

Corn is the most COST efficient in the US, that's why the US processors have focused on developing their systems around it.

Corn cannot be planted on the same plot every year, the soil loses too many nutrients. Switchgrass is being explored as an alternative crop for ethanol production.

Also- 2-3 years ago farmers had record high yields on their corn crops.
Market price was also high due in part to rising gas prices.Corn that was not even $2 bushel by 2005[[same price as 1950's) soared to near $8.
Ethanol plants were being built in many small towns, financed in part by 'co-op' ventures with local farmers. There was not enough corn despite the record yields! Corn was being imported from Mexico and S.America for use in the ethanol plants. And corn needed for livestock production also became expensive!

Benefit of the ethanol boom to the farmers- ?????
Retiring farmers cashed in. Cropland values doubled or more. However seed, fertilizer, machinery, rents, property taxes, most farming related expenses increased at the same rate or more to the higher corn price.

BTW almost everyone does buy some ethanol. Economy/regular gas usually has as much as 10%, at some stations all their gas has ethanol.

Grains are obviously a renewable resource for a fuel source. Water not so much. And it takes a great deal of water to produce ethanol.

[DetroitPlanner]

Corn is used because with current processes it's the most efficient source and it's undoubtedly more plentiful and less expensive. Sugar beets probably already pull enough of a price that their use for ethanol isn't competitive. [[Anyway, Michigan grows corn, too!)

Same area grows corn. Maybe there could me a rotation?