Body Scan Fatwa

**Bobl** · February-13-10, 09:47 AM

'Fatwa' forbids Muslims going through full-body scanners

Comments? This should be an interesting thread. Let's all take a breath, then offer a calm opinion without sniping back and forth. Nothing divides people like religion, but reasoned debate is possible, here and elsewhere. Perhaps this forum can be an example.

**gnome** · February-13-10, 10:39 AM

Wonder if my radiologist will have to commit suicide after viewing my recent CATscan

**devman1983** · February-13-10, 12:24 PM

Muslims are at odds with the rest of the world. When you are the minority and want to travel around the world then you must make sacrifices. Muslims cannot expect the rest of the world to bow to their beliefs.

**East Detroit** · February-13-10, 12:33 PM

At least someone has the balls to stand up to this big brother bullshit.

**devman1983** · February-13-10, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

At least someone has the balls to stand up to this big brother bullshit.

There are plenty of other examples to use when complaining about big brother. Being safe while flying is something we all want.

**gibran** · February-13-10, 12:49 PM

One just has to connect the dot to see why "they hate us"... There is a definite shift in the streets of the Muslim world from just being angry at our policies to being angry at us...why...just look at the gross generalizations on here for a snap shot and our relationships abroad as an indicator...

we are going into the xenophobia that Europe did then wonder why here?

Fight terrorism with moderates and justice from oppression...you can build scanners etc...and all you do is chase the bad guys around like key stone cops...band-aid on a hemorrhage. start demostrating our policies match our fairness and that we are helping create a moderate view on Islam...then you will see how instantly Muslims will help...

**East Detroit** · February-13-10, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by devman1983

There are plenty of other examples to use when complaining about big brother. Being safe while flying is something we all want.

I'll pass on the "its for your safety" argument when it gets this ridiculous.

We would also all be safer if every room in everyone's house had video feeds to the cops. Then they could make sure you arent planning or committing a crime indoors. For those who complain, there's the standard "its for your safety" or "what do you have to hide" arguments.

**Big Dog** · February-13-10, 03:01 PM

They can refuse the body scan, if they submit to a full pat down. What's the problem?

**gazhekwe** · February-13-10, 03:34 PM

The fatwa seems to rule that Muslims cannot submit to full body scans. Well, I don't want to either, so I will perforce abide by the fatwa, even though I am not Muslim. How does this hurt anyone, and why would we want to condemn anyone for abiding by a personal belief that does not impact others?

Is it saying they must be allowed to fly despite not submitting to security measures? How can it? That is national policy, which in the US is not affected by fatwa.

**gibran** · February-13-10, 07:39 PM

I don't like the rules but I abide by them...This one should go to a greater safety...what we should do is sit down with the communities and say..ok here's what we are up against; how can we make air travel safe...we understand your sensitivities your feelings...but a Fatwa should be enforced against terrorism and the destruction of human lives. So again we don't look at causes of this...and if I was a young Muslim I would grow to resent the gross generalizations...if I also was a Muslim I would say we are working collectively to fight the extremists in our own culture [[which they are and media is ignoring this)...

The sad thing is that this is growing a life of it's own...and the Muslims who have been here for over 100 years are being forced to live in fear...and experience prejudice...

...demonizing ALL Muslims now is not much different than scapegoating Jews in the 30's in Germany for their economy. With one exception...Jews were totally innocent. A majority of Muslims are too...the fringes are who we worry about ...but why create more anger by demonizing all law abiding ones...stop the roots and the trees will die.

Retroit · February-13-10, 08:29 PM

Why are Muslims forbidden from body scans, but they're not forbidden from blowing up airplanes?

**3WC** · February-13-10, 08:44 PM

There's a simple solution. Any Muslim [[or anyone else) who for religious or other reasons refuses to submit to a full body scan should be locked in a steel enclosed room equipped with devices to explode any explosives they may be carrying.

Problem solved. Glad to help.

**barnesfoto** · February-13-10, 08:52 PM

Question: Is blowing up airplanes filled with civilians a crime or something?
If so, why is Luis Posada Carriles still living in Miami?

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may...ion/na-posada7

Answers: A. Because despite being an illegal immigrant, he is a former CIA employee
B. Because he is not a Muslim
C. Because Cuban-American PACS give lots of money to the Republicans
D. Because there is a double standard regarding blowing up airplanes filled with U.S. Citizens vs. blowing up airplanes filled with er, citizens from the other American Countries.
E. All of the above

**gibran** · February-13-10, 09:58 PM

why is generalizations that demonize people allowed under free speech when it's bigotry leads to bad things?

**oladub** · February-13-10, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by gibran

why is generalizations that demonize people allowed under free speech when it's bigotry leads to bad things?

Legally, speech and the press cannot be abridged.

Realistically, "generalizations that demonize people" sometimes also have the beneficial effects of getting things out in the open which sometimes leads to getting misunderstandings nipped in the bud, identifying and isolating hatemongers before smoldering hatred, unaddressed, turns into something much more dangerous, and working out misunderstandings. Sometimes, however, the "generalizations that demonize people" are correct. If the latter is the case, the demonized group could or should consider changing its behavior. How is the latter hypotherical group, cigarette smokers for instance, even going to know how it is perceived without feedback? Cigarette smokers really don't want to exhale around my wife. She provides unsolicited feedback.

**Zacha341** · February-14-10, 05:59 AM

ROTFL! And some of us are a bit Bionic with metal scattered here and there...

Those of us who have metal implants, odd last names, etc. all endure screening at the airport. It's standard procedure. It is not too much fun. You get use to it!

But er-uh seriously, if we continue this tight-rope, egg-shell walking it is only a matter of time before we have another episode[[s) in the sky or elsewhere. Sure, profiling gone too far is a problem has to take into account specifics [[within the range of the profile) not broad generalizations. Get that.

But, this is getting to the point where there can be no attempt of or appearance screening for safety ala specific profile less the process be full-out judged as big brotherish, imperialist extremist, racist, right-winged, insensitive, not politically correct etc.

Those who do indeed want to "hit us" again are watching carefully and evaluating their next plan of attack as we bicker and debate rather a specific approach is tolerant or extreme, blah de blah.

Oh wait, I cannot say that! That's paranoid. After all terrorism "started" with Bush... My bad! Opps, arghh! My bad again, I mentioned the non-polite word "terrorism". I'll just sign off now......

PS. Not a Bush-bot, never voted for him, but a couple of things have been forgotten: we were hit before Bush [[father and son). Recall: WTC 2003 bomb attack under Clinton and the USS Cole of Yemen and the US Embassy in Africa... etc.

Originally Posted by gnome

Wonder if my radiologist will have to commit suicide after viewing my recent CATscan

**Hermod** · February-14-10, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

PS. Not a Bush-bot, never voted for him, but a couple of things have been forgotten: we were hit before Bush [[father and son). Recall: WTC 2003 bomb attack under Clinton and the USS Cole of Yemen and the US Embassy in Africa... etc.

Do you mean 1993 rather than 2003??

**Zacha341** · February-14-10, 07:43 AM

Yes, 1993! Thanks......

Originally Posted by Hermod

Do you mean 1993 rather than 2003??

**Papasito** · February-14-10, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by gibran

One just has to connect the dot to see why "they hate us"... There is a definite shift in the streets of the Muslim world from just being angry at our policies to being angry at us...why...just look at the gross generalizations on here for a snap shot and our relationships abroad as an indicator...

This is a complete misconception.

What did Egypt do to the Muslims to make them hate them ?
http://www.videosurf.com/video/jihad...7786?vlt=ffext

What did the Philippines do to the Muslims to make them hate them ?
http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=17274

What did the Russians do to the Muslims to make them hate them ?
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/05mos.htm

What did China do to the Muslims to make them hate them ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-Xinjiang.html

The list goes on and on, it is not just the west.
We cant blame ourselves for someone else's violent acts.
If it's our policies you don't like, then pressure our government to change them.
But it does not vindicate someone else doing violence around the world.

Even if we go back in history, the Crusades are documented, against the will of current pop culture that blames us for everything, to be a defensive act in response to attacks from the East.
http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/W...rusadeEra.html
http://www.thearma.org/essays/Crusades.htm

The crusaders were reacting to over four centuries of relentless Islamic Jihad, which had wiped out over 50% of all the Christians in the world and conquered over 60% of all the Christian lands on earth

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles..._all_about.htm

Let me make it clear that I am not blaming everything on the muslims,
as we have our hand clearly in this struggle. But they are not the victim here
and violence should not be justified on either side.

**Zacha341** · February-14-10, 12:56 PM

Yep, even the reasons are complicated and deeply rooted depending on whom you talk to. For certain their opinions are not as consistent as we'd think [[for one they do not all hate us - duh!). I work in east Dearborn from time to time and while I'm not an expert on the subject, it's interesting the range of comments you get from talking to and spending time with people and families from the middle-east. One consistent comment I get from some I've talked to is that the US seems more and more confused and unsure of what direction to take as time goes on... [[hard-line or "soft") as one man said to me.....

Originally Posted by Papasito

This is a complete misconception.

What did Egypt do to the Muslims to make them hate them ?
http://www.videosurf.com/video/jihad...7786?vlt=ffext

What did the Philippines do to the Muslims to make them hate them ?
http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=17274

What did the Russians do to the Muslims to make them hate them ?
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/05mos.htm

What did China do to the Muslims to make them hate them ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-Xinjiang.html

The list goes on and on, it is not just the west.
We cant blame ourselves for someone else's violent acts.
If it's our policies you don't like, then pressure our government to change them.
But it does not vindicate someone else doing violence around the world.

Even if we go back in history, the Crusades are documented, against the will of current pop culture that blames us for everything, to be a defensive act in response to attacks from the East.
http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/W...rusadeEra.html
http://www.thearma.org/essays/Crusades.htm

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles..._all_about.htm

Let me make it clear that I am not blaming everything on the muslims,
as we have our hand clearly in this struggle. But they are not the victim here
and violence should not be justified on either side.

**gibran** · February-14-10, 01:09 PM

If it is a complete misperceptition how come it was based on a journal article about the lack of faith in our ability to be a fair broker in a the middle-east and the growing concern from pro American Muslims that we are not holding up to our promises [[growing disenchantment with lack of progress in halting settlement building)...where did I say anything about justifying or advocating violence..if you have read any of my posts over the years you will find I am strong proponent for Social Justice and Non_violence...and believes that Israel and Palestine have a right to exist in total freedom [[economic and security) within the internationally recognized borders originally established...with the rights of the displaced compensated and minorities of
both countries protected and treated equally.

It is oppression, dictators, repressive policies, our inability to bring a fair process to the Israeli and Palestinian conflict that fuels anger...,It is knowing that in Iraq we were lied and led to a war where many people died as a result that fuels fire...and any time an American weapon is used against a Muslim that creates the hostility...you have to open your eyes papa...and connect the dots...of course anywhere there is conditions ripe for creating the disenfranchised; you will get incidents of violence form the extremists...my point is that we are creating 'facts on the ground" that is causing the moderates to question us...before they were able to separate the actions of our government...now they are questioning our actions as a whole...[[that is a dangerous shift in the paradigm)...

B)
so oldud justifying the above posts that all Muslims are terrorists seems to me seems to have fuel the fire that law abiding Muslims must be facing when confront with gross generalizations...

like all white/black people...all Christians are bible thumping, and all Jews are or all Asians are..generalizations in some areas can be understood...smoking is bad, and excessive drinking and driving is bad..etc...big difference...specially because many people do not do the home work [[not all or that would be a generalization

)

**Papasito** · February-15-10, 12:43 PM

I had a customer at work last week from Egypt who fled Egypt because of fear for his life and the lives of his family. He claimed thousands have died in Egypt at the hands of the Muslims, and that they are taking over quote "everything" and no one is doing anything about it.

I am not an expert on this stuff, but I found it interesting, as I never knew there was a struggle like this going on in Egypt. I'm going to have to do some reading on this.....

**gibran** · February-16-10, 04:08 PM

The Islamic Brotherhood has been at odds with Egyptian Leadership since the 30's...and there has been increased tension in Egypt between Coptics [[Christian minority) and radical Islamists..these tensions become exacerbated when economics/poverty climbs out of control [[Copt's can be scapegoated)...the Secular government also struggles with these splinter "Right wing groups" and are very oppressive to maintain power. This increases the cycle of violence. However, like our own government [[we are religious) most of it's members are Muslim...what you friend is saying is that extremists are getting more powerful and are making head-ways into university...unlike ours- where we are labeled academically liberal they are becoming radically right [[why? oppression and frustration w/ western learning government and marginalizing the Israeli and Palestinian conflicts)...and in doing so we are losing moderates ..but thats exactly what some fear "arab moderates" it takes away from the new world order agenda.