Trouble with Morouns Monopoly

**kraig** · February-11-10, 08:09 AM

What's preventing MDOT from posting traffic updates for the Bluewater Bridge?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...te=fullarticle

**DetroitPlanner** · February-11-10, 08:58 AM

MDOT does post information about the Blue Water bridge.
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,...070---,00.html

The issue is that people cannot compare the two crossings if one person is holding onto the information for the other one. I'd side with MDOT on this one because it is more important to move people in goods in the most effective manner as possible. I'd much rather see through traffic skirt the City then cause the pollution from idling, wasting gas and time. the IBC don't see it that way.

**kraig** · February-11-10, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

MDOT does post information about the Blue Water bridge.
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,...070---,00.html

The issue is that people cannot compare the two crossings if one person is holding onto the information for the other one. I'd side with MDOT on this one because it is more important to move people in goods in the most effective manner as possible. I'd much rather see through traffic skirt the City then cause the pollution from idling, wasting gas and time. the IBC don't see it that way.

Let me clarify the question so that it's in context with the article.

What is stopping MDOT from posting, on a highway message board, what the traffic is looking like for both bridges?

MDOT doesn't need Moroun's permission to post the traffic or wait time. Even if MDOT only posted the Bluewater Bridges information on the highway, it would assist motorists in making a decision. As the link you've posted points out. Information for both bridges are on it. If someone is returning from Toronto or Niagra Falls and they see, from the message board, that there is no wait time to get through the Blue Water Bridge. They probably would be willing to go with the known traffic and not the unknown traffic.

Once again, this appears to be a case of MDOT getting caught up in playing games with Matty while doing a disservice to the public.

**MCP-001** · February-11-10, 10:22 AM

I'm a little unsure of the basis for this post.

I frequently hear about any backups on the Ambassador Bridge from the morning & afternoon traffic reports on the radio.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but are you looking at re-inventing the wheel.

**kraig** · February-11-10, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by MCP-001

I'm a little unsure of the basis for this post.

I frequently hear about any backups on the Ambassador Bridge from the morning & afternoon traffic reports on the radio.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but are you looking at re-inventing the wheel.

Brian Dickerson's article speaks to drivers going to michigan from canada. At a certain point, a driver has the option of taking one road that will take you towards Windsor and the other will take you towards Sarnia. For those going to Michigan, the Ambassador Bridge and Windsor Tunnel [[which was not mentioned in the article) takes the vehicles to Michigan from Windsor and the Blue Water Bridge takes passengers to Michigan from Sarnia.

In the article, Dickerson mentioned how it would be useful for drivers to know what the congestion and delays for the two bridges currently are. The representative from MDOT stated that the state has attempted to collaborate with Moroun on putting together a system that would do that. But, Moroun has not been interested in doing that.

**Meddle** · February-11-10, 10:48 AM

If I was traveling to Toronto or Ottawa and didn't have a specific need to stop in Detroit or Windsor, I'd use the Blue Water without hesitation.

**jackie5275** · February-11-10, 10:56 AM

I think MDOT probably never thought of it. They're more involved in getting the Gateway Project and a second span to look the way they initally wanted.

**kraig** · February-11-10, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

I think MDOT probably never thought of it. They're more involved in getting the Gateway Project and a second span to look the way they initally wanted.

And that's part of the problem. MDOT has a responsibility that transcends Matty Moroun. They need to remember that.

**Melocoton** · February-11-10, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by kraig

And that's part of the problem. MDOT has a responsibility that transcends Matty Moroun. They need to remember that.

What responsibility are they shirking? Are the bridges and tunnels collapsing because MDOT's public relations office is talking to Brian Dickerson? Posting the travel times for one bridge without being able to post the travel times for the alternative bridge doesn't allow commuters to make a decision, the fundamental requirement for a "decision" being: more than one option from which to choose.

And if they're "playing games" with Maroun to make him look bad in public, then good. They should. This is one little story that is piling on his recent bad publicity. Keep 'em coming.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-11-10, 11:34 AM

MDOT will only know about a traffic back-up once it hits their facility [[I-75/I-96/Fort Street). By that time it is too late to redirect traffic. You need more cooperation to fully compare the time that it takes to fully cross.

I suppose they could try to get similar information about Huron Church from the City of Windsor, but that would only tell them if there is a back-up ccoming to the States.

**kraig** · February-11-10, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Melocoton

What responsibility are they shirking? Are the bridges and tunnels collapsing because MDOT's public relations office is talking to Brian Dickerson? Posting the travel times for one bridge without being able to post the travel times for the alternative bridge doesn't allow commuters to make a decision, the fundamental requirement for a "decision" being: more than one option from which to choose.

And if they're "playing games" with Maroun to make him look bad in public, then good. They should. This is one little story that is piling on his recent bad publicity. Keep 'em coming.

It's MDOT's idea to have a message board in canada that would alert drivers of the wait times at the Ambassador Bridge and the Bluewater Bridge. The message board would be placed somewhere along the 401 at a point before drivers have the opportunity to choose between taking the 401 to Windsor and the Ambassador Bridge or the 402 to Sarnia and the Bluewater Bridge.

Again, MDOT's position is that Matty isn't interested in collaborating with MDOT on that message board. The responsibility that MDOT is shirking in this case is that it isn't required that Moroun cooperate in order for MDOT to have a message board that indicates what the traffic is like at the Bluewater Bridge, or even the tunnel for that matter. The federal government, as pointed out in DetroitPlanner's link [[ information that he's now ignoring in his subsequent posts), provides that very same information. Therefore, it would not be a problem for MDOT if that's truly what they want to do.

As far as making Moroun look bad. He does a good enough job of that on his own. I'd rather see tax dollars being put to use for an intended purpose.

There's no coincidence that all of these stories on Moroun are coming out at the same time the budget for the state's portion of the DRIC is going to be discussed up in Lansing. Again, game playing. And the public ends up suffering.

**Melocoton** · February-11-10, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by kraig;

As far as making Moroun look bad. He does a good enough job of that on his own. I'd rather see tax dollars being put to use for an intended purpose.

There's no coincidence that all of these stories on Moroun are coming out at the same time the budget for the state's portion of the DRIC is going to be discussed up in Lansing. Again, game playing. And the public ends up suffering.

Unfortunately, Moroun doesn't do a nearly good enough job on his own, since the media in this town and the politicians in this state give him free passes left and right. The things he's gotten away with are appalling.

And the "tax dollar" argument is really weak, especially when millions [[?) are wasted on the legal costs required to fight Moroun's endless obstructions and breaches of contract. Not to mention the associated costs of his demolitions and neglect of Detroit neighborhoods.

I know you are anti-DRIC [[I gather--I don't read these boards enough to know exactly why), so that's part of your issue here, but on the merits I see no case against exposing Matty to some of the public scrutiny that he doesn't get halfway near enough of.

**SWMAP** · February-11-10, 03:37 PM

Today's freep editorial is a little scary. The editor asserts: "The bridge company, which has done an excellent job of operating the Ambassador, has the capital and expertise to make such a public-private partnership work."

Didn't the Bridge just get a maintenance rating of only "fair to poor"? Has the Bridge ownership ever demonstrated any community support other than the most transparently self-serving and cheap???? Today the Freep is actually editorializing that the DIBC should get a share of the proceeds from any new Bridge and from the Blue Water Bridge. Please explain for what reason except that the freep's new owners and editorial staff is carrying some sort of torch for Moroun.

I hope Walter Lubienski lives forever and ever. he's the old guy who challenged Moroun's "Federal instrumentality" mantra fairy tale and won.

**kraig** · February-11-10, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Melocoton

Unfortunately, Moroun doesn't do a nearly good enough job on his own, since the media in this town and the politicians in this state give him free passes left and right. The things he's gotten away with are appalling.

And the "tax dollar" argument is really weak, especially when millions [[?) are wasted on the legal costs required to fight Moroun's endless obstructions and breaches of contract. Not to mention the associated costs of his demolitions and neglect of Detroit neighborhoods.

I know you are anti-DRIC [[I gather--I don't read these boards enough to know exactly why), so that's part of your issue here, but on the merits I see no case against exposing Matty to some of the public scrutiny that he doesn't get halfway near enough of.

So, wasting tax dollars is a weak argument? Well, I guess that's why we waste so much of it.

Here's the question, again. What is stopping MDOT from putting up a message board in Canada if that's what they want to do? If Canada doesn't stop them, neither can Moroun. So, why haven't they?

My problem with the DRIC is that it's going to serve only about 10,000 vehicles per day while we're not matching the funds for the roads that serve millions of people in the state.

I don't have a problem with someone spending money on luxuries, and that's what the DRIC is, a luxury. But, make sure you took care of the necessities first. And that, is what MDOT is not taking care of.

**Melocoton** · February-11-10, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

So, wasting tax dollars is a weak argument? Well, I guess that's why we waste so much of it.

No. Your claim that THIS [[i.e., talking to Brian Dickerson) is a waste of tax dollars is a weak argument.

Originally Posted by kraig

Here's the question, again. What is stopping MDOT from putting up a message board in Canada if that's what they want to do? If Canada doesn't stop them, neither can Moroun. So, why haven't they?

I don't know. But who really cares? It seems obvious that this thing about signs and traffic is a PR move, intended to serve in MDOT's public campaign against Moroun, in their Gateway Project lawsuits and their DRIC campaign. [[But to answer, the traffic data seems to come from the operator of the bridge, so that's why Moroun could stop them).

As for the rest of it, about DRIC, that's another argument for another day and thread.

**Ltdave** · February-11-10, 08:27 PM

The message board would be placed somewhere along the 401 at a point before drivers have the opportunity to choose between taking the 401 to Windsor and the Ambassador Bridge or the 402 to Sarnia and the Bluewater Bridge.

that would be in London, ONT. it is almost 60 miles east of port huron and in theory, the information given could be wrong by the time you got there...

if I was coming back from toronto or niagara falls, theres NO WAY id go down to windsor to cross into the states, but id use the bluewater bridges EVERYTIME. i only live 4 miles from there...

**gnome** · February-11-10, 08:40 PM

Matty and his taint sniffer, Dan Smithers Stamper, have destoyed neighborhoods, stolen streets, closed of public access, patrol city property with his private army and the worst thing Brian freaking Dickerson can complain abut is that The Bridge people don't share?

This is from the same paper that two days ago proposed that Matty and Co operate the DRIC, Bluewater and Ambassador bridges inorder to chill the old goat down.

What is Brian Dickerson up to? Wasting our time on a kindergraten complaint when Matty's slum properties continue to rob citizens of their ability to live in peace and harmony. Imagine having that train station in your backyard in Birmingdale Pointes. That would never have happened almost any other city, except Detroit.

And the worse thing Brian Dickerson can tell his loyal readers is that MDOT and Matty don't play nice.

what a tool.