Detroit NEEDS to bring new Convention Events to the city

[THE FURY 617]

Wow it's been months since I last posted on DetroitYes. It's good to be back and let's get right to the issue.To me, the city been giving us KIDDY events like Motown Winter Blast,RiverDays[[only cool thing about Riverdays is the music artists).I understand that some of these events are for family and all ages but geeeez!!!Other convention events that are in different states looks more entertaining like:
-Exxxotica in Miami FL,NewYork/New Jersey
-ImportFest in Toronto Ontario, Canada
-Mari Gras in New Orleans
It'll be great if these events comes to the Detroit.My favorite events that we have in the city are DEMF/Movement,MotorCity Comic Con[[Novi,MI),Auto Show,and DUB Custom Car Show.What other great conventions do you people wanna see in Detroit?

[313WX]

Well first, let me throw the obvious out of the way. The proper name for them are "Festivals", not "Convention Events." Most of them are local festivals anyway, so it's all in how the cities advertise them [[And frankly Detrroit has always done a poor job in selling itself).

Second, why do you think any convention would want to come to Detroit after the bullshit that took place in the past few years? Metro Detroit can't even handle its civic [[micro) problems maturely, so what makes you think we can cater to major international conventions? COBO Hall is the laughing stock among other major cities in our same boat [[in size, age, presentation and rather simple maintenance). Plus, even if Oakland County had the necessary space to host these conventions [[which they don't and never will), who would want to travel out of their way just to see more bland suburbia? The only reason the NAIAS is still here is because they basically feel sorry for us and the Big 3 are headquartered here. Otherwise they'd be hopping over to Chicago in a heartbeat.

[daddeeo]

It will take a lot of damage control and hard work before Detroit can become a desirable destination again for a lot of people.
That's not bashing but reality.

[mikeg19]

Well first, let me throw the obvious out of the way. The proper name for them are "Festivals", not "Convention Events." Most of them are local festivals anyway, so it's all in how the cities advertise them [[And frankly Detrroit has always done a poor job in selling itself).

Second, why do you think any convention would want to come to Detroit after the bullshit that took place in the past few years? Metro Detroit can't even handle its civic [[micro) problems maturely, so what makes you think we can cater to major international conventions? COBO Hall is the laughing stock among other major cities in our same boat [[in size, age, presentation and rather simple maintenance). Plus, even if Oakland County had the necessary space to host these conventions [[which they don't and never will), who would want to travel out of their way just to see more bland suburbia? The only reason the NAIAS is still here is because they basically feel sorry for us and the Big 3 are headquartered here. Otherwise they'd be hopping over to Chicago in a heartbeat.

Well we did host The Final Four, Superbowl, MLB All Star game, numerous Stanley Cup Finals, a World Series Final. I understand those aren't festivals or conventions, but it shows Detroit can handle a very large event downtown I think. Plus now we have more hotel rooms inside downtown and once the renovation of COBO happens it should be more attractive for more conventions. [[Although I do think that the COBO renovation plan is just a band aid when in reality they need to move the Wings, knock down the Joe and continue to expand COBO more than the plan calls for)

[Mikeg]

The only reason the NAIAS is still here is because they basically feel sorry for us and the Big 3 are headquartered here. Otherwise they'd be hopping over to Chicago in a heartbeat.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I think the reason it is still here might have something to do with the fact that the NAIAS [[and the NAIAS Charity Preview) is conducted under the auspices of the Detroit Automobile Dealers Association.

Now whether the NAIAS can continue to command the high-profile unveilings and press attention which comes with the "International" positioning remains to be seen.

[casscorridor]

I think the biggest impediment to attracting conventions to the city is the lack of rail transit to the airport, or any transit for that matter. It boggles my mind why SMART or even DDOT would not have an Express bus to the airport. It would be so simple, and cost basically nothing extra. But instead, they are satisfied with an hour and a half route winding through downriver before eventually getting to the airport. It would be 25 minutes on a nonstop bus on I-94.

Now the commuter rail is about to start in October, with an "Airport" stop that is nearly FOUR MILES north of the north terminal, when there is tracks a half mile north. Apparently the need to connect Ann Arbor to Detroit was a priority, but why can there not be a separate airport line?

Obviously renovating and expanding COBO will go a long way, but this won't be a fix all. The transit link is as important, if not more important. For example, this summer the United States Social Forum is brining 30,000 activists to Downtown Detroit this June. Many will fly in to the airport, only to be greated with no transit options besides the 1.5-2 hour infrequent bus route. I'm sure there will be some sort of shuttle or rideshare, but for many conventions they don't even bother and choose a better location. Thank goodness the USSF has other criteria to choose their location, considering El Paso and New Orleans where the other front runners before Detroit was chosen. Detroit was chosen because of it is the most depressed city in the US, and because the last USSF was in the south, so now it is coming to the north.

[davewindsor]

Wow it's been months since I last posted on DetroitYes. It's good to be back and let's get right to the issue.To me, the city been giving us KIDDY events like Motown Winter Blast,RiverDays[[only cool thing about Riverdays is the music artists).I understand that some of these events are for family and all ages but geeeez!!!Other convention events that are in different states looks more entertaining like:
-Exxxotica in Miami FL,NewYork/New Jersey
-ImportFest in Toronto Ontario, Canada
-Mari Gras in New Orleans
It'll be great if these events comes to the Detroit.My favorite events that we have in the city are DEMF/Movement,MotorCity Comic Con[[Novi,MI),Auto Show,and DUB Custom Car Show.What other great conventions do you people wanna see in Detroit?

Mardi Gras in Detroit? Why not? Detroit used to be a French colony. Wasn't the old Cadillaqua Carnival Festival that used to be held in the 4th week in July kinda like that, which commemorated the founding and the founder of Detroit. Parades, the.Detroit River filled with 8,000 canoes and yachts, people wearing time period French costumes like Monsieur Cadillac wore. http://www.internationalmetropolis.com/?p=616

[ghettopalmetto]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

[p1acebo]

Mardi Gras in Detroit? Why not? Detroit used to be a French colony. Wasn't the old Cadillaqua Carnival Festival that used to be held in the 4th week in July kinda like that, which commemorated the founding and the founder of Detroit. Parades, the.Detroit River filled with 8,000 canoes and yachts, people wearing time period French costumes like Monsieur Cadillac wore. http://www.internationalmetropolis.com/?p=616

That sounds like it would be a lot of fun.

[lilpup]

Winter Blast and River Days have nothing to do with conventions. You probably don't even know how many conventions Detroit has hosted in recent years.

[Pam]

We don't need Mardi Gras. We have paczki day.

http://www.hamtramck.us/events/pages/index.php

[PQZ]

Well we did host The Final Four, Superbowl, MLB All Star game, numerous Stanley Cup Finals, a World Series Final. I understand those aren't festivals or conventions, but it shows Detroit can handle a very large event downtown I think. Plus now we have more hotel rooms inside downtown and once the renovation of COBO happens it should be more attractive for more conventions. [[Although I do think that the COBO renovation plan is just a band aid when in reality they need to move the Wings, knock down the Joe and continue to expand COBO more than the plan calls for)

Lets review this yet another f'n time. Having worked with the design teams that have been analyzing Cobo for the last six years, I can tell you that knocking down the Joe and expanding Cobo in that direction is very expensive and creates two major headaches.

1. Expanding towards the Joe requires shutting down the loading docks for an extended period of time. That means either no events or events take much longer to set up and tear down during the construction period. As in a two day set up would become a two week set up.

2. Expanding towards the Joe to get any meaningful amount of usable space requires significant grades changes to M-10. Translated: It will cost $100 million+ and at least two construction seasons of complete and partial closures of the Lodge to expand towards the Joe.

Even if the state had the money to do the work on the Lodge, it still would be very expnsive on a per foot gained basis compared to other design solutions.

The best option is a tear down of Cobo Arena and a full expansion right to the edge of Hart Plaza. However, that is not within the budget that the Authority has to work with.

[JBMcB]

Plus, even if Oakland County had the necessary space to host these conventions [[which they don't and never will), who would want to travel out of their way just to see more bland suburbia?

How cool the city they are in may factor in, but it's an incredibly minor footnote in the grand scheme of figuring out where to host. Most people who attend conventions never leave the hotel, if it's a single convention site. If they do, 90% of the time it's to go out to eat somewhere.

Most people who attend professional conventions are there to attend the convention, not to go out and take in the sights.

This is my experience from attending a dozen or so conventions, and helping to run about a half dozen.

[DetroitTitan]

I don't think a train connect to downtown from the airport is as important to conventions as you think. It maybe convenient to some, but Americans drive. If I go to Cleveland I don't look up mass transit, I go to Hertz and rent a car. I think it's an asset but I'd say the vast majority of people just assume drive.

[DetroitTitan]

Cost and the how smooth the convention or event will go are important. Look at Cobo's track record: this year a fire burned down the Audis at the Auto Show, last year the roof leaked forcing people to cover their cars at Autorama. Why would any people take a chance on Cobo when there are plenty of safer cheaper options?

[mikeg19]

Lets review this yet another f'n time. Having worked with the design teams that have been analyzing Cobo for the last six years, I can tell you that knocking down the Joe and expanding Cobo in that direction is very expensive and creates two major headaches.

1. Expanding towards the Joe requires shutting down the loading docks for an extended period of time. That means either no events or events take much longer to set up and tear down during the construction period. As in a two day set up would become a two week set up.

2. Expanding towards the Joe to get any meaningful amount of usable space requires significant grades changes to M-10. Translated: It will cost $100 million+ and at least two construction seasons of complete and partial closures of the Lodge to expand towards the Joe.

Even if the state had the money to do the work on the Lodge, it still would be very expnsive on a per foot gained basis compared to other design solutions.

The best option is a tear down of Cobo Arena and a full expansion right to the edge of Hart Plaza. However, that is not within the budget that the Authority has to work with.

That's a good point. I had not even thought of the impact to the Lodge or loading docks for events. Is it at all possible that the Joe could be gutted and the building be redesigned to fit in with COBO? Going toward Hart Plaza and building along the river seems like it would take away a lot of riverfront viewing. Have they thought about expanding both ways? Meaning, your suggestion of a COBO arena tear down and also using the Joe? Seems like that would give them the desired 1 million feet of convention space.

[PQZ]

That's a good point. I had not even thought of the impact to the Lodge or loading docks for events. Is it at all possible that the Joe could be gutted and the building be redesigned to fit in with COBO? Going toward Hart Plaza and building along the river seems like it would take away a lot of riverfront viewing. Have they thought about expanding both ways? Meaning, your suggestion of a COBO arena tear down and also using the Joe? Seems like that would give them the desired 1 million feet of convention space.

The Cobo Arena tear down option gives them more than 1 MM square feet. It would be easy enough to create high visibility and good interaction with the waterfront ala Pittsburgh.

There would be absolutely no reason to expand over towards the Joe in that scenario except to wastetax payer dollars. Going towards the Joe has a cost per foot that is nearly double the cost per foot of going out over Cobo Arena. The Joe is not usuable as an extention of Cobo. Elevation change and structural issues make it wholly impractical - it would cost more and be far less efficient than a tear down of the Joe.

This has been gone over in the Detroit media more than a half dozen times. Why oh why do people keep coming back to this same old tired idea that has been s**tcanned for more than five years?

[PQZ]

How cool the city they are in may factor in, but it's an incredibly minor footnote in the grand scheme of figuring out where to host. Most people who attend conventions never leave the hotel, if it's a single convention site. If they do, 90% of the time it's to go out to eat somewhere.

Most people who attend professional conventions are there to attend the convention, not to go out and take in the sights.

This is my experience from attending a dozen or so conventions, and helping to run about a half dozen.

Sufficient proximate hotel rooms [[meaning within a 2- 3 block walk) is the #3 most important factor in selecting a convention site. #1 is the convention facility itself. # 2 is cost to rent the convention facility.

#4 is nearby amenities such as restaurants, shopping etc. A key consideration is places for offsite dinners to entertain clients. Close behind that is #5 which is relative cost of travel to the cnvention i.e. flight costs.

A convention center in Oakland COunty makes little to no sense as there really is not a location that could host a convention sna yet provide nearby hotel rooms without a massive over building of regional capacity or provide near by dining / shopping options.

[Trumpeteer]

I don't think a train connect to downtown from the airport is as important to conventions as you think. It maybe convenient to some, but Americans drive. If I go to Cleveland I don't look up mass transit, I go to Hertz and rent a car. I think it's an asset but I'd say the vast majority of people just assume drive.

Not having any form of transportation from the airport to downtown except renting a car or taking a cab is a HUGE pain in the ass and is definitely a consideration for those meeting planners who might consider Detroit! You come into town for a meeting/conference, have to rent a car then pay $20/nt to valet it. Cab fare is high as well.

I just booked a trip to Chicago for the annual National Restaurant Assoc. Conference and have reserved a ride with Go Express in a shared van of 6 people from Midway down to the Mag Mile for $52 roundtrip for two of us! One hour including pick up/drop offs. That's what Metro needs.

[JBMcB]

A convention center in Oakland COunty makes little to no sense as there really is not a location that could host a convention sna yet provide nearby hotel rooms without a massive over building of regional capacity or provide near by dining / shopping options.

Big Beaver corridor. There are several hotels in the area already. Loads of shopping and dining options. A bunch of vacant land ready for more hotels. Transportation - I-75 and rail, with a possible express to Metro Airport. And, a big chunk of unused land that the old K-Mart HQ is sitting on.

You're also assuming that hotels, dining and shopping all need to be there already - Oakland has the cash, and the potential investors and developers, to build this stuff from scratch, if they want to locate a convention center where the Silverdome sits.

[PQZ]

Big Beaver corridor. There are several hotels in the area already. Loads of shopping and dining options. A bunch of vacant land ready for more hotels. Transportation - I-75 and rail, with a possible express to Metro Airport. And, a big chunk of unused land that the old K-Mart HQ is sitting on.

Maybe I wasn't clear when I said that the hotels should be within 2-3 block walk. The Big Beaver Corridor near the former KMart HQ does not have proximate hotels or dining in any thing that would be considered a 2-3 block pedestrian environment. Crossing a large parking lot and walking a half mile along Big Beaver is not the same as walking from the Ren Cen or Book Cadillac to Cobo - for good or for bad. Any new pedestrian environment serivng the Big Beaver corridor would need significant and expensive reworking of existing land uses to make the site attractive.

.You're also assuming that hotels, dining and shopping all need to be there already - Oakland has the cash, and the potential investors and developers, to build this stuff from scratch, if they want to locate a convention center where the Silverdome sits.

The subsidy required to created a new pedestrian environment at the Silverdome site with 3,500 + hotel rooms in a suburban market that is already over saturated would be substantially higher than to expand Cobo with gold plated steel girders.

In an ideal world Cobo, or a facility of comprable size, should have roughly 3,500 hotel rooms within a 2-3 block radius. Building 3,500 new rooms in a new village at the the Silverdome site, presuming a bild cost of about $175,000 per room [[that adds in all the amenties such as gyms, pools, restaurants, all the things expected in a hotel) would run about....$612,500,000.

Or in plain English, the new hotels ALONE for a convention center at the Silverdome site would be 2.5 times the cost of the current Cobo plan. Even Brooks would have a hard time justifying that. It simply isn't feasible to replace Cobo out in Oakland County from a market perspective. It would either be insanely expensive or severely hobbled by lack of high priority amenities.

Of course, Cobo does not have 3,500 hotel rooms proximate to it which has been a serious limiting factor in its ability to attract conventions that maximize its capacity. The real issue is that a convention that uses 1/3 of Cobo eats all the hotel rooms in downtown - which in turn prevents Cobo from booking out the other 2/3rds simultaneously. The number of rooms proximate to Cobo has been steadily going up with properties like the Book and Fort Shelby opening. The casinos have provided some releif as well as their shuttles and gambling amenities serve to offset the fact that they are not withing immediate walking distance to Cobo. Downtown is now about 1,000 short of where it should be compared to nearly 2,000 short just five years ago.

[p1acebo]

Big Beaver corridor. There are several hotels in the area already. Loads of shopping and dining options. A bunch of vacant land ready for more hotels. Transportation - I-75 and rail, with a possible express to Metro Airport. And, a big chunk of unused land that the old K-Mart HQ is sitting on.

You're also assuming that hotels, dining and shopping all need to be there already - Oakland has the cash, and the potential investors and developers, to build this stuff from scratch, if they want to locate a convention center where the Silverdome sits.

That really would not be convenient for people coming into town for a convention considering you have to DRIVE everywhere around that area [[Not very fun driving up and down Big Beaver at that either).

[izzyindetroit]

WHY DO PEOPLE CONTINUALLY CAPITALIZE cobo??

[JBMcB]

The Big Beaver Corridor near the former KMart HQ does not have proximate hotels or dining in any thing that would be considered a 2-3 block pedestrian environment.

The Vegas convention center is much, much more than a two "block" walk away from most hotels in the strip [[a block in Vegas is about a half a mile.) The tram doesn't count, as it can barely shuttle a few hundred people an hour. Shuttles work there, they could work up and down Big Beaver as well.

Crossing a large parking lot and walking a half mile along Big Beaver is not the same as walking from the Ren Cen or Book Cadillac to Cobo

Enclosed pedestrian bridges. You might have noticed them going over Big Beaver at Somerset already. A few more wouldn't be a big deal.

Any new pedestrian environment serivng the Big Beaver corridor would need significant and expensive reworking of existing land uses to make the site attractive.

Oakland would be willing to shell out, I'd wager.

I'm not saying it's a perfect situation for a convention center, but I wouldn't completely rule it out.

The main competition Oakland can provide is a functioning, business-friendly government that can get projects green-lighted. I'm sure if a few more hotels were put downtown, some work was done making Cobo a bit more pedestrian-accessible, and Cobo itself was revamped, it would be a fantastic place for conventions.

As it stands, the city can barely keep streetlights working. Developers, when given a choice, will take the more expensive project with a higher probability of going smoothly, than a project run through a nearly-incompetent city hall.

[DetroitPlanner]

WHY DO PEOPLE CONTINUALLY CAPITALIZE cobo??

Because local history is poorly taught. They think its a shortcut for COnevention Building Organization.

I don't know about Oakland ever becomming a major convention player on its own. They have had the Rock and its predessor for quite some time. Most of the new hotels built in this region since the Rock opened are still located either downtown or by the airport. Besides we need to work cooperatively even more than ever now that even the great OC is broke.