Lions: Last of the pre-1970 merger teams not to make to the Super Bowl...

**Al Publican** · February-05-10, 04:56 AM

With the Saints making it to the Super Bowl, only the Lions remain of pre-1970 AFL-NFL merger teams not to have appeared in the Super Bowl. The Cardinals [[late of Chicago and St. Louis) and the Saints, a '67 expansion team, were the other pre-1970 teams that had not been to the Super Bowl with the Cardinals making it to the big game last year.

I'm going to make a Van Patrick-style prediction that the Lions will make it to the Super Bowl before the end of the decade. Or is that more of a JFK-style prediction?

**Big Dog** · February-05-10, 05:20 AM

Seeing is believing.

**jefferson78** · February-05-10, 08:40 AM

My money is on pigs being able to fly and Hell freezing over before that happens.

**Big Dog** · February-05-10, 09:23 AM

Fact: the lions are the worst football franchise in decades.

**Detroitej72** · February-06-10, 12:28 PM

At least Cleveland Browns fan can feel our pain!

**smogboy** · February-06-10, 01:50 PM

As pathetic as the Lions team has been, they're still our team and we continue to follow them. Like it or not, they're our entry into the NFL.

Don't like 'em? Follow another team then. It's that simple. But if one wants to discuss William Clay Ford, the Russ Thomas era, Matt Millen's embarrassment, or what color shoelaces Jason Hanson uses- then by all means... discuss! But then if one really and sincerely doesn't care about this historically bad franchise- why even waste one second of your day ranting about it? We already know the historical facts of this team, we have access to stats galore, we know the team records, and we know where we've been.

Why state the obvious??

**smogboy** · February-06-10, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

At least Cleveland Browns fan can feel our pain!

At times I can almost feel more for our Cleveland brethren.

Cavaliers? 0 championships- closest is the Eastern Conference championship in 2007.
Indians? 1920 & 1948 World Series wins.
Barons? 0 championships and folded in 1978 after only two NHL seasons.
Browns [[pre-Baltimore Ravens move)? 1950, 1954, 1955, 1964 NFL Championships

Not exactly the City of Champions by any stretch for their four major sports.

**Big Dog** · February-06-10, 03:13 PM

It is the truth. detroit lions champion 1957. Yikes!

**Hermod** · February-06-10, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

It is the truth. detroit lions champion 1957. Yikes!

Buddy Parker
Doak Walker
Bobby Layne
Leon Hart
Les Bingaman

**Detroitej72** · February-07-10, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by smogboy

At times I can almost feel more for our Cleveland brethren.

Cavaliers? 0 championships- closest is the Eastern Conference championship in 2007.
Indians? 1920 & 1948 World Series wins.
Barons? 0 championships and folded in 1978 after only two NHL seasons.
Browns [[pre-Baltimore Ravens move)? 1950, 1954, 1955, 1964 NFL Championships

Not exactly the City of Champions by any stretch for their four major sports.

As far as football is concerned, I'm gonna take it a step further, our 'beloved' Lions last championship title was against the :"mistake by the lake:", Cleavland Browns team.

**Big Dog** · February-08-10, 05:53 AM

Watching the NFL playoffs and championship games and super bowl, is a stark reminder of, how inept and years away the lions are from becoming a contender. They are sooooo awful.

**smogboy** · February-08-10, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Watching the NFL playoffs and championship games and super bowl, is a stark reminder of, how inept and years away the lions are from becoming a contender. They are sooooo awful.

As if watching our Lions for 16 weeks of the regular season didn't already prove it, did you really need to see the playoffs & Super Bowl to validate your observation?

**Big Dog** · February-08-10, 06:10 PM

Good point, but no. It just justified my observation that there isn't much hope for the lions. Believe me, I really do want a winner.

**smogboy** · February-08-10, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Good point, but no. It just justified my observation that there isn't much hope for the lions. Believe me, I really do want a winner.

It really wasn't that long ago that this year's Super Bowl champs were regaled as the Aints. If you were to have asked any New Orleans fan what their chances were about 10-15 years ago [[and I have relatives that are jubilant Saints fans now), they would've said the same about their franchise.

**Big Dog** · February-08-10, 07:45 PM

How about 53 years? I could live with it, if it was 10 or 15, but 53 years? I don't see the hope, I want to see. It will have to be proven to me before I believe.

**smogboy** · February-08-10, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

How about 53 years? I could live with it, if it was 10 or 15, but 53 years? I don't see the hope, I want to see. It will have to be proven to me before I believe.

I guess at what point are you willing to forget that the players on this current Lions weren't even born then? Some of the current players' parents weren't even born then! Sure we can blame William Clay Ford during his ownership, Russ Thomas during his tenure, and we've yet to completely step out from underneath the dung pile that Matt Millen left us- but to fans like you, nothing short of winning a Super Bowl will be satisfactory.

And that's not a bad thing to subscribe to as well because that's what every team in the NFL should aim for but as a fan- how serious of a fan are you if you just cheer for the winning team? True fans don't just cheer when their team is winning. It might be a little masochistic but that's why we're considered fans. I know this team isn't studded with stars, its talent is thin at best, and the play is below sub par. I can bemoan this team for all of its horrific faults, curse its history, rattle off stats, discuss ways to improve the team, and raise my fists angrily to the football gods up in the sky about the Honolulu Blue & Silver, I'm still a fan.

I don't believe that you don't see the hope. If not, why would you waste your time posting about something you don't supposedly care for? Fans always have hope- albeit with the Lions team, it can be slim to fleeting at best. Over the last few years I've heard from so many people who've "swore off this #@#$% team" and yet every Monday morning, they know the score from the day before. Maybe your devotion as a fan has waned but rest assured you're still a fan in one form or another whether it be because you've followed this team since its inception or whether you're just a casual fan that latched onto them last season.

Simply put, people who don't care for the Lions don't post anything about them.

**Big Dog** · February-09-10, 06:38 AM

I never, ever said that I wasn't a fan, or ever claimed not to be. Don't know where you got that idea. I am a fan, a fan with little hope. Many of us exist out there. Don't call me a nonfan, because you are wrong, and don't know what you are talking about. I want them to win, they have to show me. Calling out the truth about a lousy team, owner and one of the worst NFL teams in half a century, still does not make me a nonfan. Where do you come up with that idea?

**smogboy** · February-09-10, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

I never, ever said that I wasn't a fan, or ever claimed not to be. Don't know where you got that idea. I am a fan, a fan with little hope. Many of us exist out there. Don't call me a nonfan, because you are wrong, and don't know what you are talking about. I want them to win, they have to show me. Calling out the truth about a lousy team, owner and one of the worst NFL teams in half a century, still does not make me a nonfan. Where do you come up with that idea?

Generally fans can still find some glimmer of hope in the deepest darkest situations. When all you've pointed out are the negatives of the team such as:

"Fact: the lions are the worst football franchise in decades."
"They are sooooo awful."
"I don't see the hope..."

This team has come close to the playoffs. They've had Hall of Famers. They've had All Pros. And despite all of that, we all know this team has never reached the Super Bowl. But to just focus on all of the past misery condemns this current team and any other incarnation of the team to wear history's mantle too.

And even this current team under Jim Schwartz has got glimmers of hope in Stafford, Delmas, Johnson, Levy and in the upcoming draft. As a fan where's your motivation to cheer for this team if you think it's hopeless? Who do you even cheer for on this team? We already know the past as fans; what's there to seriously discuss about it?

What's your solution as a fan to improve this team then? I'm not calling you a non-fan, but at least be a fair and somewhat informed fan. Let's discuss the good AND bad of this team.

**Big Dog** · February-09-10, 08:16 PM

"Fact: the lions are the worst football franchise in decades."
"They are sooooo awful."
"I don't see the hope..."

The above is all true. I just look at their W/L record. The facts don't lie.

**smogboy** · February-09-10, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

"Fact: the lions are the worst football franchise in decades."
"They are sooooo awful."
"I don't see the hope..."

The above is all true. I just look at their W/L record. The facts don't lie.

No one is denying their horrific won/ loss record; we agree that it's fact. But when you say "They are sooooo awful", back it up with some facts because if I were a St. Louis Rams fan right now, I'd have to admit to the fact that the Lions were better than the Rams based upon facts.

"I don't see the hope..." can be countered with players like Matthew Stafford, Louis Delmas, Calvin Johnson, DeAndre Levy, Sammie Lee Hill, a new GM, a bright young coach, etc..

As far as being worse football franchise in decades, I hate to say it but I'd rather have William Clay Ford bumbling around than the likes of Daniel Snyder who overpaid for his Redskins players [[Albert Haynesworth, Deion Sanders, Dana Stubbiefield, etc.), neutered an overpriced, ill experienced Jim Zorn in mid-season, $25 million and five years to Steve Spurrier, and a stadium that is absolutely horrific.

Care to toss in 80+ year old Al Davis of the Oakland Raiders? Moving the team to LA and then back to Oakland? Drafting a kicker with a drinking problem with their first round pick? Sticking it out with JaMarcus Russell when he's pretty much a bust? Hiring an offensive coordinator before getting a head coach? This man built Raider Nation back in the day but he's so out of touch with what's going on in the NFL now. He still meddles far more with his team than old man Ford.

Bring on the facts.

**Big Dog** · February-10-10, 07:28 AM

My mind will not and cannot be changed on what this lion fan thinks of them. It is fruitless for you to try. I'm not trying to change your view of the team. Let's just leave it at 2 people looking at the same painting and seeing different things. It's a mute subject as far as I'm concerned.

**firstandten** · February-10-10, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

My mind will not and cannot be changed on what this lion fan thinks of them. It is fruitless for you to try. I'm not trying to change your view of the team. Let's just leave it at 2 people looking at the same painting and seeing different things. It's a mute subject as far as I'm concerned.

AWWWW !! Big Dog don't be like that ! Be a glass half full kind of guy. I actually think that the Lions have been so bad we should treat them like the Chicago Cubs fans treat there team.

**jefferson78** · February-10-10, 10:42 AM

I think the reason there is so much negativity instead of optimism regarding the Lions is that it's hard to be optimistic when you've seen this product for so long that you're way past being angry and have settled into apathy.
The only way this team turns around is a wholesale change in it's culture, which has to happen from the top. And that is where we're stuck. The Fords refuse to sell the team so this is what we get.
I also think this team is somehow snakebit. That if something bad can happen, it will.
I hate it when a team like the Saints win the Superbowl and all of the pundits come out and say "does this mean there is hope for the Lions?" Actually no. It means nothing to the Lions and does not change a thing. Our team stinks and will probably stink for a long time.
The only thing that gets me angry is, I love the NFL. Great league, exciting players and games. But here, in our great, but suffering city, we get a franchise that just cannot get it right. I want to root for them but find no reason to. I'm not a slappy that will be behind them good times or bad. I need to see proof of a turnaound before I waste my time reading articles on why this or that draft pick is good. Show me with wins, show me with attitude, show me with effort and show me that you can compete with the big guys. Until then, I will still follow the NFL, but I will lament the fact that we do not have a competitive team and most likely won't for some time to come. We are farther away than most people would like to believe.

**smogboy** · February-10-10, 11:36 AM

Y'know I'm not even positive or negative about this team.

If this team does good, then hooray [[with a period and not an exclamation mark). If the team does bad, then they should be criticized for it. Let's be fair to them about it. If nothing else, I think that being honest with what we have is fair. This team has been more than miserable for most of our adult lives, but that's not to say there hasn't been some bright spots. Let's take some of the emotion out of it if we can; I know it's difficult at times being fans but let's at least try to discuss what works and what doesn't.

**jefferson78** · February-10-10, 02:16 PM

Ok Smogboy, I agree with what you're saying. It is hard to separate the emotion, being naturally emotional abut my hometown teams.
By the way, I like reading your posts. You come off as an intelligent sports fan yet you don't sound like a slappy that turns a blind eye to what's wrong.
To give you an idea of where I come from, I'm 50 years old and distinctly remember watching the New Orleans game way back when with my Dad and brother and watching Tom Dempsey kick that long field goal to beat the Lions. Little did I know then, that moment seemed to be the beginning of a curse that this franchise has not been able to shake. The next being the Eddie Murray miss that could have beaten the 49ers and put us on the edge of a super bowl appearance. So close, but yet so far.
I especially enjoyed the Wayne Fontes era with Barry running the ball. Granted, he was not the brightest coach but the team seemed to play hard for him and there were some genuinely exciting games. I wish that were the case now but I do not see a competitive team..........yet.