At a Neglected Movie Palace, Cobwebs Are Given Notice

**Dan** · February-03-10, 12:18 PM

I wish something like this could happen to the United Artists [[don't we all!).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/ny....html?emc=eta1

New York City, which seized the building decades ago in lieu of back taxes, has long teased the neighborhood with proposals to restore the lost luster of a local movie palace. But this time, the city says, it is for real.
A developer has signed an agreement, made a down payment on a $70 million renovation and plans to turn the building back into a functioning entertainment site, this time presenting live performances, city officials said Tuesday.
â€œWeâ€™re on our way to making that dream come true,â€ said Marty Markowitz, the Brooklyn borough president, who is to formally announce the restoration in his State of the Borough address Wednesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/201...TER_index.html

Long Lake · February-03-10, 01:04 PM

$50 million in city tax dollars are going into this renovation.

Detroit, given it's current financial situation, can't even think of spending $50 million of taxpayer dollars on a theatre renovation.

**RickBeall** · February-03-10, 01:09 PM

Good for them! Their theatre looks to me amazingly intact!

**exmotowner** · February-03-10, 01:29 PM

Does anyone have any pictures of the Grand Circus theater inside just before it was restored [[after it had been abandoned for 3 years)? I was in there 2 weeks before it closed, and it was not in great shape [[but very fixable) but I understand it was almost unrestorable by the time they started to restore it. Just would love to see the pics and any of the restored theaters before their restorations.

**Gistok** · February-03-10, 01:37 PM

Thanks for the info Dan!

The Loew's Kings Theatre was one of the "5 Wonder Theatres" built in the outlying areas of NYC. This was a project originally planned by Paramount, but due to financial problems, they sold the project [[and 4 sets of theatre blueprints) to the Loew's Corp. [[parent of MGM Studios). Loew's hired their preferred architect, Thomas Lamb to design the 5th [[additional) and final of the Wonder Theatres.

These were called "Wonder Theatres" not for their beauty [[which was without question), but because of their "Wonder Barton" organs. Barton was another organ company, not as famous as Wurlitzer. The Detroit Redford Theatre has a Barton organ.

The 5 Wonder Theatres were:

Loew's Kings Theatre - Brooklyn, designed Rapp & Rapp, 3,676 seats, opened 1929 in a French Baroque Palace style.

Loew's Valencia - Queens, designed John Eberson, 3,554 seats, opened 1929 in a Spanish Renaissance Atmospheric style.

Loew's Paradise - Bronx, designed John Eberson, 3,884 seats, opened 1929 in an Italian Renaissance Atmospheric style.

Loew's Jersey - Jersey City, designed Rapp & Rapp, 3,300 seats, opened 1929 in a French Rococco Palace style.

Loew's 175th St. - upper Manhattan, designed John Lamb, 3,564 seats, opened 1930 in an Indochinese Atmospheric style.

Of the 5 theatres the Loew's Valencia and Loew's 175th St. are currently used as churches... with the 175th the home of the Reverend Ike and his congregation.

The Loew's Jersey and Loew's Paradise are still undergoing restoration. It's great that all 5 outlying giants of NYC theatres are going to be [[or have been) restored.

A few years back Magic Johnson was going to buy the Loew's Kings Theatre, destroy the auditorium, but keep the grand lobby and build a Magic Johnson Theatre complex. Luckily that never came to fruition.

The most famous of all the Loew's Kings Theatre former employees was a 1950s young usherette by the name of Barbra Streisand.

**esp1986** · February-03-10, 01:42 PM

if Detroit hadn't had so many corrupt politicians over the last 10-15 years, we could do something like this ourselves... the city owns [[I believe) the National Theatre on Monroe, and could likely subsidize a project with the United Artists Theatre too... but all it takes is money... no private entity will spend that kind of money on a restoration unless there is a fairly well guaranteed return... I have heard that the National Theatre wouldn't be too expensive to fix up, perhaps less than $15 million and would likely help the city's case in marketing the Monroe Block... As for the UA, it is going to take a miracle for the Ilitches to garner interest in restoring it... even though rumors have circulated that something is underway... but however you look at it, with the massive outside investment that came to Detroit about 10 years ago with the casinos, one would have thought that some of that money would have been used to address blight, but instead it was funneled to Kilpatrick's pals instead... along with tearing down a couple of perfectly fine buildings, the Stadler Hotel included.

**56packman** · February-03-10, 10:51 PM

Sorry Gistok, the organs in the Loews Wonder theaters were built by the Robert Morton organ company of Van Nuys CA. Barton did not, as a rule sell instruments outside of an overnight train trip from their Oshkosh, WI factory. My friend Paul has the console from the Loews Kings on his mostly Robert Morton in his home studio. That is the only Wonder Morton to be parted out.
http://www.wheatonfox.com/index2.htm

**Gistok** · February-03-10, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by 56packman

Sorry Gistok, the organs in the Loews Wonder theaters were built by the Robert Morton organ company of Van Nuys CA. Barton did not, as a rule sell instruments outside of an overnight train trip from their Oshkosh, WI factory. My friend Paul has the console from the Loews Kings on his mostly Robert Morton in his home studio. That is the only Wonder Morton to be parted out.
http://www.wheatonfox.com/index2.htm

Yeah, I know... I was looking thru my Picture Palace Book this afternoon and realized that I was confusing the Barton with the Morton... Apples and Oranges...

Question is... were they that much of a "wonder" instrument... compared say to the Wurlitzer??

**detroitbob** · February-04-10, 05:18 AM

The Loew's is in comparable condition to the Grand Circus and Orchestra Hall prior to restoration...remember Orchestra Hall started restoration efforts in 1976 with a BiCentennial grant and had been abandoned for not quite as long as the Kings, but suffered from severe roof leaks as did the UA and the Grand Circus Opera House. When I saw the process of drying out the Opera House and the amount of damaged plaster that had to be removed I am still amazed when I enter that auditorium and see the restoration and hear the sound of voice and orchestra ring clearly through the room. Ditto for Orchestra Hall. I have no doubt the UA could be restored in similar fashion. Remember the 70 Million to be spent on Loews Kings would be akin to what would be needed for the UA. The one theatre I still and will always miss is the Michigan...

**the rock** · February-04-10, 08:04 AM

Gistok--Who is the author of your Picture Palace book? I would really like to obtain a copy.

**exmotowner** · February-04-10, 08:18 AM

Gistok, does paramount studios have an archive of all of their old theaters? there was a Paramount here in nashville but I cannot find any pictures of any of the old show palaces that were here. [[all gone now). I did find a picture at the Tennessee archives of the outside of the Bijou theater but thats it. There was also a Lowes Vendome here too. My understanding Nashville had approximately 5 old show palaces. Nashville wasnt big on saving their history. Most of it is actually lost. Btw Gistok, I'm coming up for the preservation Wayne tour in August and am looking forward to meeting you.

**rb336** · February-04-10, 09:17 AM

I taught very near there [[Flatbush & Cortelyou Rd) when I was in NY. Back then almost every proposed project met with community mistrust. I wonder what that neighborhood is like now

**56packman** · February-04-10, 10:08 AM

exmotowner--the studios probably don't have jack on any of that, the theaters were all built before 1931, the year the last of their projects began in the 20s were completed. The studios have a pretty short memory--these are the people who sold off all of their silent film negatives for the silver content, leaving a very small percentage of their pre-talking pictures for history.
The best source these days for information is the Theatre Historical Society. They recently republished the two-volume "American theatres of today" an AIA publication from 1928-'29, chock full of pictures, blueprints and text showing the considerations necessary for the design of a "modern" theater.

http://www.historictheatres.org/

**exmotowner** · February-04-10, 02:21 PM

Thanks packman. I tried those sites, but since you sent that link, I went in and emailed them to see if they have anything on them. I've looked and looked and have never even found a picture of them even in the old nashville papers. Thanks for your helpl. EX

**EastsideAl** · February-04-10, 02:30 PM

I've been in the Loew's Jersey theater in Jersey City, which is being restored by volunteers and operated as a place to see older movies several weekends a year, sort of like the Redford here. It is an awesomely beautiful theater that reminds me a lot of our Michigan Theater.

I used to live not far from the Kings in Brooklyn. That was a declining area there on Flatbush Ave. for many years, but now with a retail strip revitalization brought on by large-scale West Indian immigration into the area, and the regentrification and renovation of a couple of nearby neighborhoods of beautiful older homes, that area is definitely on its way up. A saved and historically renovated Kings theater would be a great addition to the area, and would help cure one of the real remaining dead spots on Flatbush.

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that Detroit has actually done an OK job in this regard in the downtown area, better than NYC in some ways, with the saving of the Fox, Orchestra Hall/Paradise, State/Palms/Filmore, Broadway Capitol/Grand Circus/Opera House, Gem, and Music Hall/Wilson, along with the consistent operation of the Temple Beth-El/Mayfair/Bonstelle by Wayne. Of course there is much more to save, or that could have been saved [[the shame of the Michigan stands out). It would be great though if we could do here either what is being done to save the Kings with grant money, or mobilize the forces to do what's being done with the Jersey, to save and preserve a place like the United Artists. And then perhaps even some of our now-empty and decaying neighborhood theaters.

**exmotowner** · February-04-10, 04:31 PM

Yes Detroit has saved a lot more of its theaters than a lot of cities for sure. Nashville had 5 old theaters, and they demo'd them all. Nothing left, not even pictures [[that i can find). I'd just guess out of all of Nashville's historic architecture, they maybe have saved 5% and I bet thats close to reality. Detroit hasn't done too bad in the grand scheme of things.

**Gistok** · February-04-10, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by the rock

Gistok--Who is the author of your Picture Palace book? I would really like to obtain a copy.

The Rock...

Title: American Picture Palaces - The Architecture of Fantasy
Author: David Naylor
Year: 1981
Publisher: Prentice Hall Press

**56packman** · February-05-10, 12:42 PM

If you want the very best book on the subject, go to alibris.com or any other out of print book site and look up "The best Remaining seats" by Ben M. Hall. The author's love for the subject matter is matched by his entertaning writing skill and factual research, in addition to his own memories of having lived through the original era that saw these pleasure domes expand across the country.
Tons of photographs, from New York to San Francisco. Especially informative is the chapter that described a night's entertainment at a big city movie palace, what the acts that preceded the movie were, name entertainers who headed the bill and the last stand for vaudeville. It was written just after the demolition of the Roxy theatre in New York, and Hall, a transplanted New Yorker and movie palace buff really summarized the end of the era with the loss of the most lavish, and famous movie theater in the land.

1960
Clarkston Potter, publishers.

**Gistok** · February-05-10, 05:57 PM

Yes Ben Hall's book is probably the best. Mr. Hall also founded Theatre Historical Society [[THS) now of Elmhurst IL. His favorite theatre was the 5,920 seat Roxy in NYC. Sadly Ben Hall was murdered [[in New York, IIRC) in 1970.

Ben Hall coined the phrase describing the Detroit/St. Louis Fox Theatres as "Siamese/Byzantine". He also said that "Rapp & Rapp built many theatres in their preferred French palatial style, but it is doubtful if any were more opulent than the Michigan".

**Whitehouse** · February-05-10, 11:20 PM

Is the Loew's 175th street theater in danger? The man who saved her in 1968, Reverend Ike, died in July last year. It is however also used as a consert venue.

Performers since 2007 include Vampire Weekend, Eddie Vedder, Sonic Youth, Bob Dylan, The Smashing Pumpkins, Beck, Sigur RÃ³s, BjÃ¶rk,[3] Iggy and the Stooges [3], Modest Mouse [1], The Black Crowes, and The Arcade Fire.

Iggy???! In a church??

Originally Posted by Gistok

The most famous of all the Loew's Kings Theatre former employees was a 1950s young usherette by the name of Barbra Streisand.

Debatable. Unless you think Sylvester Stallone and Henry "Arthur Fonzarelli" Winkler as nobodies.

**detroitbob** · February-06-10, 02:35 AM

The 175th St. aka United Church seems to be doing fine...still hosts church services on Sunday and has had a host of increasing outside events. The Berlin Philharmonic hosted a residency for school children that was filmed last year. Inspite of its location, there is a subway stop almost outside the door, and parking is far easier than Manhattan proper. Overall reviews I have read for events hosted there have been good. Now that the Beacon is priced out of the market for a lot of independants, facilities like this in NYC are going to be in greater demand. Overall the physical condition is great...everything save the pipe organ works

**the rock** · February-08-10, 07:02 AM

Thanks, Gistok. I have now picked up a soft-cover edition from Amazon, and I look forward to receiving it. There is a later [[ 1991) edition now available.