Has society become better or worse...

littlebuddy · February-02-10, 12:31 PM

if better, what factors make America a better place to be as opposed to 50 years ago. If society has become worse, what factors have been the causes that makes it worse. What are you long term views, how much better will it become, or how much worse will it become. Will there be less crime or more? More drug use or less? Will America break into tribes or become a melting pot? I have to say that a lot of you in this forum know alot more about alot more things than I do, and I do enjoy learning from all of you. While in my limited knowledge of things I tend to disagree I still enjoy learning new ways of looking at issues. Thanks for any imput.

**Papasito** · February-02-10, 12:34 PM

Hi littlebuddy!
- The Skipper

**Ray1936** · February-02-10, 12:48 PM

I had occasion to visit my insurance agent's office yesterday. Very beautiful building with plush furnishings. And the staff was all dressed in blue jeans [[and not very good ones, either), sweat shirts, etc. They all looked like slobs. As do most of us today compared to forty, fifty years ago.

Comfortable clothing is one thing. Looking like a dumpster diver is another, and I fear all too many of us prefer the latter.

Anyway, that's one thing that bothers me about today's society.

**sirrealone** · February-02-10, 01:06 PM

I believe two major issues stem from home life differences between then and now:

1) Divorce rates are so much higher than they were fifty years ago. Children of divorce often have more emotional baggage and less stability while more often than not being forced to grow up faster.
2) Fifty years ago, the norm was one parent staying home with their kids. This is no longer the case. So much more of the responsibility of trying to teach kids right and wrong, make sure that they are learning and keeping up, and being there to watch and guide them now falls on others. Teachers, day care workers, and others can simply not create the emotional bonds, build the trust, and spend the time to guide and nurture a child to the extent that a parent can.

littlebuddy · February-02-10, 01:47 PM

RAY1936, The dumpster diver look is in that is for sure. You see it in churches also. As silly as it might seem, even the Hardy Boys, on some of their book covers, had a suit and tie on. I take it that was just the way lots of people dressed back then. I am all in favor of no suit and tie, but why people have to look like slobs I don't know.

sirrealone, I would agree with both your points. I wonder how good adults feel when they have taken hold of those "freedoms" of divorce and working outside the home and seen their families fall apart. Was it worth it to them? Is the real problem that we put ourselves above any other interest and to hell with the outcome for them.

**gazhekwe** · February-02-10, 02:06 PM

It seemed to me in the 50s-60s a family could make it just fine on one income. Dad working [[usually), mom at home, one car. Things were bought and cared for to last, not tossed in a landfill because they were "dated."

At some point, we hit the afterburners, burning through two incomes, tossing things right and left to buy "fresh and new" and accruing a ton of debt until "Kablam!" we hit the wall. That culture, the consumptive one, is being mourned, but it seems to me, here we have an opportunity to learn some different ways while we recover from the big Bust.

I also miss the more dressy look. It seems all we have nowadays is casual, not even business casual.

**MoparDan** · February-02-10, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by littlebuddy

I wonder how good adults feel when they have taken hold of those "freedoms" of divorce and working outside the home and seen their families fall apart. Was it worth it to them? Is the real problem that we put ourselves above any other interest and to hell with the outcome for them.

I don't know littlebuddy...let me ask a woman I know who divorced her husband because he used her as a punching bag from time to time. I'm sure she really regrets the "freedom" she & her children have from him.
In other words, don't be so quick to judge unless you know someone's situation at hand. In addition, the "good ol' days" weren't always so "good" for everyone.

**Detroitej72** · February-02-10, 02:19 PM

To expand on points stated above;

Today's society is a throw-away one. In the past, you bought one TV and kept it forever and even had it repaired, never thinking that it would be considered "out-dated" in a few years. People bought a house to raise a family in, not to flip it in a couple years and buy something bigger and more costly. The list goes on.

This keeping up with the Joneses mentality is part of why it was necessary to have a two-income home. Now, with the cost of living skyrocketing and the death of the manufacturing sector, and their high wages, it's almost impossible to get by on a single income household.

**gnome** · February-02-10, 02:28 PM

My GGGrandmother divorced her abusive husband in 1896. To my knowledge, divorce has never been against the law in America, it might have been frowned on, but never illegal.

On the whole we are more progressive, open-minded and inclusive now than we were in 1960; yet I'll bet we were more polite, more community-minded but less tolerant. Mixed bag.

**rb336** · February-02-10, 02:38 PM

Yes. Both. Neither.

the question is --

would you rather live NOW or 50 years ago. about the only people I can see wanting to live 50 years ago are a select group of white males. yes, some things are worse. some are better. some are the same and it is just our perception that has changed

**Pam** · February-02-10, 03:24 PM

This keeping up with the Jone's

One thing that was probably better in the past-people knew when to use an apostrophe. [[Try Joneses next time. Nothing personal ej72, just one of my pet peeves.)

Yes. Both. Neither.

the question is --

would you rather live NOW or 50 years ago. about the only people I can see wanting to live 50 years ago are a select group of white males. yes, some things are worse. some are better. some are the same and it is just our perception that has changed

Agree.

While some take the casual dress thing too far, I'm glad the days of mandatory skirts, heels and girdles for women is over.

**Papasito** · February-02-10, 03:35 PM

Women aren't always the victim. There's some pretty cruel wives out there..........
Abuse works both ways.

**Ray1936** · February-02-10, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

While some take the casual dress thing too far, I'm glad the days of mandatory skirts, heels and girdles for women is over.

LOL, Pam! Okay, I agree; I was thinking from a male point of view originally. But heels are the stupidest thing ever invented, and I won't even get into girdles [[I didn't really just say that, did I????)

Skirts are nice, but I guess they really go with heels, so I'll completely agree with you.

**lpg** · February-02-10, 05:26 PM

One area that has become worse seems to be the lack of respect for anything or anyone. I grew up in the 50's and even if I did not like or care for someone older I kept it to myself. We never thought to mouth off to our parents or teachers or any adult for that matter. My daughter attended the same elementary and high school that I did. When my wife and I attended conferences we were appalled at the behavior and lack of respect and manners. Of course the lack of attendance by one or both of the other kids parents told volumes about what they learned at home.
The thought of "It's all about me" has added to the problem.

**Sstashmoo** · February-02-10, 06:21 PM

Quote: "I'm glad the days of mandatory skirts, heels and girdles for women is over."

I'm not, nothing says female louder than one dressed like one.

**Sstashmoo** · February-02-10, 06:26 PM

Quote: "And, I think the divorce rate is ridicules, and people should think of it as a last resort"

Thank "Women's Liberation" for that line of thinking and divorce rates near 60% and higher on second marriages. They want their cake and eat it too. Can't build anything with that line of reasoning.

**Pam** · February-02-10, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "I'm glad the days of mandatory skirts, heels and girdles for women is over."

I'm not, nothing says female louder than one dressed like one.

Except for when it says "drag queen."

**Sstashmoo** · February-02-10, 07:39 PM

Quote: "Except for when it says "drag queen.""

Then that's a problem...

Did I use the apostrophe correctly? Just checkin'

**Detroitej72** · February-02-10, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Pam

One thing that was probably better in the past-people knew when to use an apostrophe. [[Try Joneses next time. Nothing personal ej72, just one of my pet peeve.

Sorry, I guess my English skills are waning.

**gibran** · February-02-10, 08:48 PM

broad generalization...

You have to put things into context of how the times effected everyone...there were great things which we all miss and not so great things that needed changing...
health care services better ..delivery worse or about the same....

Depression, WWII Korea Viet Nam....guess you can say they were quaint times if you look at snap shot of people pulling together or dark times as people killed each other...

No civil rights for Blacks, Women, and People with Disabilities..but we wore pants with ties and went to church more often...

You have to examine all of the phenomena of the times to make a strong case and how it affected everyone..not just the Ozzie and the Beaver...

**oladub** · February-02-10, 09:11 PM

No internet, just channels 2,4,7, 9, and maybe 56. I think its the technology that expanded ideas that I would miss the most. Fifty years of technological improvement also offer us better health care. For all of that, I doubt that people are happier today.

I was in Taiwan recently and noticing the courtesy of the Taiwanese to each other reminded me of how that used to be more the norm here. Still, like most people here, I wouldn't want to go back to 1960 despite the crime, broken families, and other social maladies that plague us today. Most of us would go half insane with boredom because our own perceptions and need for stimulus have changed over time. We aren't the people we used to be. 1960 would seem so 'square'.

refresher course on 1960 the year Kennedy was elected-
Wikipedia 1960
Google images 1960

**Pam** · February-03-10, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "Except for when it says "drag queen.""

Then that's a problem...

Did I use the apostrophe correctly? Just checkin'

Yes, you did. Now just work on using that quote button.

**MoparDan** · February-03-10, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "And, I think the divorce rate is ridicules, and people should think of it as a last resort"

Thank "Women's Liberation" for that line of thinking and divorce rates near 60% and higher on second marriages. They want their cake and eat it too. Can't build anything with that line of reasoning.

Yeah, keep those wenches barefoot in the winter & pregnant in the summer. They'll learn their place soon enough & to keep their mouths shut when you order them around. Attention! Now police the house & get my chow on the table! Post-haste!

To answer the original question...
RB & Gnome have probably responded best:
"Would you rather live NOW or 50 years ago. about the only people I can see wanting to live 50 years ago are a select group of white males. yes, some things are worse. some are better. some are the same and it is just our perception that has changed "
"On the whole we are more progressive, open-minded and inclusive now than we were in 1960; yet I'll bet we were more polite, more community-minded but less tolerant. Mixed bag."

**Det_ard** · February-03-10, 11:11 AM

Real [[inflation-adjusted) median family income:

1960: $32K
2006: $58K

Up 81%. If we feel like we're falling behind it's because our expectations are so much higher. When I look at an indoor family photo from 1960 and then look around today, I think "where was all the "stuff" back then?"

If we were willing to live with 1960 levels of "stuff" we'd have a lot more money left over and a lot less clutter. I guess we're not willing to do it though, judging from my house and others I see.

**rb336** · February-03-10, 11:20 AM

if you look at this Heritage Foundation graph [[remember, they are a fairly radical right-wing group) you will see that median household income [[adusted for inflation) held pretty steady, and increased during the Clinton administration at a rate = increases in productivity. productivity went up during the 00s, but median income fell.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Lab..._chart1-lg.gif