Treasures of the Detroit Fox Theatre

**Gistok** · January-31-10, 03:35 AM

OK, before anyone says "good lord he's doin' another freakin' theatre thread AGAIN!

..... I just want to say that as far as the Detroit Fox theatre goes... the DYES archives should be your first reference point.

I'm starting this thread about things beyond the fact that "the 5,174 seat Siamese-Byzantine theatre is the largest and most opulent surviving 1920s movie palace" schtick... and talks about some other interesting things about the theatre/building space.

But first here's a few photos to get the newbies up to speed....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/snweb/2779515265/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elsuper...n/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elsuper...n/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elsuper...n/photostream/

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=63

Gotta run, but next time I'll talk about one of the "secret" treasure inside the Fox... namely "THE WALL".... for those who have performed at the Fox, or have taken a Preservation Wayne tour of the Fox... you will already know what I mean.... a wall of performers autographs that goes back to Elvis and beyond.... stay tuned.

If any of you have photos of THE WALL... feel free to post them... I've been a slacker in that department...

**dgrauman** · January-31-10, 07:23 AM

My wife and I took these pictures during a tour in August of 2008. It was actually the second time we had been on a tour and had been able to see the wall. Unfortunately the pictures from our first time didn't turn out.

**Zacha341** · January-31-10, 07:35 AM

Uhh... ah! More photos of the FOX, I love that place. Never too nany posts and pics regarding that subject. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Gistok

OK, before anyone says "good lord he's doin' another freakin' theatre thread AGAIN!

..... I just want to say that as far as the Detroit Fox theatre goes... the DYES archives should be your first reference point.

I'm starting this thread about things beyond the fact that "the 5,174 seat Siamese-Byzantine theatre is the largest and most opulent surviving 1920s movie palace" schtick... and talks about some other interesting things about the theatre/building space.

But first here's a few photos to get the newbies up to speed....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/snweb/2779515265/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elsuper...n/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elsuper...n/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elsuper...n/photostream/

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=63

Gotta run, but next time I'll talk about one of the "secret" treasure inside the Fox... namely "THE WALL".... for those who have performed at the Fox, or have taken a Preservation Wayne tour of the Fox... you will already know what I mean.... a wall of performers autographs that goes back to Elvis and beyond.... stay tuned.

If any of you have photos of THE WALL... feel free to post them... I've been a slacker in that department...

**Gistok** · January-31-10, 03:43 PM

Here's a pic of a small section of the wall [[which by the way is not a flat wall... it goes around corners and partly up a set of stairs). Many musical/theatrical groups get a section of the wall for their entire cast to sign.

Attached is a pic of the wall for the Irish group CELTIC THUNDER [[who topped the World Billboard Charts for their 1st 2 albums). Zara Curtis [[formerly of Riverdance) is one of the groups performers, and is signing the Celtic Thunder part of the wall in this image [[from her website).

In one of her blogs she talks about the 2008 tour, and repeatedly mentions how beautiful the Detroit Fox Theatre is, since she had previously been there when performing in Riverdance.

Keith Harkin, one of the 5 Celtic Thunder stars talked about the Fox in a Derry, Northern Ireland radio interview. When asked how he felt about performing in such a humbling place as Radio City Music Hall, he mentioned that it was great... but that the real eye opener was the Fox... which was like "Alladin's Temple".

Many performers when going on tour don't get much free time between tour dates. So when they get to Detroit, their main impression of Detroit is for the most part the interior of the Detroit Fox. Many performers and groups when touring in other cities, they often perform in mid size arenas or bland auditoriums... so when they perform at the Detroit Fox, it really becomes an eye opener.

Also, much of the wall at the Fox is protected by plexiglass. Many of the signatures [[such as Elvis and Frank Sinatra) are extremely valuable, and are therefore protected from damage or vandalism.

**Gistok** · January-31-10, 04:15 PM

On a different note about Fox Theatre treasures... the Fox's mighty 4/36 Wurlitzler organ is one of the largest theatre organs in the world.

Here's some YouTube links to the organ playing.

In the 1st link the music is being played from the "Slave Console" high up on the side of the balcony. A slave console has most [[but not all) of the functionality of the main organ console down on stage. Maybe 56packman can describe the differences between a main console and a slave console.

In this 1st organ recital [[Christmas music)... someone better tell that kid not to get too close to the organ grilles!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Qjv_9zM9c

In this 2nd video another organist is playing the main console on stage...
this time Johann Strauss's "Radetsky March"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAhpqGhQTsM

And just what kind of power does it require to run the 4/36 Wurlitzer at the Fox??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE4LRLWS3NA

**Whitehouse** · January-31-10, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Also, much of the wall at the Fox is protected by plexiglass. Many of the signatures [[such as Elvis and Frank Sinatra) are extremely valuable, and are ttherefore protected from damage or vandalism.

And rightly so. I can't see into the minds of vandals but this at least gives others like me, who no doubt will ever visit the city at least once in my life, a chance to see the wall by myself. This is a practice done in more venues. One particular example in the Netherlands is the Leiden University. A selected few autographs are protected with plexiglass, see the links.

Most notable persons ever to sign that wall are:
Juliana, former queen of the Netherlands
Beatrix, Queen of the Netherlands.
Crown prince Willem Alexander of Orange
Erik Hazelhof Roelfsema, Soldier of Orange.
Nelson Mandela
Sir Winston Churchill

**DetroitPlanner** · January-31-10, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Also, much of the wall at the Fox is protected by plexiglass. Many of the signatures [[such as Elvis and Frank Sinatra) are extremely valuable, and are therefore protected from damage or vandalism.

Sorry dude there is no Elvis signature. The walls were clean in 1988 long after his death. One of the first acts there however was an Elvis show, so I am sure that is given a prominent spot. BTW, I worked almost every show from 1988-1998.

**Hornwrecker** · January-31-10, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

On a different note about Fox Theatre treasures... the Fox's mighty 4/36 Wurlitzler organ is one of the largest theatre organs in the world.

Were you there for any of the theater organs concerts before the Fox was renovated?

I remember going to a few of them with my brother; Hector Olivera played that old girl for two of them, cranking away louder than it was probably played in decades, dust coming down from the ceiling, as well as a few pieces of plaster. I wonder if there were any recordings made.

**Gistok** · February-01-10, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Hornwrecker

Were you there for any of the theater organs concerts before the Fox was renovated?

I remember going to a few of them with my brother; Hector Olivera played that old girl for two of them, cranking away louder than it was probably played in decades, dust coming down from the ceiling, as well as a few pieces of plaster. I wonder if there were any recordings made.

My first time at the Fox was in mid 1980s [[before restoration) for a Gaylord Carter organ recital. It was what got me interested in old movie palaces. Mr. Carter was silent screen star Harold Lloyd's favorite organist in Los Angeles back in the 1920s.

The show that Mr. Carter put on was awesome... to see the organ console rising up from beneath the stage, and then moving around on the stage itself, magnificent!

Mr. Carter died some time ago in his early 90s. 56packman had the pleasure of meeting him.

**Gistok** · February-01-10, 03:01 AM

DetroitPlanner, thanks for your "insight".

Unlike the Fox Theatre/Building, I really don't know the history of THE WALL... which is why I asked for photos. At the moment I can't recall if I saw a signature of an Elvis impersonator, or if it was mentioned as part of the tour info.

Sadly the Hauser/Weldon book [[by Arcadia) on Downtown Detroit Movie Palaces doesn't mention THE WALL in their chapter on the Detroit Fox. So my knowledge on how far back the wall goes is cloudy at best [[which is why I asked for photos). Your comments explain why my most recent quick look of THE WALL [[1 year ago) failed to find all the 1960s Motown stars names on it. It would be nice to compile a list of all the signers.

On a different note... I want to mention the Grand Foyer of the Fox. Interestingly enough... the 2 largest Detroit movie palaces... the Detroit Fox and the Michigan had fantastic grand lobbies and auditoriums, but the ground floor grand foyer space was not as grand [[size wise, not ornate wise) as some of the taller foyers in other smaller downtown movie palaces.

While the Capitol [[Detroit Opera House) and State [[Fillmore) had 3 story grand foyers [[and the United Artists had a 2 story grand foyer)... both the Fox and Michigan only had 1 story grand foyers.

The grand foyer of the Fox [[between the grand lobby and auditorium) was opulent, although it was only 1 story tall [[and usually had low lighting level) . Only at the east and west end of the grand foyer was there a 2 story rotunda [[that rose into the Mezzanine level). These rotundas had mirrored ceilings, and while you were walking to your seats, occasionally you would be startled by looking up and seeing what appeared to be a 4 story space [[due to mirrors).

Because of the subdued lighting of these 2 grand foyer rotunda's, I was fascinated by this image I came across [[can't recall where). But it shows one of the rotunda's amidst all the opulence.

Ironically, because the 2nd level [[Mezzanine) of the Fox contains private corporate boxes, seeing this space from that level is off limits to normal patrons of the Fox.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-01-10, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

While the Capitol [[Detroit Opera House) and State [[Fillmore) had 3 story grand foyers [[and the United Artists had a 2 story grand foyer)... both the Fox and Michigan only had 1 story grand foyers.

The Redford also has a two-story grand Foyer, though it is not a Downtown Movie House.

**Gistok** · February-02-10, 02:48 AM

When I mentioned that the Fox and Michigan only had a 1 story grand foyer, that was for the main floor [[orchestra level). Each theatre also has a Mezzanine level foyer, as well as several balcony foyers stacked above them. In the Capitol and State, the Mezzanine and Balcony look down onto the tall grand foyer.

As many folks know the Detroit Fox has a "clone" in St. Louis. The Detroit Fox was built first and opened in 1928, while the St. Louis Fox opened in 1929. The 2 theatres are not identical, but near twins. After the Detroit Fox plaster molds were cast, they were re-used for St. Louis. This money saving practice of reusing plaster molds [[often in different configurations) is common among late 1920s more exotic movie palaces.

The Detroit Fox was built into the 10 story Detroit Fox Building, faced in "Cambodian Gothic" terra cotta. The St. Louis Fox is a standalone theatre without an attached office building. So therefore the blocky auditorium is not hidden behind an office tower. This allows for the major difference between the 2 theatres. The facade of the St. Louis Fox has a great window that looks into the grand lobby, while the Detroit Fox has no window, just several office floors of windows, behind which is located the fake organ pipes on the outer wall of the lobby.

Here is an exterior view of the St. Louis Fox great window, with very nice terra cotta ornamentation. The office block allows the Detroit Fox to have a soaring 10 story vertical marquee, while the shorter entranceway of the St. Louis Fox only provided for a very non-descript 3 story vertical marquee. See attached image.

Also, current seating of the 2 theatres is different. The Detroit Fox has a maximum seating of 5,174 seats, while the St. Louis Fox has 4,500 seats.

**Ezri** · February-02-10, 04:36 AM

About the Wall.....

I found an interactive picture of the wall. Run your mouse over it and you'll see the name of the artist who signed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/radiospike/4024173890/

On this post you find a close-up of Frank Sinatra's signature:
http://ontheroad.randmcnally.com/200...e-fox-theater/

**Gistok** · February-02-10, 02:46 PM

Thanks for the great find Ezri! That link is a great way to find specific artists. And that's only 1 part of the wall!! There's lots of other parts of the wall that aren't shown in that link.

The Bill Gates signature mentioned may likely be the billionaire's signature. The Fox hosts not only concerts, but also business functions, which could likely have included Mr. Gates as a guest speaker.

And so many late great stars such as Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson, Sammy Davis Jr., George Burns, Red Skelton and Rosemary Clooney. And then the "still alive" stars such as Jerry Lewis and Tony Bennett... a wonderful display!

**9606 Prest** · February-02-10, 03:58 PM

Here is a painting of the Fox Theatre by a Detroit artist from the Louis Meisel Gallery web site.

http://www.meiselgallery.com/lkmg/im.../gniewek06.jpg

**Ezri** · February-02-10, 05:46 PM

Gistok, now I would love to see the entire wall!!! I'm looking, I'm looking.. I may find it!

Did you read what the author of the pic wrote? It seems like he also signed the wall! He may have more pics of the entire thing....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/radiospike/4024173890/

In fact on the links he gives there is one pic of a staircase with signatures and I was wondering it that could be it ? Can you guys that have actually seen "the wall", take a look at this pic?:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/radiosp...n/photostream/

the theater [[ceiling):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/radiospike/4023416567/

here is the blog for the author of those pics:
http://radiospikeblog.blogspot.com/2...tage-wall.html

**Ezri** · February-02-10, 06:11 PM

You guys wanted to see Elvis at the Fox?

Maybe you know this page already???? There's Elvis at the Fox! pics and promotional posters! here:
http://www.scottymoore.net/detroit56.html

I also find some more nice pics of the theater:
http://www.majhost.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=95757

... and I continue looking for more of the wall ...

**Gistok** · February-02-10, 11:54 PM

Thanks for all the great links Ezri! I never traveled higher than the 1st floor stairwell landing of THE WALL. It looks like the autographs go higher and higher at least to the 2nd floor, maybe beyond.

Most old movie palaces also had vaudeville and other live acts back in the early days. So they usually had the dressing rooms stacked up many floors on top of each other on either side of the stage with a staircase winding from floor to floor. Some theatres had over 100 dressing rooms, so these could often go 8 stories up.

So it appears that with the main floor wall [[stage right) of the Detroit Fox full of autographs that they [[the autographs) would start wending their way up the stairs. I am curious to know how high they go as of now.

Also, thanks for the Elvis images, great find!! In the Arcadia book on Detroit downtown movie palaces, the chapter on the Detroit Fox shows the tall Elvis cutout advertisement at the top of the grand lobby staircase.

As a Preservation Wayne theatre guide, we were given a private tour [[not available on the annual public tour) of the basement labyrinth of rooms given over to mechanical and other uses, as well as private rooms higher up in the theatre.

But one area that we were never shown was the sheet music room. Because most great movie palaces had house orchestra's, sheet music became a very important component of a movie palace.

In his 1980 book American Picture Palaces, author David Naylor mentioned that the Detroit Fox had the rare good fortune of having an intact sheet music library valued at $500,000 [[back in 1980 dollars). However, I'm not privy to its' whereabouts or contents today. Perhaps due to its' value, it remains off limits to all, if it is indeed still intact today.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · February-03-10, 12:57 AM

Having tech'd several times at the Fox I can tell you the the WALL goes almost up to the top floor. Would love to have the showers on the top floor dressing room working, they weren't working last time I was working there with John Legend. probably 2007?

**Ezri** · February-03-10, 05:32 AM

wow! if the wall goes all the way to the top of the roof... I have a lot of searching to do!

I'm enjoying all these pics .... all the history, art...

Well for now I found Jerry Seinfeld's signature on the wall:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/organis...n/photostream/

There are other signatures around but... I may not know the artists [[I don't recognize them..), maybe you guys do?

Another pic of "the Wall", centerd on B.B. King signature:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/42...42029ec555.jpg

I also found some AMAZING pics! you can watch them as an slide show, here you have 2 links:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snweb/tags/fox/page8/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snweb/page94/
[[the second one is many many pages of breathtaking pictures!)
There is so much to say that I don't even know where to start!

Look at the pics! I wish we could know the meaning of each one of the ornaments [[elephants, statues, etc... incredible detail on the last set of pics!) I think that if you click directly on the following link it will give you the 2nd link above as a slide show:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snweb/show/with/254557777/

and Gistok, I am now looking for the sheet music room!

wish me luck!

**Ezri** · February-03-10, 06:10 AM

Bill Gates.... .97

http://www.flickr.com/photos/organist/2897251082/

**East Detroit** · February-03-10, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Sorry dude there is no Elvis signature.

Sure there is. Elvis Costello's signature is plainly seen in some photos above.

**Gistok** · February-03-10, 04:50 PM

A few years ago the August Preservation Wayne Downtown Movie Palace Tours included a visit up into the office tower of the Detroit Fox. This was a special sneek peek at the Ilitch empires HQ.

We took the visitors over to the office building lobby entrance, just to the left of the theatre box offfice entrance. There, past the security guard, we took visitors on an elevator up to the 8th floor, which housed the 3 story glass ceiling atrium that housed the executive offices for Ilitch Holdings.

This beautiful white marble encased space is located directly above the 6 story theatre grand lobby. The most interesting thing about this space was that on the blank marble wall facing the auditorium [[which soars 10 stories) we saw Marion Ilitch's million dollar glass sculpture collection hanging from that wall. These "Dali-esque" style multicolored glass wall hangings were stunning.

We were only allowed to view this space from the staircase balcony, so we weren't allowed to wander or look at specific offices or different parts of these executive floors. Also, since it was on a Saturday, the offices and atrium were empty of people.

Had I known then that this visit to the Ilitch "inner sanctum" was only available that one year, I would have brought my camera and taken some photographs of this beautiful space [[and glass collection).

Any visitors from back about 5 years ago take any photos of this interesting space?

**Bluenote132003** · February-04-10, 01:47 PM

Back in the early '80's I worked at a place called Carter Electric and Supply, located on E. Columbia, right where Comerica Park is located now. Chuck Forbes owned the business, he bought it not only for the land, but also as a wholesale electrical supplier for the theatre maintenance/renovations he was planning. At the time, he owned the Fox, State, and Gem theatres, as well as the Century Club next door. The Gem and the Century Club were also on E. Columbia, before they were moved. Elwood bar was right around the corner, in its original location. I believe Walter was the doorman at the Fox. I can remember lowering the center "ball" chandelier, opening a hatch, and using a ladder from the balcony to crawl inside and replace light bulbs. Also walking around the "catwalk" behind the plaster facade around the center dome and looking down into the theatre itself. There was always a group of dedicated theatre people around back then, holding the old buildings together. They put on a few concerts back then, including U2 and Motley Crue. We would assist in ushering for the shows and get in for free. Some of the people I remember were Greg Bellamy, Aardvark the electrician, and Chuck's son [[name?). Is anyone familiar with any of the other theatre people of the time?

**Gistok** · February-04-10, 07:19 PM

Thanks for the info Bluenote132003!

With the Fox auditorium height at between 105 and 110 ft. tall [[I've seen both numbers referenced), you couldn't pay me enough to climb down a ladder to inside the 16 ft. diameter stained glass chandelier!!

Of the people you've referenced, Greg Bellamy comes to mind. He's the current theatre manager at the Fox, and has been so for a long time. He's a great guy.