Rehab with abandoned buildings?

[MOTROIT]

Some friends and I were talking and an idea of sorts came up, is it possable to rehab a building like the Book Tower with items from abandoned houses that will not be renovated? Making the tower into a loft or open floor plan livinig area?
It would cut the cost of a tower rehab and keep thousands of pounds of debris out of the landfields, as well as employing many.

Just an idea. What do you think?

[Retroit]

If you can find a way to make it economically advantageous to do so, yes.

I'm not so sure that using an old 2*4 from an abandoned home is cheaper than buying a new one. How much will it cost to pay someone to tear off the plaster/drywall, pull out the stud, pull out the nails, etc. all the while maintaining the structural integrity of it?

[ndavies]

Not even the slimmest chance of it being feasible. Obviously thought up by people who know absolutely nothing about construction.

For starters it would cost you way more to reclaim the scraps than it is to buy new. Every board you brought in would be the wrong size/too short. Downtown high rises require metal framing. I know of no vintage houses that contain steel 2x4s. Plaster is not salvageable. You would still need all new electical and plumbing.

That basically leaves trim, flooring and fixtures as the only things you could reuse from a house.

[Dabirch]

Not even the slimmest chance of it being feasible. Obviously thought up by people who know absolutely nothing about construction.

I haven't been here in a while, glad to know some things have not changed...

[gnome]

Motroit, tell me, this idea had to spring to mind once the bong was empty, right?

[gazhekwe]

I like the idea, but our whole building style has moved too far beyond handbuilt for this to be feasible. I can just see the beautiful artistic design of each loft with its unique features taken from houses built [[hopefully) in a time when purer and stronger resources were available. Wood floors reclaimed from old factory floors, cleaned up and installed... Reclaimed bricks. I am not so excited about reclaimed plumbing fixtures, but I could be convinced. The result would be an artisan building, but probably done at greater cost.

When you add up the cost of green, don't forget to add up the cost of throwing away a whole bunch of stuff in another column, and then I suppose we need another column or two for the cost of making and not making new materials.

[DetroitPlanner]

Motroit, tell me, this idea had to spring to mind once the bong was empty, right?

I was thinking the same thing. Would it not be better to recycle some of the parts of the same building? The Book Tower is not in horrible condition. This would keep some of the historic integerty of the building. I would think scrounding around looking for a mish-mash of lumber and hardware, then using it to assemble something totally different would end up being a disaster with different sized studs, doors, flooring....

[esp1986]

Some friends and I were talking and an idea of sorts came up, is it possable to rehab a building like the Book Tower with items from abandoned houses that will not be renovated? Making the tower into a loft or open floor plan livinig area?
It would cut the cost of a tower rehab and keep thousands of pounds of debris out of the landfields, as well as employing many.

Just an idea. What do you think?

There is one big problem with your idea... There is already an overabundance of lofts downtown... so many developers think this way that it would be cheaper and easier to make up the cost by doing lofts, but so many people want apartments, with more than one room, and downtown lacks affordable apartments, which is why the Key Investment Group [[should it actually happen) is planning affordable apartments for that building...

theoretically, yes, it would be more economical, but with so many empty lofts downtown already and not too many affordable apartment options, someone would be insane to build more lofts, because they will never be able to get them all occupied, whether they be leased or sold.

and there is only so much of that debris that can be used... wire is about it, and most of that tower would need heavier grade than a house.

[Detroitnerd]

There is a market for salvaged wood. It is a small one, making up less than 1 percent of the total market for lumber, but it does exist. Primarily, it comprises wood that was used in construction before the 1930s, usually woods that cannot be found at any price today: Rare woods, old-growth wood, etc.

[Bearinabox]

I knew a guy who built himself a house using mostly salvaged odds and ends from various Detroit houses. He built it over a period of decades, gradually adding on to it as he needed more space. The result was a bizarre mishmash of architectural styles, but it was a cool house, and cost him almost nothing to build.

[LeannaM]

I'm not sure about using old wood. Any old fireplaces, special molding, and stuff like that might be good to salvage. But probably not many houses will have much worthwhile material. Some of the Downtown commercial buildings may have been more likely to have stuff like marble or stone in them.

[rjlj]

Great idea MOTROIT,

The same people who are shitting on your proposal would say the green garage project in midtown is horse shit. Don't let that discourage you, they are frozen in the past and inept at how the world is changing outside of Detroit.

http://greengaragedetroit.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

There are a lot of projects that have been completed used recycled materials. A project the size of the Book might be a bit overwhelming but with an open mind, a lot of work and the willpower who knows what could be accomplished.

[Hamtragedy]

Many of these old houses not only have oak trim, and flooring, [[not to mention, most of these kitchens and bathrooms built before 1925 have maple flooring), but dimensional oak joists [[true 2x8s) and 1" thick oak subfloors, [[really, not 3/4"). Don't tell me there is no market for old oak. Most the houses on the east side have mahogany trim, usually 3/4 or thicker by 8".

Another shame on Detroit is that all these beautiful houses are only selling for 30K and no one wants to buy them, but that all this "unwanted" lumber is winding up in landfills. And I see them every week.

Fuckin' shame.

[Hamtragedy]

Not to mention, all those old Neidecken, Speakman, Chicago, Crane, Standard, and Milwaukee bathroom fixtures are made of BRONZE, often with nickel plating, and are being ripped out and stuffed in landfills because some asshole plumber didn't know what the hell he was fixing and replaced everything [[ and ruined the beautiful tile job) with Home Depot crap.

Seriously, that old bathroom in that old house you bought, that doesn't have a crack in the floor, but has a leaky shower stall is 90% of the time is caused by the old shower mixer or faucet with a leaking or stripped packing nut. Rebuild and salvage them for less than $500 by calling a qualified plumber who knows how to fix old house plumbing [[Cross Plumbing on Gd. River, Atlas on Gratiot, Consumers on Harper in SCS.

Or have some jackass come in there and rip up your 85 year old tile just so he can put in a new $75 Delta and run new copper to it, only to ruin your tile embedded in concrete with a sledgehammer.

I see that every day.

[davewindsor]

Many of these old houses not only have oak trim, and flooring, [[not to mention, most of these kitchens and bathrooms built before 1925 have maple flooring), but dimensional oak joists [[true 2x8s) and 1" thick oak subfloors, [[really, not 3/4"). Don't tell me there is no market for old oak. Most the houses on the east side have mahogany trim, usually 3/4 or thicker by 8".

Another shame on Detroit is that all these beautiful houses are only selling for 30K and no one wants to buy them, but that all this "unwanted" lumber is winding up in landfills. And I see them every week.

Fuckin' shame.

Sorry, you're dreaming. A lot of that old wood is not worth salvaging. I pulled up hardwood floors before from an old building. Not only are the surface of the floors normally heavily scratched up and warn from the years, but a lot of times there's splinters along the edges from warping over decades and multiple sandings. Then, there's all those 4-5 inch diagnal nails that held it together that cause you to split a lot of the tongue and grove from the hardwood as you're pulling it out. It's time consuming pulling out all the nails and the old wood breaks very easily. Underneath, you don't have 3x5' spruce subfloors, but planks which you can't use in a new building. The 2x4s from the walls have so many nails in them that the Habitat restore won't accept it and it's really time consuming to pull out the nails just to donate it to Habitat and nobody shows up if you post ads on to try to sell it for 10% of what it costs new. The only thing worth salvaging were the kitchen cupboards. I got fed up with storing it and 95% of that wood I ended up throwing into the dump and paying their dumping fee.

It sounds good in theory, but try doing it yourself and you'll see it's not worth the effort unless you're a retiree with a pension and lots of free time on your hands. But, if you have to earn a living and pay the bills, it's just not worth it and that's why you see so much lumber ending up in landfills. Believe me, if there was a way to make a living off of this, people would be doing it.

You know what the best thing to do with all that old building debris? Pile it up in one end of the city, mix some dirt in with it and make a really nice local ski hill with it to help local tourism.

[davewindsor]

Not to mention, all those old Neidecken, Speakman, Chicago, Crane, Standard, and Milwaukee bathroom fixtures are made of BRONZE, often with nickel plating, and are being ripped out and stuffed in landfills

I'm surprised that plumbers would dump them in landfills and not save them until they have a big enough load to sell it to scrapyards because last time I checked they were paying more for scrap bronze per pound than scrap copper and those bronze fixtures have a lot of weight to them.

[Retroit]

To somewhat contradict what I said earlier, I saw a This Old House episode a few years back where they recycle entire homes. Most of the stuff was not really re-used, per se, in its current condition, but was broken down to make new materials. For example, 2x4s were chopped up to make particle board, drywall was ground down to make new drywall, etc. This wasn't a government subsidized project either, but a profit-making private company.

You know what the best thing to do with all that old building debris? Pile it up in one end of the city, mix some dirt in with it and make a really nice local ski hill with it to help local tourism.

I've wondered about this myself. It would save landfill disposal fees; there is plenty of land available; there are certainly enough demolishable homes and buildings to build a sizable hill; and I would think that as long as only building materials are disposed there, there wouldn't be much groundwater contamination issues to worry about.

[lalynch]

My father-in-law tells me that back in the 1950's you were able to buy used lumber. His step dad built a garage with used lumber. And a lady here, in Lincoln Park, told me that her garage was built out of used lumber many, many years ago. Perhaps 1950's, too, because they bought their house just after WWII.

[mjs]

Not even the slimmest chance of it being feasible. Obviously thought up by people who know absolutely nothing about construction.

Since it was a question asked by a novice rather than a statement by someone acting as if they were an expert, couldn't you have simply started with something more like, "That would be nice, but unfortunately, its more complex than it initially seems."

[Retroit]

^ Rehabbing manners and politeness? Now, that will never work!

[n7hn]

no where did MOTROIT mention what to reuse but so fast people jumped on reusing lumber and other less common products. Ther is so much more of value in abandon detroit homes. Fireplace facades, trim, crown molding, terra cotta, tile, built'ins, bathroom fixtures, windows, light fixtures. wood trim. wood floors. paster crown moldings and medallions, doors, paneling, staircases..... etc etc etc.......... dont mean we gotta reuse insulation and nails for gods sake. I think anything to be torn down should be stripped first.

[rjlj]

There no way in hell that a building can be renovated using recycled materials or if it had a fire. It will never happen. Not in Detroit or anywhere else in the U.S.. I only approve of materials used from stores that have driven mom and pop hardware stores out of business like Lowes or Home Depot. My brain only functions on what I am told is possible and nothing else.

http://www.modeldmedia.com/devnews/7...eld020210.aspx

[Det_ard]

Great idea MOTROIT,

The same people who are shitting on your proposal would say the green garage project in midtown is horse shit. Don't let that discourage you, they are frozen in the past and inept at how the world is changing outside of Detroit.

http://greengaragedetroit.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

There are a lot of projects that have been completed used recycled materials. A project the size of the Book might be a bit overwhelming but with an open mind, a lot of work and the willpower who knows what could be accomplished.

I like the green garage project, but is it really something that could stand on its own with no free labor/materials? The only way a significant quantity of used building material gets reused is if it's economic on its face. No subsidies/freebies.

[gumby]

Since it was a question asked by a novice rather than a statement by someone acting as if they were an expert, couldn't you have simply started with something more like, "That would be nice, but unfortunately, its more complex than it initially seems."

Obviously you haven't gotten used to the "charm" of ndavies.

[rb336]

these two at W Davison St & LaSalle St - I'd like to rehab them