Michigan defense contractor has God in its sights

**Pam** · January-19-10, 06:52 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...bible_passages

Army officials said Tuesday they will investigate whether a Michigan defense contractor violated federal procurement rules by stamping references to Bible verses on combat rifle sights used by American forces to kill enemy fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

**Patrick** · January-19-10, 07:26 PM

Army officials said Tuesday they will investigate whether a Michigan defense contractor violated federal procurement rules

I am not sure about this but I suggest you read the FAR if you want to know the details about federal acquisitions. It's the most complex set of buying "rules" on the planet.

https://www.acquisition.gov/far/

**Pam** · January-20-10, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick

I am not sure about this but I suggest you read the FAR if you want to know the details about federal acquisitions. It's the most complex set of buying "rules" on the planet.

https://www.acquisition.gov/far/

No thanks. I'm not an Army official.

**rb336** · January-20-10, 08:13 AM

anyone who doesn't think it is proselytizing is just plain stupid. I'd give the company a day to stop doing it then strip them of the contract

**Johnlodge** · January-20-10, 09:10 AM

Saw that on the news this morning... Bizarre.

**ZRX Doug** · January-20-10, 09:36 AM

Jeez..took the "real world" long enough to catch on. I've got Christian military bud's who've been giggling about this on the gun forums for quite some time..
"Proselytizing?" Dude..if you're not familiar with the subject, it looks like just another meaningless serial number. If you ARE familiar with the subject, then it's hardly news to ya..preaching to the choir ain't "proselytizing."

**Pam** · January-20-10, 09:41 AM

Whatever happened to "What would Jesus do"? I don't think he'd be going around shooting people.

littlebuddy · January-20-10, 10:50 AM

When He comes back, he will kill lots of people and when he sets up His Kingdom, justice for people and nations will be swift and sure.

**Sstashmoo** · January-20-10, 10:55 AM

Pam this reminds me of the ash tray I once saw in a second hand shop, with a crucifix on it. One puff closer to thee..

**East Detroit** · January-20-10, 11:32 AM

How about throwing in some Koran citations, just to mix it up?

**ZRX Doug** · January-20-10, 11:40 AM

You guys are truly failing to grasp the concept..Trijicon makes "tritium" enhanced scopes, which are essentially glow-in-the-dark sights, sorta like the old radium watch dials..
Each of the scripture quotes which they codify into their model #'s has got something to do with LIGHT.
I'm an atheist, but can still appreciate the idea and see it for the harmless exercise which it is..the fact that it gets a bunch of y'alls panties in a bunch is truly tickling me pink, though.

Me, I like Trijicon..they're among the finest military optics available at the moment..my advice to those who are offended would be to A.) don't read and decode the "message" stamped on the sights, and B.) try not to stand in front of any weapons equipped with 'em..

What kinda name is "Mikey" for an adult male, anyhoo? Wasn't he the kid in the LIFE cereal commercials? Guess the little brat really DID hate everything..

**Gistok** · January-20-10, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

Jeez..took the "real world" long enough to catch on. I've got Christian military bud's who've been giggling about this on the gun forums for quite some time..
"Proselytizing?" Dude..if you're not familiar with the subject, it looks like just another meaningless serial number. If you ARE familiar with the subject, then it's hardly news to ya..preaching to the choir ain't "proselytizing."

Jeeze... as though the rest of us "uninformed" care what your military bud's have been giggling about... most people here likely could care less about "catching on" to what's going on on the gun forums...

**East Detroit** · January-20-10, 03:49 PM

<giggle>

K S 24.35

**Detroitej72** · January-20-10, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

How about throwing in some Koran citations, just to mix it up?

Probably because they don't want to get a Fatwa on them.

**ZRX Doug** · January-20-10, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Jeeze... as though the rest of us "uninformed" care what your military bud's have been giggling about... most people here likely could care less about "catching on" to what's going on on the gun forums...

It's a freaking MODEL NUMBER. Here's the thing..I think you should hand over all the cash in your wallet to me, because it's CLEARLY "proselytizing" with the evil Christian phrase "in God we trust." How could you dare to associate yourself with such a thing? Surely you would never presume to insult a non-Christian business owner by paying with such tainted currency, right?

As to the "catching on" it's been going on for thirty-plus years, and it's never been a secret. Perhaps if you'd been in that tiny minority [[that's a joke, son) of Americans who own firearms, you'd have been aware previously, and understood our disdain for the idiots who've taken up this "cause."

Now suddenly some dumbass do-gooder gets a hair up his ass because the model number stamped on a rifle scope contains an alphanumerical combination, a portion of which denotes a biblical verse, and you bunch of lemmings are more than eager to side with the fool and condemn one of the few businesses in this state that's actually still manufacturing something and not filing for bankruptcy.

**Patrick** · January-20-10, 07:12 PM

No thanks. I'm not an Army official.

No, but you are a taxpayer and you started a thread about this so obviously it is a concern to yoou. Get proactive about this and know that acqusition rules apply to all purchases, not just DoD. Some departments have their own set, but they are small in number.

**Downtown Lady** · January-20-10, 09:37 PM

The two most fascinating things that I have learned on this thread, by far, are that military guys on a gun forum giggle, and that certain things cause Doug to be tickled pink.

Seriously, Doug, take a minute and re-read the thread. You see a "bunch of lemmings" "getting their panties in a bunch" and "condemning the manufacturer" but I'm just not seeing that in what have been mostly laid-back remarks.

**ZRX Doug** · January-21-10, 09:37 AM

Sorry Downtown..my perception of this "problem" is coming from a wider viewpoint than just this forum, and as a result, my commentary isn't limited only to the folks here. This topic has popped up on any number of sites I frequent, and all I can say is that the PC police who rush to beat up Trijicon in every example ARE lemmings..

FWIW, folks who like guns also guffaw, chuckle, cry, eat, sleep & poop..people are people, whether they like to put little holes in things a long way away or not.

**East Detroit** · January-21-10, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by ZRX Doug

...and all I can say is that the PC police who rush to beat up Trijicon in every example ARE lemmings..

Excellent post.

I wasn't sure which side of the issue I was on until your name calling really brought forth an intriguing and principled point that was both thought provoking and clever in its presentation... a crystal and perfect argument.

If more posts on DetroitYES could use this approach during discussion and debate then I think we'd really be able to convince each other not only to respect our individual thoughts and arguments but to hear them through and through and give balanced weight to different opinions.

**sturge** · January-21-10, 12:03 PM

I'm with Doug on this one. If it wasn't pointed out I'd have never guessed what it was. It's not like the whole verse was written out.

**Pam** · January-21-10, 07:23 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_milita...ble_references

WASHINGTON – A Michigan defense contractor will voluntarily stop stamping references to Bible verses on combat rifle sights made for the U.S. military, a major buyer of the company's gear.

In a statement released Thursday, Trijicon of Wixom, Mich., says it is also providing to the armed forces free of charge modification kits to remove the Scripture citations from the telescoping sights already in use. Through multimillion dollar contracts, the Marine Corps and Army have more than 300,000 Trijicon sights.

The references to Bible passages raised concerns that the citations break a government rule that bars proselytizing by American troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, which are predominantly Muslim countries.

**Whitehouse** · January-22-10, 03:13 PM

[[Que guitars....)

Killing in the name of......

**maxx** · January-22-10, 05:33 PM

Albuquerque â€“ Mikey Weinstein, the President and Founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation [[MRFF), the first organization to bring the now infamous â€œJesus Riflesâ€ to light publically, made the following statement after learning gun manufacturer Trijicon will stop imprinting bible verse citations on the sides of rifle scopes intended for the U.S. military:
â€œIts about time! Trijicon's outrageous practice of placing bible verse citations on military-issued gunsights for weapons was an unconstitutional disgrace of the highest magnitude to our military and an action that clearly gave additional incentive and emboldenment to recruiters for our nation's enemies. It is nothing short of a vile national security threat that, despite our nation's efforts to convince the Muslim world we are not pursuing a holy war against them, our military and its contractors time again resort to unlawful fundamentalist evangelical Christian practices, even on the battlefield. It has been said that â€˜civilization is a race between education and catastrophe.' We can now only hope that the United States Congress and The Pentagon will comprehensively investigate how this catastrophe and countless other examples of military religious extremism infiltrates every branch of our honorable armed services. But for now, at least we can take solace in Trijicon's affirmation that it will expeditiously remove the bible verse citations from its scopes. We only hope that the damage from their actions is not yet beyond repair.â€

**Johnnny5** · January-22-10, 05:43 PM

This serial number issue has to be the most overblown, media hyped pile of garbage I can remember.

"Vile national security threat"???? "Catastrophe"????? Is this guy fucking joking? It's a couple tiny, black on black numbers that have no meaning unless you have done some serious bible study. This overreacting political crap really needs to stop. There's actual newsworthy events happening every day, and this is what the U.S media comes up with?