Black Churches Hurt Detroit

southsider · January-13-10, 06:54 PM

Over the few years that I lived in Detroit I couldn't help, but notice how many churches are present in the city. Its such a dichotomy to see the frequency of crime and corruption juxtaposed against so many churches. My personal belief was, is and has always been that the volume of black churches in Detroit hurt the city. Their ideology and careless spiritual axioms create an environment of self loathing and irresponsibility. I'm curious what the forumers think?

http://www.cus.wayne.edu/content/pub...ckChurches.pdf

**Detroit Stylin** · January-13-10, 07:06 PM

Ok......and the correlation between Black Churches and the City's ills are......

DC48080 · January-13-10, 07:10 PM

Oh boy Southsider, I hope you're prepared for a typical DetroitYes nasty backlash. Many of the folks on here are going to be beside themselves because your mention in your headline of anything black hurting Detroit will offend their liberal sensibilities.

By the time it is over you will be accused of being racist and just about the most vile human being ever to walk this earth. Just don't let the self-righteous attack dogs on here get to you. They will attempt to villify anyone who doesn't agree with them.

**Pam** · January-13-10, 07:27 PM

Their ideology and careless spiritual axioms create an environment of self loathing and irresponsibility

Examples? That's a pretty wild statement to throw out with no elaboration.

smudge pot · January-13-10, 07:29 PM

Ban-bait. Flypaper.

**ejames01** · January-13-10, 07:48 PM

Nothing in that paper supports your theory. Do you really believe that most criminals attend church?

Originally Posted by southsider

Over the few years that I lived in Detroit I couldn't help, but notice how many churches are present in the city. Its such a dichotomy to see the frequency of crime and corruption juxtaposed against so many churches. My personal belief was, is and has always been that the volume of black churches in Detroit hurt the city. Their ideology and careless spiritual axioms create an environment of self loathing and irresponsibility. I'm curious what the forumers think?

http://www.cus.wayne.edu/content/pub...ckChurches.pdf

**bragaboutme** · January-13-10, 07:51 PM

What about all the Black Churches in the suburbs?

Retroit · January-13-10, 07:52 PM

I don't think the number of churches is the problem, nor the number of attendees to those churches. I also don't think that churches themselves are the source of Detroit's problems. If anything, they are probably a positive force. However, the disempowering philosophy is very prevalent throughout Detroit, so I wouldn't expect Detroit's churches to be immune.

**softailrider** · January-13-10, 08:30 PM

I have no idea if they're good or bad. There sure seems to be a lot of them in the city though.

**eno** · January-13-10, 08:36 PM

It's an absurd correlation. Are the churchgoers committing crimes?

**Patrick** · January-13-10, 08:45 PM

Only thing I never undesrtood is how the "leaders" of these super churches can drive around in Cadillacs and Bentleys and live in grand homes and have grand lifestyles.

**gnome** · January-13-10, 08:52 PM

this ain't gonna end well.

**gumby** · January-13-10, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by eno

It's an absurd correlation. Are the churchgoers committing crimes?

Well there are a lot more religious people in prison than not.

The original poster is looking at this all wrong. Black, White, Asian, Middle Eastern, green, orange, or whatever churches in general I think are bad for society. Religion asks that you give in to a higher power that is in charge of our lives. To some deranged people they can take that as I am not culpable for my actions. Hell, Catholicism allows you to atone for your sins by confessing them [[I know that is just a quick once over and not the whole process).

I had a catholic friend of mine explain to me why Harry Potter was considered bad and The Lion the Witch and the wardrobe was good by church people even though I feel the themes are very similar and I think it pertains here. He told me the source of power comes from within the individual in the Harry Potter Books where as in Narnia everything looks toward the Higher Power [[Aslan) to save them. Which is essentially the teachings of Christianity, with God all is possible. Lets face it a lot of impoverished people have a hard time buying into the whole just have faith and things will get better nonsense when they look back at generations of their family being shit on by people in power so they decide to take some of that power by force and so on. Growing up in a religious home they are not taught that we have the power within ourselves to rise above and make a better life.

I know that it isn't a perfect analogy and there are a lot more factors that go into than just religion but you can see how this might play some role.

**gibran** · January-13-10, 09:30 PM

all broad generalizations...church provides structure for some...

.most people that attend are still able to sort this out..of course there are always exceptions and some people in power prey or victimize them...but to paint churches with a broad brush and then signal out Detroit's "black: Church as a negative..it's just a generalization and that in itself is wrong. At best misguided research. I can grasp the angst over organized religion...but that still is an individual choice...a place of reflection for some guidance and direction for others...history and family traditions...I still think it serves individuals and families..but some are corruptible and some need reformation... but that's one perception and everyone is entitled to their own on this subject.

**Todd_Scott** · January-13-10, 09:41 PM

Stupid threads hurt DetroitYES.

**cub** · January-13-10, 09:42 PM

You beat me to it Tod_Scott.

**Detroitej72** · January-13-10, 09:52 PM

=gumby;110067]Well there are a lot more religious people in prison than not.

Ever hear that the phrase, "there are no atheist's in foxholes'?

=gumby;110067]To some deranged people they can take that as I am not culpable for my actions. Hell, Catholicism allows you to atone for your sins by confessing them [[I know that is just a quick once over and not the whole process).

Yet you still offer it as your opinion.

Gumby, my man, I'm disappointed that you, a poster whom I enjoy reading, offered such a weak analogy.

**East Detroit** · January-13-10, 09:52 PM

Correlation does not imply causation.

Perhaps a better correlation to examine would be the amount of concrete pavement and the amount of crime.

Retroit · January-13-10, 09:57 PM

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards." - Eric Holder, Attorney General
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/wo....20285924.html

He can't be wrong. After all, he's light-skinned and doesn't speak in a Negro dialect unless he wants to.

Now I'll atone for my sins with a simple: I'm sorry.

MichMatters · January-13-10, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Todd_Scott

Stupid threads hurt DetroitYES.

True that. And everytime a stupid ones graces its pages, a baby Jesus sheds a single tear. Needless to say that this baby Jesus has had enough tears, recently, to fill and even low-volume Lake St. Clair. And, I say this as someone who doesn't think churches in poor communities -- black, white, or otherwise -- do much for their communities, at least certainly not more than what they take away. Most folks don't get a good spiritual return on their investment of 10%, to say the least.

This reaction isn't really about offending liberal disabilities, it's about putting forth stupid, thoughtless theories and failing to back them up with much of anything. I do remember when a lot of the bigotry and prejudice around here was a lot more subtle; it seems to have gotten more bold, lately.

**gumby** · January-13-10, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Gumby, my man, I'm disappointed that you, a poster whom I enjoy reading, offered such a weak analogy.

I said it wasn't the best analogy. I realize I didn't describe what I meant the best but it has been a long day and I should go to bed. I appreciate that you enjoy reading my usual comments but we can't hit all homeruns.

That said, as an atheist, I would be one in a foxhole, just as religious people are strong in there beliefs I am as well in mine. I grow tired of my religious friends stating that without the threat of God to punish people they believe that the world would slip into a state of utter chaos and lawlessness. I once had a friend say that he didn't understand how people who are not religious have morals. I am not religious yet I treat others as I wish to be treated, I have never robbed a bank, I have never killed anyone, heck I even have morals.

Like I said it is far from the only reason and in some cases it isn't a reason at all. I wish everything had a black and white answer but they don't. I am just hope we can move past the racial overtones of the original post [[completely uncalled for btw) and have a true conversation.

**gumby** · January-13-10, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by gibran

all broad generalizations...church provides structure for some...

.most people that attend are still able to sort this out..of course there are always exceptions and some people in power prey or victimize them...but to paint churches with a broad brush and then signal out Detroit's "black: Church as a negative..it's just a generalization and that in itself is wrong. At best misguided research. I can grasp the angst over organized religion...but that still is an individual choice...a place of reflection for some guidance and direction for others...history and family traditions...I still think it serves individuals and families..but some are corruptible and some need reformation... but that's one perception and everyone is entitled to their own on this subject.

You are correct church can provide structure for some, but it can also corrupt others. People kill in the name of God, people kill in the name of science. For some religion is a good thing, for others it is an alternate addiction.