Capping downtown highways

**tkelly1986** · January-11-10, 03:42 PM

I know the idea of capping highways has been discussed on the board before, but is there any stretches downtown where this is actually viable [[structurally)? There is little doubt there are some areas that could regain continuity between neighborhoods through a capped highway [[for example; capping the Lodge by Comerica Park/Foxtown and Brush Park or re-connecting Mexicantown), however, is this possible? I assume, nevertheless, that financially this is a pipedream.

**Detroitnerd** · January-11-10, 03:52 PM

Oh, jeez. That sounds frightfully expensive. That's only done in very special occasions.

**ndavies** · January-11-10, 03:53 PM

Just like Boston's big dig, Most infrastructure projects are feasible, if you throw enough money at them.

**jtf1972** · January-11-10, 04:02 PM

The only highway that in its current configuration I think would/should be a candidate for this is I-75 from John R to 3rd.

**Meddle** · January-11-10, 04:28 PM

Capping?

You mean like that mess along 696 in Southfield and Oak Park?

You DO realize that there are millions of gallons of flammables and explosives passing along those roadways every day, don't you?

**Detroitnerd** · January-11-10, 04:31 PM

I'm not saying that I wouldn't approve of capping I-75 from Third to John R, as it's would probably help unite the CBD with the Dead Zone, but Oak Park seems pretty suburban to have capped freeways. I used to remember why they did it there. It was some sort of religious thing. Can anybody refresh my memory?

**jtw** · January-11-10, 04:41 PM

It was to ensure that all the Orthodox Jews could walk to temple.

**Det_ard** · January-11-10, 04:42 PM

See http://www.ciatrans.net/Community_Im...n/CIM_MI3.html

**Detroitnerd** · January-11-10, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by jtw

It was to ensure that all the Orthodox Jews could walk to temple.

Perhaps I don't have the proper sensitivity, but that seems ... a frivolous use of scarce resources.

**Meddle** · January-11-10, 04:48 PM

And negotiations and court actions were one of the main reasons that section took 20 years or so to complete.

**Blueidone** · January-11-10, 04:54 PM

I lived in the area near I696 when this whole controversy arose way back in the early 60's. Perhaps you don't understand Orthodox requirements Detroitnerd, not that you are insensitive. And I am a gentile, but I grew up with plenty of Orthodox Jews. They are not allowed to use an automobile on their holy days. They must walk to temple. There were many years of discussion about where I696 should travel through this area. The original proposal followed 11 Mile Road, I think. Then they talked about 10 1/2 mile [[Lincoln). Then there was a problem with a wetland somewhere in Southfield. That's why 696 east of I-75 was completed WAY before the section West of I75 through Southfield.

The design of the "park area" over I-696 was necessary to allow the Orthodox Jews a way to walk to temple without having to go miles out of their way. It's no less frivolous than saving a "wetland" by routing the freeway around it.

When these types of projects are designed, there are many things that must be considered including homes in the area, businesses in the area, wetlands, and religious regulations.

**Detroitnerd** · January-11-10, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Blueidone

When these types of projects are designed, there are many things that must be considered including homes in the area, businesses in the area, wetlands, and religious regulations.

I guess that makes sense. Still, it's too bad that freeway plans get every consideration when the residents are well-to-do and organized but run rampant through places where the populace aren't organized and affluent.

**Det_ard** · January-11-10, 05:07 PM

I wouldn't assume that Orthodox Jews in Oak Park are affluent. Organized, sure.

**Meddle** · January-11-10, 05:07 PM

They are not allowed to use an automobile on their holy days. They must walk to temple.

False. They CHOOSE not to. And simple crosswalks would have sufficed as they have for years across the Lodge and the Southfield in many places. They didn't need such elaborate parkways.

**Detroitnerd** · January-11-10, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

I wouldn't assume that Orthodox Jews in Oak Park are affluent. Organized, sure.

It's fair to say that Oak Park's orthodox community is relatively affluent compared to, say, Hastings Street, which was completely destroyed by the freeway, isn't it? That's really what I'm getting at: the different treatments afforded organized communities with political connections and resources at their disposal and those lacking resources, organization and political heft.

**EastsideAl** · January-11-10, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Blueidone

They are not allowed to use an automobile on their holy days. They must walk to temple.

Originally Posted by Meddle

False. They CHOOSE not to.

I suppose it all comes down to who you think is in charge. But most Orthodox Jews of my acquaintance would find it a gross violation of their beliefs and their religion's laws to operate or ride in a vehicle on the sabbath or a holy day.

**Meddle** · January-11-10, 05:26 PM

And they had the money and the lawyers willing to tie it up in the courts for decades.

**dtowncitylover** · January-11-10, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

False. They CHOOSE not to. And simple crosswalks would have sufficed as they have for years across the Lodge and the Southfield in many places. They didn't need such elaborate parkways.

False. OTHORDOX JEWS are not allowed, per their strict observation of the Jewish law, to drive on the Sabbath. If one family decided to "choose" to drive temple they would be nearly damned for working on the Day of Rest. Yes, there is a choice to us, but to them it would committing social suicide.

**iheartthed** · January-11-10, 05:28 PM

Capping freeways downtown is probably a lot cheaper than adding a lane to I-75 from 8 Mile to 14 Mile.

**EastsideAl** · January-11-10, 05:29 PM

I'm sure it is prohibitively expensive, but, given the way it's constructed, covering over the stretch of I-75 [[the Fisher Fwy. for us oldsters) north of downtown does seem like a really good idea. One that could provide both a little belt of attractive green space and help reestablish a continuity with the now mostly empty area to the immediate north.

Covering the other nearby freeways though, with their wide cuts and broad grassy slopes, is, alas, probably truly prohibitive in every way.

**Meddle** · January-11-10, 05:33 PM

But most Orthodox Jews of my acquaintance would find it a gross violation of their beliefs and their religion's laws to operate or ride in a vehicle on the sabbath or a holy day.

Again, that's a personal choice. No one would go to jail if they used a car.

**Blueidone** · January-11-10, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

Again, that's a personal choice. No one would go to jail if they used a car.

When one has deep religious beliefs, there are worse things than going to jail!

**Meddle** · January-11-10, 05:38 PM

False. OTHORDOX JEWS are not allowed, per their strict observation of the Jewish law,

In that area, laws are made by the State of Michigan, Oakland County and the cities of Southfield and Oak Park. None of those say Jews are not ALLOWED to drive on certain days.

It is/was a personal choice. Nothing more.

And again, their CHOICES could have been fulfilled by simple crosswalks at much, much, much less cost to the state.