Lack of Transit Security on DDOT Buses & Facilities

**carlscomputers** · January-03-10, 05:05 PM

We are just fortunate that there has not been a major CBRNE incident involving a Public Transit Coach here in Detroit. If the people in charge of acquiring Federal Grants and/or making Homeland Security decisions at DDOT are unable, unwilling, or otherwise unqualified to do the task, then they need to be replaced! The Federal Government has mandated that Transit Security is to be given the highest priority in terms of Homeland Security, yet, there are still unguarded gates, unlocked doors, few policies/procedures in place, which potentially leaves DDOT wide open for a Terrorist attack involving a Public Transit Coach. I pray that it never happens here, but if it does, I hope the people who were responsible for making sure that the risk was minimized as much as possible will be able to sleep at night...

11.7 Million Dollar Grant awarded to Wayne County Sheriff Department for DDOT Transit Security in May 2007. They were a DDOT dedicated unit, with both marked & unmarked units whose sole responsibility was DDOT security, a task that was done very well, with hard statistical data to back it up. In June, 2009, DPOA won a grievance which awarded them the balance of the contract. They have not done a good job at all!!! There is a lack of concern for Transit Security based on the lack of Officers riding the coaches, the horrible response times, etc., yet they are supposed to be fulfilling the remainder of the contract that DPOA fought so hard to get! There is a lower level at the Federally Funded Rosa Parks Transit Center which is designated as a Detroit Police Mini-Station, yet there are never any Police Officers there? Interesting thing is; Warren Evans was the Sheriff when the contract was awarded to the Wayne County Sheriff Department, now, he is the Chief of the Detroit Police Department??? He has clearly shown he knows how to get the job done regarding DDOT Transit Security, yet it seems he is unwilling or unable to do so now? Wake Up Folks! These are peoples lives were talking about here! Has Transit Security been forced to the back seat of the bus in favor of Politics in Detroit? Hmmm?... 11.7 Million Dollars awarded in 2007, DPD awarded the balance of the contract in 2009... Something just ain't adding up here! Wake Up! Take A Stand! Tell it to anyone who'll listen, because I sure as hell am!!!!

Retroit · January-03-10, 06:32 PM

By CBRNE, are you referring to a Chemical, Biological, Radiation, Nuclear, Explosive attack? Is that what people on the bus are afraid of? I would have thought a simple mugging would be of more immediate concern. Would a terrorist really want to blow up a little bus when they could just as easily blow up a building?

**carlscomputers** · January-03-10, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

By CBRNE, are you referring to a Chemical, Biological, Radiation, Nuclear, Explosive attack? Is that what people on the bus are afraid of? I would have thought a simple mugging would be of more immediate concern. Would a terrorist really want to blow up a little bus when they could just as easily blow up a building?

The goal of a Terrorist is invoke fear and/or a disruption in normalcy. Blowing up a "little bus" as you so eloquently phrased it, would have a devastating effect. People would not ride the bus to work, school, etc., because of fear. And if that little bus was packed with the right materials, placed in the right area, then the damage would be both physical as well as psychological. London, Israel, China, India... need I say more?

**Tig3rzhark** · January-03-10, 10:53 PM

Lately at the Rosa Parks Transit Center, the transit police seem more like security guards than regular officers.

The Wayne County Sheriffs did a better job protecting riders than the current transit police. Maybe when a regional transit authority is established, a security force should be established along with it.

**R8RBOB** · January-03-10, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by carlscomputers

The goal of a Terrorist is invoke fear and/or a disruption in normalcy. Blowing up a "little bus" as you so eloquently phrased it, would have a devastating effect. People would not ride the bus to work, school, etc., because of fear. And if that little bus was packed with the right materials, placed in the right area, then the damage would be both physical as well as psychological. London, Israel, China, India... need I say more?

I'm glad you had to clarify dude's comments. After reading that, I felt like posting something snide but I had to leave it alone. I remember after 9/11, I was debating if I was wanted to get on a airplane to return back to Detroit for the holidays. It didn't help my nerves much when the plane went down in Queens right before Thanksgiving of that year and when Richard Reid tried to blow up a plane with his shoe. To finish, a terrorist is not looking to blow up a building. A terrorist is attempting to kill humans either by blowing up a bus or a building. Don't matter to them as long as loss of life is achieved.

**carlscomputers** · January-04-10, 01:14 PM

Thanks R8RBOB!

Retroit · January-04-10, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

... a terrorist is not looking to blow up a building. A terrorist is attempting to kill humans either by blowing up a bus or a building. Don't matter to them as long as loss of life is achieved.

I didn't mean a little abandoned building, I meant a large occupied building. If you were a terrorist, would you bomb a bus with a few people on it or would you bomb the Renaissance Center?

How would you prevent a CBRNE attack on a bus? Just having security guards or police on there is not going to prevent it. You'd have to have security at least as good as they have at the airport. Is this realistic?

I think the guards on buses were intended more for more ordinary crimes like robbery and assault, not terrorist attacks.

**Danny** · January-04-10, 01:51 PM

Oh Oh! here comes the green flu. There might be a secret transit strike if lack of security on D-DOT buses persists.

**carlscomputers** · January-04-10, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

I didn't mean a little abandoned building, I meant a large occupied building. If you were a terrorist, would you bomb a bus with a few people on it or would you bomb the Renaissance Center?

How would you prevent a CBRNE attack on a bus? Just having security guards or police on there is not going to prevent it. You'd have to have security at least as good as they have at the airport. Is this realistic?

I think the guards on buses were intended more for more ordinary crimes like robbery and assault, not terrorist attacks.

I agree with you in the respect that having airport level security to ride a public transit coach is unrealistic, and it is very difficult to prevent a CBRNE event from being carried out by a determined & crafty foe/adversary/terrorist. I mean really, if you are prepared to blow yourself up, do you really care about getting caught in the act? There have such events lately at well guarded military bases and on comercial airlines.
The main point that I am trying to illustrate is that if there is "some" form of visible security in place, trained properly in respect to public transit security, they may be a deterent to the "ordinary" crimes as well as possibly being able to recognize & hopefully prevent any other types of events which I have desribed.

**EastsideAl** · January-04-10, 05:58 PM

I would think there are greater and more likely dangers to Detroit bus riders, and to Detroit residents for that matter, than the possibility of a bus-borne terrorist attack.

Retroit · January-04-10, 07:07 PM

I agree 100% with your last post, carlscomputers. And after re-reading your first post, with the exception of "CBRNE" and "Terrorist attack", I completely agree, as well. If DPD is receiving money specifically for transit security, that is what it should be spent on.

Have you considered calling one of the TV news stations to look into this?

**stasu1213** · January-04-10, 08:12 PM

Ladies and Gentelmen. I am more concern about the hoodlum getting on the bus harrassing me or other passengers possibly knifing, beating, or shooting us than I am of a terrorist blowing up the bus. We have "Urban Terrorists" who ride these busses everyday. They are loud. Uses profanity and would say something to you if you look at them. The potential is much higher for one the theses "Terrorist" to assault, or shoot an innocent passenger on the DDOT than it is a terrorist placing explosive on the DDOT

**carlscomputers** · January-05-10, 03:38 AM

I'm sorry if it seems that my focus is on Terrorism & CBRNE events, but that is not what I have been trying to say. We, the employees & passengers of DDOT need & deserve to have a dedicated Transit Police Unit like other major cities. We need to utilize the Federal Grant dollars that have been allocated for Public Transit Security! We are a International Border city, we have a Ethnically diverse population, we just had an attempted Terrorist incident in the skies over our great city. The City of Detroit & DDOT need to use these reasons & more to get the monies needed since the Department of Homeland Security has made Securing Public Mass Transit a priority, and the city is unable or unwilling to pay for it! I have a vested interest in this matter since I see firsthand the results of crime & vandalism on the bus. I'm tired of seeing bus drivers assaulted!!! I'm tired of seeing passengers assaulted!!! I'm tired of seeing an innocent child showered with glass, because some stupid person has thrown a rock through the bus window!!! I'm tired of waiting a 1/2 hour or more for the Police!!! People should not feel that it's ok to commit a crime, throw a rock through the windshield, curse, drink, be disrespectful, etc., mainly because they know most of the time the Police ain't coming. I'm not saying put Police on every bus, but at least make them visible & available when needed. The Wayne County Sheriffs were not perfect, but they really made a difference when they provided a dedicated Transit Police Detail. When we called, they came. When you looked at a bus route, they may be on the bus or riding behind. They solved numerous bus related crimes & were a deterrent to many others, mainly because you knew they were there! I'm very passionate & sincere when it comes to the lack of adequate security on DDOT buses. I wish we lived in a world where there was no crime & everyone respected their fellow man when they rode the bus, but, unfortunately we don't, so there is a genuine need for some sort of dedicated Transit Police in this town! I keep saying it & will continue to keep saying it, until someone who gives a damn & can help make it happen hears me!!!

**gnome** · January-05-10, 07:25 AM

You've made the same point several times. You seem needlessly alarmist.

**carlscomputers** · January-05-10, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

You've made the same point several times. You seem needlessly alarmist.

If you've had the experiences that I've had & know what I know, I'm sure you would have the same passion that I do. I appreciate your comment, & will try to tone down the "pending doom on the bus" rhetoric.

Retroit · January-05-10, 01:35 PM

I think your anger at the crimes taking place are justified.

I sure hope people don't misbehave on our imminent Light Rail.

**carlscomputers** · January-12-10, 03:29 PM

Passenger shot after argument on DDOT bus...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/22210257/detail.html

**carlscomputers** · February-04-10, 02:36 PM

Although this article doesn't address all the Transit Safety issues that I have talked about, It's A Great Start!!! Stay tuned...

http://www.freep.com/article/2010020...NEWS05/2040471

**EastsideAl** · February-04-10, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by carlscomputers

Free Press Article
Although this article doesn't address all the Transit Safety issues that I have talked about, It's A Great Start!!! Stay tuned...

http://www.freep.com/article/2010020...NEWS05/2040471

This article is also being discussed on this thread:
Rosa Parks Transit Center eateries???
http://detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?t=4445

**Diehard** · February-04-10, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Ladies and Gentelmen. I am more concern about the hoodlum getting on the bus harrassing me or other passengers possibly knifing, beating, or shooting us than I am of a terrorist blowing up the bus. We have "Urban Terrorists" who ride these busses everyday. They are loud. Uses profanity and would say something to you if you look at them. The potential is much higher for one the theses "Terrorist" to assault, or shoot an innocent passenger on the DDOT than it is a terrorist placing explosive on the DDOT

Yeah, I've been assaulted several times on the bus with F-bombs and N-bombs.
While some DDOT buses are crowded, I really don't see them as a prime terrorist target. There are many other places someone could do more damage.