What's it like near Clark Elementary

**MJCMEX** · January-02-10, 01:13 PM

Hello everyone.

OK I am totally insane, or at least totally adventurous.

I flew to Detroit last fall and looked around because the idea of owning a house for less than $10,000, fixing it up, and never having to pay a mortgage again was very appealing.

I make my money over the internet so employment rate is not that big a concern for me.

Eventually we bought a house on Buckingham, directly in front of Clark Elementary School.

So please without being super alarmist or saying that everything within Detroit city limits is unsafe, can someone tell me what kind of neighborhood this is?

When I google my new address Grosse Point comes up and it would seem that I am about 2 minites away from being in Grosse Point as opposed to Detroit.

I would love to make some forum buddies here and learn more about that portion of town.

Thanks.

**KENSINGTONY** · January-02-10, 01:24 PM

Unfortunately,that area has been declining for a while now.That's the area where there was a rash of arson fires in November/December.It's a shame because that was a typically nice Detroit neighborhood in years past.
I have fond memeories of the area. I went to Clark for kindergarten and grades 1 and 2 back in late 1959 to mid 1962.I used to walk along Waveney from our house on Kensington[[!) to and from the school every day.My Mom taught me the route by meeting me one block closer to home every afternoon for about 2 weeks.We kids would stop to pet Kelly the Basset Hound who lived a block east of the school.

**MJCMEX** · January-02-10, 01:50 PM

Thanks,

I have options with the house in question.

I could fix it up and live in it, or fix it up and prepare it as a rental property and perhaps buy something just a bit higher in price.

When I purchased that particular house the neighborhood still looked good. I have pictures and inspection reports from just after Thanksgiving.

I have not heard if anything further has happened in terms of arson since, but everything looked like a normal city block to me.

You said December there were more arson fires?

Are these being done as gang initiations or are they professionally done?
[[People trying to collect on their insurance?)

Thanks again.

Retroit · January-02-10, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by MJCMEX

I make my money over the internet so employment rate is not that big a concern for me.

It may become a concern when some of the some of the unemployed [[40% of the population) seek "alternative forms of income".

That's all I'll say for now. I don't want to alarm you too much.

You might find this crime map helpful: http://www.spotcrime.com/mi/detroit

Welcome to the forum and welcome to Detroit [[maybe).

**MJCMEX** · January-02-10, 02:28 PM

Hi,

Yes there are many "alternate forms of employement" that concern Detroit natives.
I get that. Parts of town are very scary.

But I am from LA originally and at the moment I live in North Las Vegas.
In LA arson is a huge problem and not just limited to poor neighborhoods.
The minute those Santa Ana winds flare up siome sick nut is trying to burn the foothills down.

North Las Vegas has collapsed in terms of crime but you never hear about crime in Vegas. You would swear that no prosititue ever gets killed in the middle of the night even though casino employees find dead ones stuffed in matrssses every night.

I am not comparing the crime in Detroit to other urban areas, but just saying I am not from some tiny country town with no experience in tough urban centers.

I am moving, there is no doubt about that so thanks for your welcome to Detroit for all of its strenghts and well publicised weaknesses.

**Kathleen** · January-02-10, 03:27 PM

I attended Clark Elementary for kindergarten in the early 1960s; went to St. Clare for elementary school. I lived on Three Mile between Bremen and Waveney. During the summers, we played pickup baseball games at Clark School. The area was very nice back then...we rode our bikes everywhere from Beaconsfield to Outer Drive between Mack and Warren.

In early January 2009, I had occasion to visit the old neighborhood, specifically Three Mile Drive from Warren to Mack. I was appalled at how badly the neighborhood had deteriorated...how many houses were boarded up or open and being stripped. Some lots were actually empty, where I remember the house and the family that lived there. I cried to see how awful the state of the block I grew up on is.

I know that not all the streets in the area are that bad. There are streets and blocks that are still nice places to live.

Good luck, MCJMEX. I hope that you are able to bring that house back and that the block and street are rejuvenated!!

**MJCMEX** · January-02-10, 04:28 PM

Thank you for your well wishes.

I ran comps on the houses nearby. My house is positioned just in front of Clark Elementary on Buckingham. Photos show complete houses, not burned down ones. Some are boarded up, but others have SUVs parked in front of them. Even the very pessimistic inspector I had do a private inspection of the house thought that this portion of the neighborhood was pretty decent, and worth salvaging.

Comps of rejuvinaterd homes sit anwhere between 50 to 75 K. Mine has a brand new roof, but needs a lot of interior work. Plumbing is gone etc. But boy it's a beautiful little art decco house and I would love to refurbish it. My wife is an amazing interior designer.

As a side note: I am not sure what the size of the Hispanic population is in Detroit but one of the best ways to generate salvage hustle and bring an exciting culture into Detroit would be for real estate agents to encourage more Hispanic investors.

Many Mexican Americans in particular like to deal in cash only, have the money to buy foreclosure properties in Detroit, and the "fix it" knowledge to do many of the home repairs themselves.

I wonder if real estate agents in Southeast Michigan would have any interest in cold calling potential Hispanic investors.

Just a thought. Surely there can't be any thoughts of
"oops there goes the neighborhood" at this point.

**Lowell** · January-02-10, 06:47 PM

Detroit is a city of islands. If you have good neighbors, you have a good island. Once you learn your way around you will know how to island hop and will have a blast. Reach out to your neighbors, make them your friends and you will be secure and happy. Bad neighbors in even the richest most 'secure' neighborhoods make life hell.

Good luck and welcome to the D and welcome to the forum.

**MJCMEX** · January-02-10, 07:22 PM

Thanks...I am planning to make friends with them.

**pgn421** · January-02-10, 07:25 PM

Kensington- I went to Clark back about the same time as you. I grew up on Bishop off Mack, then went to St.Clare

**Pam** · January-02-10, 07:56 PM

As a side note: I am not sure what the size of the Hispanic population is in Detroit but one of the best ways to generate salvage hustle and bring an exciting culture into Detroit would be for real estate agents to encourage more Hispanic investors.

http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/mexinvest.aspx

**Johnnny5** · January-02-10, 08:32 PM

Never been on that particular street, but from the Google Street View it appears to fairly well kept. If the elementary school is operating that should mean a reasonable law enforcement presence on the block as well.

**eno** · January-02-10, 09:00 PM

Try this community crime monitoring system set up by the Detroit police. I suppose it's accuracy is dependent upon the veracity of the data being loaded into it.

http://detroit.mi.crimeviewcommunity.com/wizard.asp

**MJCMEX** · January-02-10, 09:10 PM

Hi,

Thanks Pam.

I thought "Mexicantown" was just a lousy restaurant. When I googled it a restaurant that people were complaining about popped up. I'l contact them.

Johnny

Thanks that's a great point. If the school is still in business there is likely to be some law enforcement around to protect the kids.

Eno.

I will try this out later.

you folks are being very helpful.

Thanks.

**mpow** · January-02-10, 09:50 PM

Welcome to Detroit...All the best, that area is pretty cool, great housing stock what is left--solid construction. I commend you on your move and hope more like you follow.

**MJCMEX** · January-02-10, 11:58 PM

Thanks mpow.

My wife and I were taking the virtual tour here at this site.

I have to say even with all of the problems what a great old city Detroit is. Maybe what it needs is some better marketing.

Has anyone thought of turning that whole "tour the ruins" thing into a real tourist attraction?
Also with the old theaters and stuff:
Has anyone tried the "not for profit" preservation angle yet??

If these are dumb questions please accept my apology. I don't mean to be a pain.

**sumas** · January-03-10, 04:32 AM

Welcome to Detroit. Your home is in Morningside Community. I like Lowell's comparing Detroit to Islands. I think I would re phrase that to the word Villages. The term Morningside is a throw back to the horse tracks that existed here on the eastside. Specifically the Jockey Club. Grosse Pointe shows up a lot when you talk about the eastside since all this area was once Grosse Pointe Township.

I live in East English Village, a near neighbor of Morningside. I have the worlds best neighbors. Four Corners is our neighbors to the east. Detroit is not for everyone. But I am a diehard city supporter. Best people in the world. Even our bums are civil.

**epiphany** · January-03-10, 10:18 AM

I lived in that area for a few months. There are still some nice people but a few troublemakers cause problems in that neighborhood. One thing that I observed is that the houses in the middle of the streets are generally occupied by long term or older residents and pretty well taken care of. I'm a young female student and I walked to and from the bus at early and late hours for a long time with no problems... but eventually I did get mugged and I was constantly harassed and threatened by a group of people occupying a seemingly vacant house at the end of the street which prompted my decision to move to another neighborhood in Detroit. I would recommend going to the exact location of the house and seeing who the neighbors are... Are they long time residents? This will make a big difference in whether or not that block is safe.

Another reasonably safe area that I think gets a worse reputation than it deserves is SW Detroit. There are also a lot of cheap houses around there and I love it. Never had a problem, but a lot of people have I guess. I would look around there, though.

Btw, I lived on Devonshire at Warren... Warren is a bad street in that area. Every bad encounter I had was on Warren, but as long as I was in the middle of my street I never had any problems. The neighbors were quite friendly and kept an eye out for me.

**MJCMEX** · January-03-10, 01:27 PM

Thanks once again. Sumas thank you for identifying the little village my house is in. That will help me to better check for crime in the area.

Epiphany I do believe that our house is in the middle of the street and there are plenty of residents left.

I have to say I am very impressed so far with how polite all of you are here on this thread.

Thanks.

Retroit · January-03-10, 04:38 PM

Here's a neat little map that will familiarize yourself with Detroit's neighborhoods.

http://www.cityscapedetroit.org/Detr...hborhoods.html#

**esiderrr** · January-07-10, 07:27 AM

Welcome to our neighborhood, MCJMEX. The MorningSide Community Organization holds monthly meetings 2nd Tuesday of each month, 7pm, at Peace Lutheran Church on E. Warren at Balfour. No dues, and new members always welcome. We've been talking about starting a blog, maybe that's something you could help out with? We are also working with some larger nonprofits to attract public and private investment dollars--some of which may be focused on the blocks surrounding your new house. Please contact me privately and I can give you more details.

**MJCMEX** · January-07-10, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by esiderrr

Welcome to our neighborhood, MCJMEX. The MorningSide Community Organization holds monthly meetings 2nd Tuesday of each month, 7pm, at Peace Lutheran Church on E. Warren at Balfour. No dues, and new members always welcome. We've been talking about starting a blog, maybe that's something you could help out with? We are also working with some larger nonprofits to attract public and private investment dollars--some of which may be focused on the blocks surrounding your new house. Please contact me privately and I can give you more details.

Thanks.

I will contact you.

Route29 · January-07-10, 02:31 PM

Welcome to Detroit.
While I applaud your efforts, enthusiasm, and sincerely welcome you, I question your apparent lack of research on where you purchased this house. In my opinion, you're asking a lot of questions you should have known the answers to before you purchased the house.
I have a bid pending on a short sale in East English Village, which is just to the east of Morningside. I currently live elsewhere in the City of Detroit. Some parts of Morningside look pretty decent, a lot look really bad. As someone said before, it was, until very recently, a very nice neighborhood.
Now, I suppose unless the house were on Outer Drive, I wouldn't buy a house in Morningside. That's just me. I am aware that there are many nice areas of Morningside and the houses are really quite amazing. Best of luck to you.

**MJCMEX** · January-07-10, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Route29

Welcome to Detroit.
While I applaud your efforts, enthusiasm, and sincerely welcome you, I question your apparent lack of research on where you purchased this house. In my opinion, you're asking a lot of questions you should have known the answers to before you purchased the house.
I have a bid pending on a short sale in East English Village, which is just to the east of Morningside. I currently live elsewhere in the City of Detroit. Some parts of Morningside look pretty decent, a lot look really bad. As someone said before, it was, until very recently, a very nice neighborhood.
Now, I suppose unless the house were on Outer Drive, I wouldn't buy a house in Morningside. That's just me. I am aware that there are many nice areas of Morningside and the houses are really quite amazing. Best of luck to you.

Our area looks very decent. Judging by what others have said I think I found one of the better neighborhoods in Morning Side. [[Or better said: My real estate agent did his homework and found it for me.)

BTW I found this crime chart on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._by_crime_rate

It states that while murder per 100,000 people is high in Detroit, both St Louis and New Orleans are much higher and rape is much higher in my current location, Las Vegas, than in Detroit.

Is this chart credible?

Thanks.

**epiphany** · January-07-10, 10:14 PM

Yeah, I think that you are moving in a relatively safe area of Morningside. It definitely looks better than where I was living. I would still be careful until you are familiar with the area. It can look nice for a while and then fall apart very quickly. That's how it is over there and that's why I feel safer in another part of Detroit. But, I had to take the bus and walk everywhere and that sort of put me in a position to get harassed by people.

It's really cool that you sort of blindly bought a house over there that you are actually moving into. I think that area has some of my favorite houses in Detroit. I'd love to do the same if I could afford it. I hope you like it!