Visual Preference Survey, Texas Donut

**DetroitPlanner** · December-29-09, 09:50 AM

How agreeable would folks in the Detroit area be to the Texas Donut?

**Detroitnerd** · December-29-09, 09:55 AM

Bleecchh. Reminds me of those "fortress blocks" in Brush Park, where it's supposed to look like rowhouses but we all know that nobody walks on the street unless they're homeless.

**gazhekwe** · December-29-09, 12:06 PM

The middle is a parking structure? I like to park by my door.

**Detroitnerd** · December-29-09, 12:12 PM

Ah, but, Gaz. You see, that door in the FRONT of the building is just a joke. Who uses it? All the real coming and going is out the back, to the garage, where you drive in and out.

Wait a minute. I'm going to change my mind. With volatile oil prices, energy scarcity and lifestyle changes favoring foot and bike, this is the sort of car-centered development tailor-made for Detroit: Yesterday's Future ... Today!

**Bong-Man** · December-29-09, 12:31 PM

Is there a Little Caesar's Gazebo in the center ?

**Blueidone** · December-29-09, 01:51 PM

Actually, it seems like a pretty good idea...if you're building that type of housing anyway. I would think it would keep the vehicles more secure. No...I don't necessarily like the "closed" block look, but look at New Orleans....all their housing was built toward a center courtyard. I think this just might work.

**Detroitnerd** · December-29-09, 02:01 PM

Ah, yes. One entire fortress-like block with doors nobody uses out front mimics the Moorish influence and garden culture of New Orleans nicely. Not.

PQZ · December-29-09, 02:07 PM

I live in a Texas donut and love it. My front door opens right out to a stoop and then the sidewalk. My back door opens to an interior courtyard with a pool, garden and grill / picnic area. The parking deck is to the side of the interior, keeping parking off the street and forcing the units out to the sidewalk to create a really nice streetwall effect - the streetwall so many on this forum lament as being missing from Detroit.

My side of the block is all residential but across the street from me are a YMCA, my dry cleaner, a coffee shop, a bistro, a bar, a small party / convenience store a couple high end restaurants, a carry out Chinese joint - all on the first floor of another Texas Donut. Its far more urban and pedestrian friendly than anything in Detroit right now.

The Texas Donut a very efficient and effective way to park cars, create streetwall & provide private amenities for residents. Its a very good design solution when a development is limited by height restrictions and by granite that makes below grade parking cost prohibitive.

Not bad looking, considering the parking for a nearby 750,000 office complex is screened behind this development.

Good design finds solutions, it doesn't stamp its petualnt little feet and scream that we should ban the automobile.

**GOAT** · December-29-09, 02:07 PM

A fuck of a lot better than what exists today and will exist tomorrow. Some of you arm-chair architects are never satisfied.

Pedestrian friendly, architecturally pleasing, good use of the entire footprint. and a helluva lot better than a McMansion or those new garages with houses attached we see so much of today.

PQZ · December-29-09, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Blueidone

Actually, it seems like a pretty good idea...if you're building that type of housing anyway. I would think it would keep the vehicles more secure. No...I don't necessarily like the "closed" block look, but look at New Orleans....all their housing was built toward a center courtyard. I think this just might work.

It does. It is a variation on the develoment patterns that have dominated cities for centuries. It creates a vibrant street experience when done right. Imagine if the Ochestra Hall / DMC deck were completely wrapped and hidden from street view by eight more Ellingtons and you have the development I live in. Well, add gardens, pools and occupied retail, but you get my drift.

And FYI, it is employed all across America in thousnads of developments in the last 20 years. Its not new. The development I am in is at least ten years old. There are about a half dozen Texas Donuts in my general neighborhoods and 30 or more across Charlotte.

Cross post the knee jerk reactions on this thread to "Why I Left"

**GOAT** · December-29-09, 02:26 PM

PQZ, and another reason Detroit suffers. Instead of saying this or that WILL work the arm-chair architects tell us how they won't. But not to worry, the majority will leave for better cities anyway.

**Detroitnerd** · December-29-09, 02:45 PM

Oh, man. This is so awesome. This donut is really revitalizing the neighborhood around it.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r1r...r.&rtop=0~0~0~

**Detroitnerd** · December-29-09, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by PQZ

Good design finds solutions, it doesn't stamp its petualnt little feet and scream that we should ban the automobile.

Oh, yes. And good arguments can stand scrutiny, and don't need ad hominem attacks or straw men to help them out.

lilpup · December-29-09, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Oh, man. This is so awesome. This donut is really revitalizing the neighborhood around it.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r1r...r.&rtop=0~0~0~

That was my first thought, too. It's the RenCen at the home level.

**GOAT** · December-29-09, 03:20 PM

Better that than more blight around it Detroitnerd. But hey, when at the bottom of the cesspool no one can see the light for all the shit in their eyes. That is Detroit and the majority of the inhabitants. No matter what jgood there is most won't see it regardless. It is much easier to whine and piss and moan about their own plight instead of looking at what others cities are doing to make changes so they don't end up like Detroit.

We should all just build new houses on vacant lots and restore all the burned out ones because that strategy is working so well. Look at all of the developers lining up!

One of these "Texas Donuts" will not change Detroit but would you rather live next to that or would you rather live next door to more blight?

**GOAT** · December-29-09, 03:21 PM

Sorry but I don't see how this is the RenCen? Where is the giant berm out front blockng access? I see doors leading out onto the street with a nice yard in the back. Face it people, society lives in their backyards today and when not in their backyards they will live in the basement or garage of their home.

What do YOU people want?

**Detroitnerd** · December-29-09, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by GOAT

Better that than more blight around it, Detroitnerd. But hey, when at the bottom of the cesspool no one can see the light for all the shit in their eyes. That is Detroit and the majority of the inhabitants. No matter what good there is most won't see it regardless. It is much easier to whine and piss and moan about their own plight instead of looking at what others cities are doing to make changes so they don't end up like Detroit.

We should all just build new houses on vacant lots and restore all the burned out ones because that strategy is working so well. Look at all of the developers lining up!

One of these "Texas Donuts" will not change Detroit but would you rather live next to that or would you rather live next door to more blight?

Goat, it sounds like you need a hug or something. What's with all this anger?

**bailey** · December-29-09, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Oh, man. This is so awesome. This donut is really revitalizing the neighborhood around it.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=r1r56b82c320&scene=5646196&lvl=1&sty=b&rtp =adr.detroit~adr.&rtop=0~0~0~

Isn't that a senior/assisted living facility?...answered my own question on the google- "Presbyterian Villages of Michigan., Senior living community"

Detroit rises through assisted living facilities?

also, is it really a 'texas doughnut' anymore if it's done detroit style? By 'detroit style' I mean "Island within a sea of parking"?

**janesback** · December-29-09, 03:46 PM

PQZ, Is that complex the one off of Allen Parkway, or is it down town

I know theres a YWCA there off of Memorial, and that could be Washington St. as well........

thanks, wow, looks like condos are really being used as fill in the area just west of Downtown.........Jane

**Blueidone** · December-29-09, 03:50 PM

I'm sold, PQZ. You don't have to convince me. I should have worded by original response differently. It obviously works. Having never seen one [[that I know of anyway), I didn't want to say "I KNOW it will work"...so I said "I THINK". But I believe what you say and the pictures look great.

**Detroitnerd** · December-29-09, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Isn't that a senior/assisted living facility?

also, is it really a 'texas doughnut' anymore if it's done detroit style? By 'detroit style' I mean "Island within a sea of parking"?

Well, as an off-the-shelf idea, I suppose we're not talking about much more than how it looks and functions.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the donut is.

**jtf1972** · December-29-09, 03:56 PM

It's a good idea. I like row houses for many reasons including the energy savings that comes with not having every wall of a home being an exterior wall. Whether this works or fails has to do with more than one structure, as simply providing a ramp to a highway out the door does nothing. Retail needs to be planned in. There needs to be a reason to create foot traffic in a neighborhood.

I dislike the cookie-cutter aspect of the depicted units as well. It is possible to have the interior construction be planned to be similar and have a more diverse exterior construction.

This is one of my favorite blocks.

It's located in the Bronx on Morris Ave. I would love to see something similar in Detroit. [[The "Texas Donut" concept would help clear up the parking problem.) The closest I have seen is at the bend in Ewald Circle at Schoolcraft. [[I always loved that spot!)

**bailey** · December-29-09, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Well, as an off-the-shelf idea, I suppose we're not talking about much more than how it looks and functions.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the donut is.

So, basically you're just against it for no real reason other than it sorta looks like something you don't like...

**Detroitnerd** · December-29-09, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

So, basically you're just against it for no real reason other than it sorta looks like something you don't like...

Oh, Bailey. Everybody seems to want to straw-man this down. That usually means there's a good idea in there that makes somebody uncomfortable.

**bailey** · December-29-09, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Oh, Bailey. Everybody seems to want to straw-man this down. That usually means there's a good idea in there that makes somebody uncomfortable.

But you're the one that has been crapping all over the idea of this sort of development in detroit from your first post? The reason is apparently because you dont like how a granny stacker looks in Brush Park. If anyone is "strawman"ing anything down, it's you.