Plane crash on east side around 1959

**angiescott** · December-23-09, 02:42 PM

I lived on the 300 block of Ashland Ave. from 1950 to 1962. Around 1959 I witnessed a plane crash that wiped out most of the next block on Ashland. I think it was a military plane, but I cannot find any record of it. I have researched archived and internet plane crashes of every sort, but I cannot find any mention of it. Does anyone have info or remember this?

**jtf1972** · December-23-09, 03:10 PM

Being born in 1972 I have no recollection of it.

Have you tried going through the microfiche newspaper collections at the library?

**jcole** · December-23-09, 03:21 PM

This is probably what you're talking about
British RAF crash in Detroit, Michigan in the '50s.
The link is from the Professional Pilots Rumor Network.

**gnome** · December-23-09, 03:22 PM

Weclom Angiescott:

It was a British Vulcan bomber and fell from 30,000 ft and crashed at the end of Ashland st and Harbor Island.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A49097307

24 October, 1958. Vulcan XA908 experienced a complete electrical failure at 30,000 feet near Detroit Michigan USA during a goodwill trip. The aircraft was carrying the usual five crew and an additional engineer in the rear crew compartment. Due to a short circuit, the backup system also failed to work correctly and the control system locked up. The aircraft went into an uncontrolled 70-degree dive. The co-pilot ejected while the pilot stayed with the aircraft. All members of the crew died in the crash which created a 70 foot deep crater. The co-pilot's body was never found.

links from the old forum:
http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/91697/92278.html

From Hour Detroit and forum member Richard Bak
http://www.hourdetroit.com/Hour-Detr...=2&siarticle=1

**Whitehouse** · December-23-09, 03:41 PM

Just one month before that event, this happened to another Vulcan.

Here's the gravesite of the perished Britsh airmen.

From another Detroit forum I picked up this quote:

I can think of two other plane crashes. One was a DC-3 that crashed on the Eastside taking out several houses. Another was a Budd Conestoga that crashed in a field. Both crashes were in the late 1940's.

This is a discussion I found deep buried in the internet archives.

Truly a magnificent plane to see. One of them is being kept in the air by enthousiasts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Vulcan_XH558

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Vulcan

**MikeM** · December-23-09, 03:46 PM

This thread has some photos:

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1202349971

It's buried in the thread called "Paradise Lost," about the trailer park at the end of Alter Road. The thread is poorly organized, with pages and sub-pages out of order. If you explore each link you'll eventually get the whole story.

**EastsideAl** · December-23-09, 03:51 PM

The crash blew in a couple of back windows on my grandma's house on Chalmers.

**EastsideQT** · December-23-09, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by angiescott

I lived on the 300 block of Ashland Ave. from 1950 to 1962. Around 1959 I witnessed a plane crash that wiped out most of the next block on Ashland. I think it was a military plane, but I cannot find any record of it. I have researched archived and internet plane crashes of every sort, but I cannot find any mention of it. Does anyone have info or remember this?

OMG...Yes I remember it well...my family lived on Conner almost at the River. it crashed on Ashland almost at the end of the block...I think parts of Alter Rd. got messed up too...I was about 10 when it happed so it was either 1958 or 1959.

**birwood** · December-24-09, 12:16 PM

Back shortly after WW II, a Navy F4U Corsair and a F6F Wildcat collided in mid-air over the lower eastside. If you go to the GROSSE ILE NAS web-site you'll find find the story and photos from the site

**birwood** · December-25-09, 07:14 PM

I found details of the mid-air incident that happened on June 23, 1948, at 2881 Charlevoix between a Corsair and Hellcat on the NAS Grosse Ile web page,
. Go to www.NASGI.org scroll down to Crash & Rescue index page and go to item 45. It shows 3 good photos of the accident

**Suzanne Wass** · January-15-10, 02:11 PM

I lived on Manistique in the 1200 block in 1959 when this crash occurred I was nine at the time. I remember my father taking me to the site. I still can remember it, however there has never been any stories that I can now read. My family and I spent many of hours at the parks at the end of Alter st.

**SteadySky** · January-16-10, 10:14 PM

From a quick little online search I came across the following concerning the characteristics of the Vulcan control systems:

"The Vulcan used entirely powered control surfaces; this combined with the relatively small space for the flight crew meant that a fighter-like stick could be used instead of a control wheel, with the added benefit that ejection could be quicker in an emergency. Power was 110 volts DC electrical supplied from generators on each engine. Backup was from a set of batteries in series to supply the voltage if generators failed. These had little capacity in event of a power loss, so the system was revised for the Mark 2 to use a Ram Air Turbine [[RAT) that would operate at higher altitude and an Airborne Auxiliary Power Unit [[AAPU) which could be started once the aircraft had reached a lower altitude of 30,000 ft [[9,100 m) or less."

Sounds like to me this was a Mark I class Vulcan and when the power system went down at high altitude, the secondary system was unable to function. Looks like the later variants of the Vulcan were better equipped.

Did anybody die on the ground?

**angiescott** · August-26-10, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideQT

OMG...Yes I remember it well...my family lived on Conner almost at the River. it crashed on Ashland almost at the end of the block...I think parts of Alter Rd. got messed up too...I was about 10 when it happed so it was either 1958 or 1959.

I lived at 316 Ashland. I was Angie Smallwood back then and went to Guyton. Did you know me? My best friend was Christine Smith. She lived on Manistique.

**angiescott** · August-26-10, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by SteadySky

From a quick little online search I came across the following concerning the characteristics of the Vulcan control systems:

"The Vulcan used entirely powered control surfaces; this combined with the relatively small space for the flight crew meant that a fighter-like stick could be used instead of a control wheel, with the added benefit that ejection could be quicker in an emergency. Power was 110 volts DC electrical supplied from generators on each engine. Backup was from a set of batteries in series to supply the voltage if generators failed. These had little capacity in event of a power loss, so the system was revised for the Mark 2 to use a Ram Air Turbine [[RAT) that would operate at higher altitude and an Airborne Auxiliary Power Unit [[AAPU) which could be started once the aircraft had reached a lower altitude of 30,000 ft [[9,100 m) or less."

Sounds like to me this was a Mark I class Vulcan and when the power system went down at high altitude, the secondary system was unable to function. Looks like the later variants of the Vulcan were better equipped.

Did anybody die on the ground?

No one died on the ground. My father, Bert Smallwood, was the first one to get to the site. He pulled two people out of their homes before the fire department got there. One lady and her dog were injured, but that was it. It was a virtual miracle that no one was killed.

**5thSFGP** · August-27-10, 08:52 AM

I remember it well, it was the first real tragedy that I saw. Looking across the canel from Alter Road you could see what was left of the aircraft - not much, small pieces in a burnt out big hole, as well as the private residences that were struck by the aircraft. I am left with the sense that there must have been a pretty large fire since I don't think the A/C had crash a worthy fuel system. As I recall, I picked up a small piece of the wreckage - perhaps 1" X 1", on the side of the road. We were about as close as you could get to the site - never have forgot it.

**MrJones** · August-28-10, 10:46 AM

The newspaper story said that they dug down 70 feet looking for the cockpit... 70 feet?
How could they dig a 70 foot deep hole next to a canal in the space of one house lot?

**Whitehouse** · August-28-10, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by MrJones

The newspaper story said that they dug down 70 feet looking for the cockpit... 70 feet?
How could they dig a 70 foot deep hole next to a canal in the space of one house lot?

Not without taking some precautions, like making coffer with barriers or bringing in massive pumps to empty the hole. 70 feet is quite a lot. It also depends on the type of soil that's found there. You can dig easier in clay than sand. A sand hole will collapse much faster than clay.

**Zimm** · August-28-10, 12:10 PM

at the time of the crash, my mom's family [[the Wilsons) lived on Ashland on the 1st block west of Jefferson and my dad's grandparents [[the Zimmermans) lived on Alter on the first block west of Jefferson, on the Detroit side.

no currently living member my family was home at the time of the crash, but my grandparents said that the house next to theirs on Ashland had their basement floor split all the way through, from one end to the other as a result of the impact.

**Rochelle St.** · August-29-10, 06:34 PM

The co-pilot ejected, but was never found?
Was this close to the river?
Sounds like he landed in there.

**FlyOnTheWall** · August-20-14, 02:49 PM

This is a very interesting thread and brings back memories for me as I was part of the clean-up crew from Selfridge.

My job ended up mucking in what was dug up and putting every little piece of the plane aside. I think the largest pieces were the engines though I did find a couple of parts of a human.

Some observations... It was clay soil. I am not sure how deep the hole was but I sure tried to stay as far away as I could and still do my job. I was amazed on how few homes were destroyed, only two or three if I remember correctly. Some damage to other homes and boats in the canal.

**FormerDetroiter** · August-20-14, 04:24 PM

I lived in that neighborhood when that happened.

**jackie5275** · August-21-14, 01:30 PM

From looking a Google maps, it seems that the plane crash took out 3 houses on 200 block of Ashland. Is that correct? Also, can it be assumed that those lots were never rebuilt upon? Forgive me for not knowing all this. It happened before my time, and I'm a west sider.

**Honky Tonk** · August-21-14, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

From looking a Google maps, it seems that the plane crash took out 3 houses on 200 block of Ashland. Is that correct? Also, can it be assumed that those lots were never rebuilt upon? Forgive me for not knowing all this. It happened before my time, and I'm a west sider.

And you can still see the damage there today.

Attachment 24220

**Inkadinkado** · August-21-14, 07:12 PM

I don't recall when it was, but the Detroit News had a follow-up story years after the fact which is how I learned about this disaster. At the time some of the people who were there in '58 still lived in the neighborhood and they reported that from time to time bits of the plane would be turned up by gardeners. I remember thinking that those people had just a taste of what so many in Europe have experienced: detritus from the wars turning up when fields are plowed, roads repaired, etc.

**FlyOnTheWall** · August-21-14, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Inkadinkado

I don't recall when it was, but the Detroit News had a follow-up story years after the fact which is how I learned about this disaster. At the time some of the people who were there in '58 still lived in the neighborhood and they reported that from time to time bits of the plane would be turned up by gardeners. I remember thinking that those people had just a taste of what so many in Europe have experienced: detritus from the wars turning up when fields are plowed, roads repaired, etc.

I'm sure that would happen there as that Vulcan bomber creamed in at about a 70 degree angle and we sure didn't find many big pieces. It was a sloppy mess during the clean-up. At times I was knee deep in the sloppy mud trying to find pieces. I'm sure at least 50% of that aircraft is still there in the ground.