Bush Crime Family Improperly Surveilled Americans

[Lorax]

Is this any big surprise to anyone?

Seems as though the expanded Imperial presidential powers the Rethuglican congress allowed Bush and Cheney to achieve during the first years of the administration, leading to the Patriot Act and formation of the dept. of "Homeland Security" shows they were engaged in illegal surveillance of Americans, and continually sent reports to the white house on assembly issues, as well as political spying, which, as I predicted at the time was the entire reason for ramming through measures that would facilitate such illegal activities, since the nature of Rethuglicans is to lobby through fear and use any disaster to consolidate control over the people.

From today's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/17/us...html?th&emc=th

Batts in another thread continues to accuse me of " baseless allegations" even when presented with the evidence of crimes committed.

[Sstashmoo]

Yes and why is the Obama administration continuing these policies? Why have they not abolished the patriot act? Why have they not restored habeus corpus? You wingers need to open your eyes and realize our it isn't simply a wing of government anymore. It is a thrust within our government.

[johnsmith]

Yes and why is the Obama administration continuing these policies? Why have they not abolished the patriot act? Why have they not restored habeus corpus? You wingers need to open your eyes and realize our it isn't simply a wing of government anymore. It is a thrust within our government.

Yes, a thrust right in the you know where! GREAT questions of why there isn't any "change" as well.

[Ray1936]

Uncle is more than welcome to read my emails or listen on my phone. Since I don't plan on harming anyone or anything, I don't suppose it's a problem. On the other hand, if someone is planning on blowing up my home community, I certainly hope Uncle is on to it.

[Goose]

and with all this mounting evidence why hasn't the majority Democrat controlled federal government done anything to pursue charges???

why??

1. the charges are false

or

2. the democrats are also wound up in this matter


my guess is #2

[Jimaz]

Uncle is more than welcome to read my emails or listen on my phone. Since I don't plan on harming anyone or anything, I don't suppose it's a problem. On the other hand, if someone is planning on blowing up my home community, I certainly hope Uncle is on to it.

Ray, that may be okay with you up until the time when the government begins manufacturing similar but false evidence against you for purely political persecution. But I'm sure you understand that reasoning already.

There are good reasons for the rights we once enjoyed in this country.

[johnsmith]

Ray, that may be okay with you up until the time when the government begins manufacturing similar but false evidence against you for purely political persecution. But I'm sure you understand that reasoning already.

There are good reasons for the rights we once enjoyed in this country.

Yes, the 4th Amendment exists for a very good reason. No warrant means they have no good reason to search anything. No law passed can usurp that, unless the 4th Amendment itself gets repealed.

[rb336]

Yes, a thrust right in the you know where! GREAT questions of why there isn't any "change" as well.

because, with few exceptions, the democrats are not liberals. they are moderate corporatist-conservatives

[johnsmith]

because, with few exceptions, the democrats are not liberals. they are moderate corporatist-conservatives

I agree with the corporatist part. And that goes for both D's and R's.

[MCP-001]

Oh, c'mon!

Do you really expect the false prophet to abolish the US PATRIOT Act?

He lied about closing Gitmo.

He lied about raising taxes on Americans [[under $250,000).

He lied about the health care debate being open and broadcast on C-SPAN.

Those of you who voted for him should man up and acknowledge that you've been punk'd!

[ccbatson]

The Patriot act should be renewed at intervals so long as a credible islamic terrorist threat confronts and threatens our security...but not a moment longer.

[rb336]

"when tyranny comes to this country, it will come in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy"

what a more perfect enemy than some nebulous bunch of thugs someone decided to re-define as a foreign enemy.

[ccbatson]

Not so nebulous when they flew into the twin towers, shot at us in Iraq and now Afghanistan....for crying out loud, could the libs make a weaker argument?

[Ray1936]

Ray, that may be okay with you up until the time when the government begins manufacturing similar but false evidence against you for purely political persecution. But I'm sure you understand that reasoning already.

Jim, I don't usually differ with you, but I'm much more concerned about someone blowing up my town than the million to one possibility of someone manufacturing false evidence against me. That's a reach.

[ccbatson]

Not to mention that it has yet to happen even once.

[Lorax]

What's being missed in this discussion is that you don't under any circumstances allow government to take away rights. Not even in circumstances like 9-11.

9-11 was an intelligence failure on the part of the Bush Administration, it was allowed to happen, as the evidence points out.

The Patriot Act was designed to remove rights for all Americans- many of which were rendered to foreign countries and tortured under the guise of "terrorism."

This was purely a political act designed to consolidate power at the executive level. Very dangerous stuff. People who insist they don't have a problem with their phones and computers being hacked into by the feds without warrants are deluding themselves if they think this will have a good outcome.

This is precisely what many of the 22 million "missing" now found emails were about.

The Obama Administration naturally won't repeal any of these measures, unless they allow them to expire, which I don't think will happen either.

So where was the outrage from Republicans when they passed this with congressional control? Didn't they realize that when a Democrat gets in office that these powers would transfer to them?

They didn't fear this for one very good reason- there is no material difference in governing philosophy between the two parties. Agreements are made during these peaceful transfers of power, such as not going after the illegal activities of the previous administration, lackluster investigations into crimes, and a complicity that transcends party affiliation.

Obama has governed like a true right of center conservative, as I predicted he would a year ago. The MIC really runs the show, and as long as presidents and parties tow the line and continue to crank the smoke & mirrors machine, then all is well as far as they're concerned.

[jiminnm]

So Lorax, as a self-proclaimed believer that we are a nation of laws, have you taken action to have the Patroit Act declared unconstitutional?

[Lorax]

Have you? Ask yourself the question before you ask someone else.

Let's see..... have you:

Contacted your elected representatives throughout the process of the bill coming to a vote? Expressing your deep concern that removing rights is a slippery slope to fascism?

Have you held fundraisers for your local and state politicians who opposed this measure, and were successful in turning red into blue?

Well, guess what- I have.

Now, what have you done, Jiminy Glick.

[ccbatson]

It is not unconstitutional so long as it is structured as a temporary measure...remember the draft? Also unconstitutional if permanently employed.

[johnsmith]

It is not unconstitutional so long as it is structured as a temporary measure...remember the draft? Also unconstitutional if permanently employed.

But using that logic, the gov't could do anything, as long as it's temporary.

[rb336]

It is not unconstitutional so long as it is structured as a temporary measure...remember the draft? Also unconstitutional if permanently employed.

the draft is irrelevent. it has never been ruled unconstitutional except for it being temporary.

Not so nebulous when they flew into the twin towers, shot at us in Iraq and now Afghanistan....for crying out loud, could the libs make a weaker argument?

All the information required to STOP that from happening was available prior to the patriot act, and only the immense stupidity of the Bushies allowed it to happen.

Not to mention that it has yet to happen even once.

it has happened many times, and i'm sure more than just those that get mentioned in the media

[ccbatson]

Care to give us an example of one such instance Rb?

[Stosh]

Care to give us an example of one such instance Rb?

I suppose when you start backing up your BS with verifiable facts.

[rb336]

Care to give us an example of one such instance Rb?

sure --

remember all those folks illegally detained on trumped-up charges prior to the Republican Nastiness Convention in NYC?

[ccbatson]

No...do you? What happened? What were the charges? Were there any law suits that followed? What was the outcome?