Proof is closing

**BShea** · December-12-09, 12:02 PM

Sad news. My fav bar downtown. They made a mean Long Island.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/skid

pudsy · December-12-09, 01:23 PM

If a bar a short distance from two major sports venues can't keeps its doors open in detroit then the chances of a bw3 coming to downtown are slim to none!!!!

**Diehard** · December-12-09, 01:53 PM

I got the impression that it opened just in time for the '06 Super Bowl, and would've been gone the week after if it hadn't been for thirsty sports fans and people living nearby.
Anyone want to bet there's something shady going on?

**Gsgeorge** · December-12-09, 02:09 PM

Anyone want to bet that this kind of nightclub is just not what Detroit wants or needs? I am pretty sure people would rather frequent a more welcoming establishment like Bookies, D'Mongos, even Nick's Gaslight over a shady 'exclusive' nightclub with pounding music, $10 drinks, and stainless steel all over the place...

**artds** · December-12-09, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by pudsy

If a bar a short distance from two major sports venues can't keeps its doors open in detroit then the chances of a bw3 coming to downtown are slim to none!!!!

To be fair, BW3's is a different animal. It's more akin to Hockeytown Cafe [[which has thrived) than Proof.

But I agree that if a corner bar can't even survive in that prime location, things are worse than many thought.

That said, if the landlord wasn't willing to negotiate a lower rental rate for Proof, then they must expect that they will be able to lease the space to someone else in the near future. Time will tell if they're right.

**Gsgeorge** · December-12-09, 02:20 PM

I would have to disagree, artds. I think that corner is a prime location for an establishment, if it is the right one. I don't think sports fans are any more enthused about spending $12 on a martini than the next average Joe or downtown resident. If a sensible, smart, comfortable and affordable business located there, they would thrive. Even a tried-and-true chain like BW3 would fare well. Proof was too clean, too aseptic, too exclusive, too stuck-up to thrive anywhere except perhaps Birmingham.

**Mackinaw** · December-12-09, 04:05 PM

Indeed, they probably were not getting enough of the type of business they 'require,' as Gsg intimates. Even assuming a lot of Tigers/Lions fans liked that sort of scene, I doubt that they'd want to [[or even would be allowed to) go in there with their Magglio jersey on.

But as Artds also properly points out, there may have been complicating issues. Perhaps they had good business, just not enough to pay escalating rent [[or perhaps sensitive to the fact that the Fyfe building is also residential [[right?), the landlord is going to seek a user that isn't a loud club). Indeed, a prime corner comes with its burdens. Let's hope the rent isn't so high as to cause a lengthy vacancy on a beautiful corner. It would be nice to see retail return to that corner, I must say.

**EastsideQT** · December-12-09, 04:23 PM

I went there once for a going away party for my boss...it was so so...it lacked atmosphere....the decor was cold and unimaginative...however it was on a Monday and all the people there were there for the party...so I'm not sure how it is on a regular night because I didn't go back.

**artds** · December-12-09, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

I would have to disagree, artds. I think that corner is a prime location for an establishment, if it is the right one. I don't think sports fans are any more enthused about spending $12 on a martini than the next average Joe or downtown resident. If a sensible, smart, comfortable and affordable business located there, they would thrive. Even a tried-and-true chain like BW3 would fare well. Proof was too clean, too aseptic, too exclusive, too stuck-up to thrive anywhere except perhaps Birmingham.

Well, ok, but I'm not sure exactly how you disagree with me.

We both stated that the corner is a prime location and that a BW3's would fare much better than an establishment like Proof.

andybsg · December-12-09, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

Proof was too clean, too aseptic, too exclusive, too stuck-up to thrive anywhere except perhaps Birmingham.

Sounds like someone got turned away at the door. Were you wearing a Magglio jersey?

**rjlj** · December-12-09, 06:14 PM

Sad to see Proof close. They had a great monday happy hour, half off martini's and apps and the beer prices were reasonable. The only thing I didn't like about it was the pigeon crap on the awning and the wall behind the bar could have looked better. No matter what you thought of the place, any bussiness closing up shop downtown is not good in my opinion.

**Waymooreland** · December-12-09, 07:32 PM

This one really blows my mind, to be honest. I have been to Proof or peeked through the windows many times over the years and it always seemed to have business, regardless of the day of the week or hours. Also, it was always welcoming and served a diverse clientele -- on game days you could see a mix of a nightclub-type crowd as well as sports fans side-by-side. I really liked that about the place. It certainly never appeared like a place that was struggling anytime I had been there. I'm just puzzled. I've been to plenty of places downtown on dead nights and wondered if they were gonna make it. This was never one of those places. I have to wonder if their business plan was just bad. I mean, seriously, for example: how does a place like Nick's Gaslight stay open all these years, but Proof folds up after four? I wouldn't be surprised if the place gets snatched up quickly and becomes a more casual bar with lower overhead that will do well there.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I hear they're having a big farewell party next Friday, the 18th, so I guess let's send it off with a bang!

DetroitDad · December-12-09, 09:54 PM

Sports Fans!? It seems that bars in worse locations, with better programming towards the sport fan clientele, are surviving.

It seems more like Grand Circus Park has changed, and Downtown is at least slightly less hip than it was leading up to, and directly after the Super Bowl.

I think it was more geared to the crowd that visited Bleu, the Broderick parties, and club nights at the State. All those places have since closed or gone in a different direction, so it's not really a surprise that this place is closing.

**janb** · December-12-09, 10:53 PM

I have read posts on this forum for a long time but have never posted myself until now. I have to say how amazing it is that most of the people on here claim to love Detroit and hope for things to get better, yet as soon as a place like Proof closes, most of you are quick to pick it apart and seem to love to make assumptions as to why it failed. Clearly, and I mean very clearly, most of you have never even set foot in the place or you would not be spewing such crap.

I happened to have loved Proof and came to know and love the guys that ran the place. Let me tell you what I know. There was nothing "shady" going on and it certainly wasn't "exclusive". They only had DJs on the weekends and never charged a cover or had a dress code. The staff, themselves, often wore Tiger's t-shirts, etc. They had a very diverse crowd in many ways, certainly never an "exclusive" one. The owners sunk their hearts and souls into that bar; at least one of them was there everyday, all day. They, were, in fact, the bartenders and they were damn good bartenders at that. They took great care to get to know their customers and had lots of local regulars as a result. The drinks were the same price as they are pretty much anywhere. Yes, they had some $10 martinis, but they were made to perfection with top shelf ingredients. Those same martinis were also 1/2 off 2-3 times a week.

The only people that know exactly why Proof is closing are the owners and I'm sure they are feeling pretty disappointed that something they sunk as much time, money and energy into has failed. So why make it worse by bad-mouthing the place and making such ridiculous assumptions about it? It's just sad, really.

**gnome** · December-12-09, 11:13 PM

welcome janb, good post. Well written and reasoned. I look forward to your insights into why the place closed. To me it is a mystery. They seemed to have a steady crowd and while I wasn't much of a patron, I could see the place appealed to a lot of folks.

Janb, what are your thoughts? A steady crowd, an on-site management team, reasonable prices ... all that seems to be a recipe for success, ... so why the failure? I mean what are the lessons for others? Did they sink too much in the renovation? Were they getting squished by the landlord? Did the City harrass them?

There has to be a reason, and you seemingly are the only person with any reason here.

andybsg · December-12-09, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by janb

I have read posts on this forum for a long time but have never posted myself until now. I have to say how amazing it is that most of the people on here claim to love Detroit and hope for things to get better, yet as soon as a place like Proof closes, most of you are quick to pick it apart and seem to love to make assumptions as to why it failed. Clearly, and I mean very clearly, most of you have never even set foot in the place or you would not be spewing such crap.

I happened to have loved Proof and came to know and love the guys that ran the place. Let me tell you what I know. There was nothing "shady" going on and it certainly wasn't "exclusive". They only had DJs on the weekends and never charged a cover or had a dress code. The staff, themselves, often wore Tiger's t-shirts, etc. They had a very diverse crowd in many ways, certainly never an "exclusive" one. The owners sunk their hearts and souls into that bar; at least one of them was there everyday, all day. They, were, in fact, the bartenders and they were damn good bartenders at that. They took great care to get to know their customers and had lots of local regulars as a result. The drinks were the same price as they are pretty much anywhere. Yes, they had some $10 martinis, but they were made to perfection with top shelf ingredients. Those same martinis were also 1/2 off 2-3 times a week.

The only people that know exactly why Proof is closing are the owners and I'm sure they are feeling pretty disappointed that something they sunk as much time, money and energy into has failed. So why make it worse by bad-mouthing the place and making such ridiculous assumptions about it? It's just sad, really.

Cross post to SOPDJ

DetroitDad · December-12-09, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by janb

I have read posts on this forum for a long time but have never posted myself until now. I have to say how amazing it is that most of the people on here claim to love Detroit and hope for things to get better, yet as soon as a place like Proof closes, most of you are quick to pick it apart and seem to love to make assumptions as to why it failed. Clearly, and I mean very clearly, most of you have never even set foot in the place or you would not be spewing such crap.

I happened to have loved Proof and came to know and love the guys that ran the place. Let me tell you what I know. There was nothing "shady" going on and it certainly wasn't "exclusive". They only had DJs on the weekends and never charged a cover or had a dress code. The staff, themselves, often wore Tiger's t-shirts, etc. They had a very diverse crowd in many ways, certainly never an "exclusive" one. The owners sunk their hearts and souls into that bar; at least one of them was there everyday, all day. They, were, in fact, the bartenders and they were damn good bartenders at that. They took great care to get to know their customers and had lots of local regulars as a result. The drinks were the same price as they are pretty much anywhere. Yes, they had some $10 martinis, but they were made to perfection with top shelf ingredients. Those same martinis were also 1/2 off 2-3 times a week.

The only people that know exactly why Proof is closing are the owners and I'm sure they are feeling pretty disappointed that something they sunk as much time, money and energy into has failed. So why make it worse by bad-mouthing the place and making such ridiculous assumptions about it? It's just sad, really.

I did not go to Proof much, mostly because many of my friends thought it was too high end. It didn't matter how it actually was, it gave off that vibe. It appears by the post here that this wasn't just my circles that assumed this.

I did apply for temporary or bar tending jobs at Proof when I was unemployed just this past Spring. The owners were very nice, and hinted that business wasn't doing so well, and that they were suffering from a mix of problems, the economy being one of them. I imagine it was a shrinking of their customer base based on competition and anchors closing, but yeah, I am just guessing.

Others have voiced similar disapproval of how we pick-apart our city's failures. I personally have been accused of being behind a business closing [[not true, but I was accused). Generally, and I can only speak with the assumption that others are on a similar page as me, we pick things apart because we aspire to be these people and are attempting to figure out and learn from their mistakes. When you dream to open your own business, like Proof, you look everywhere for inspiration and every place you go includes analyzing what is done right and what is done wrong. This is not a insult to the owners of any business, in fact, there failure may end up being other's education and success, proving that their tragedy is not in vein.

That is compared to other Detroit blogs and message boards that only talk about these things for their own humor and amusement, with no positive outcome.

DetroitYES is a little more progressive than that.

**chitaku** · December-13-09, 02:42 AM

went to proof tonight, everyone was pretty sad about the closing, the owners are the nicest guys and it really broke my heart to see them so bummed. Downtown is dying and that's all there is to it.

**Diehard** · December-13-09, 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by janb

I have read posts on this forum for a long time but have never posted myself until now. I have to say how amazing it is that most of the people on here claim to love Detroit and hope for things to get better, yet as soon as a place like Proof closes, most of you are quick to pick it apart and seem to love to make assumptions as to why it failed. Clearly, and I mean very clearly, most of you have never even set foot in the place or you would not be spewing such crap.

I happened to have loved Proof and came to know and love the guys that ran the place. Let me tell you what I know. There was nothing "shady" going on and it certainly wasn't "exclusive". They only had DJs on the weekends and never charged a cover or had a dress code. The staff, themselves, often wore Tiger's t-shirts, etc. They had a very diverse crowd in many ways, certainly never an "exclusive" one. The owners sunk their hearts and souls into that bar; at least one of them was there everyday, all day. They, were, in fact, the bartenders and they were damn good bartenders at that. They took great care to get to know their customers and had lots of local regulars as a result. The drinks were the same price as they are pretty much anywhere. Yes, they had some $10 martinis, but they were made to perfection with top shelf ingredients. Those same martinis were also 1/2 off 2-3 times a week.

The only people that know exactly why Proof is closing are the owners and I'm sure they are feeling pretty disappointed that something they sunk as much time, money and energy into has failed. So why make it worse by bad-mouthing the place and making such ridiculous assumptions about it? It's just sad, really.

When I said "shady" earlier, I wasn't necessarily referring to Proof's management. Lord knows there's a lot of shady stuff going on when you figure in the politics of downtown.
That said, I hope things work out.

**EastsideQT** · December-13-09, 08:34 AM

I don't think I was picking Proof apart..it just wasn't my scene...I prefer neighborhood bars where there is more activity [[dancing, karaoke, pool, the game, darts, video games), etc. etc. As I have said before I rarely go outside of the city limits for entertainment and shopping. I hope the guys who owned Proof can regroup and bounce back from this.

**Gsgeorge** · December-13-09, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideQT

I don't think I was picking Proof apart..it just wasn't my scene...I prefer neighborhood bars where there is more activity [[dancing, pool, the game, darts, video games), etc. etc. As I have said before I rarely go outside of the city limits for entertainment and shopping. I hope the guys who owned Proof can regroup and bounce back from this.

Ditto. I hate to see a bar or business close up. But I also think we have to be realistic, and not sob our eyes out and figure out why this happened. I honestly don't think "downtown is dying" as one poster put it after witnessing the sad wake-and-funeral atmosphere at Proof last night. I think it's because this place was flat-out not that welcoming. It just doesn't fit the laid-back crowd that lives or works in Detroit and is on a tight budget. It served occasional [[read: wealthier) visitors, and maybe a handful of locals and lost sports fans.

pudsy · December-13-09, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

I would have to disagree, artds. I think that corner is a prime location for an establishment, if it is the right one. I don't think sports fans are any more enthused about spending $12 on a martini than the next average Joe or downtown resident. If a sensible, smart, comfortable and affordable business located there, they would thrive. Even a tried-and-true chain like BW3 would fare well. Proof was too clean, too aseptic, too exclusive, too stuck-up to thrive anywhere except perhaps Birmingham.

chelli's is the exact bar you describe and yet even they have to not open on certain weekdays/weeknights/weekends

there is no way a BW3's can survive down there--they have to have revenue 7 days a week not 3 or 4

DetroitDad · December-13-09, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by pudsy

chelli's is the exact bar you describe and yet even they have to not open on certain weekdays/weeknights/weekends

there is no way a BW3's can survive down there--they have to have revenue 7 days a week not 3 or 4

Buffalo Wild Wings... maybe not, but now Hooters on the other hand....

**1KielsonDrive** · December-14-09, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Waymooreland

I mean, seriously, for example: how does a place like Nick's Gaslight stay open all these years, but Proof folds up after four?

I'll tell you. Savas has owned Nick's for years. His father [[or father-in-law) was Nick Leandes. Nick was given the Gaslight by the City of Detroit, along with a bunch of cash, in exchange to vacate his restaurant, Leande's, at Michigan and Cass, so the People Mover could be built. Nick was a legendary luncheon restauranteur. He also possessed a great personality and business acumen. When he passed, he left the Gaslight to Savas and his wife. It was paid for many years ago, in fact, at the outset. Savas doesn't have to put too many people in the seats to pay his nut.