Statues coming home to Wayne County Bld

**mauser** · December-11-09, 07:42 PM

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091...439/1409/METRO

On Saturday, the statues will be taken from the Detroit warehouse back to 600 Randolph St., according to David Cieszkowski, founder and president of Chezcorp. Inc., one of the firms involved in the restoration.

And on Sunday morning, the statues will be hoisted back atop the building where they'd been ensconced for close to a century.

**DetroitZack** · December-11-09, 07:54 PM

Awesome! Back where it belongs.

Retroit · December-11-09, 08:21 PM

Does anyone know why the county sold the building? It seems stupid to me to sell a building you already own just to lease it afterward.

The most I could find is:

In 1984, the County, through the EDC, entered into an agreement for the sale and leaseback of the Wayne County Building with the Old Wayne County Building Limited Partnership. The terms of the capital lease [[Note 11) provide for the refurbishment and restoration of the building in return for a note from the Partnership for $5.3 million, at 9% per annum, due and payable in 2028. The current value of the note is $29,097,733. The note is a non-recourse obligation of the Partnership that is secured by the Wayne County building. The note requires minimum semi-annual payments of $500,000.

[[source: http://www.waynecounty.com/mygovt/mb...-2006-CAFR.pdf page II-72)

I don't understand what all that means.

Lorax · December-11-09, 08:24 PM

Since sculpture is my first love in the decorative arts, I consider it a banner day for the WCC.

Thrilled doesn't even begin to describe it.

This building is without doubt the most important standing example of Beaux Arts civic architecture in America and Detroit should be proud to have it whole again.

Now lets get the thing leased or returned to the county for it's original purpose. Or find an adaptive reuse for the old girl.

**Ray1936** · December-11-09, 08:29 PM

When it was the Traffic and Ordinance Division of Recorder's Court back in he sixties, I probably spent a month and a half of my career sitting in the police officers' waiting room, waiting for cases to be called.

Playing euchre, of course. Pick it up, I'm going alone.

**mauser** · December-11-09, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

This building is without doubt the most important standing example of Beaux Arts civic architecture in America ....

And MCS is the most terrifying standing example.

**bigtreble** · December-11-09, 09:12 PM

2005 photo of Old Wayne County Building with statues:
http://www.detroityes.com/news/070705/601pics/101.htm

MichMatters · December-11-09, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

Does anyone know why the county sold the building? It seems stupid to me to sell a building you already own just to lease it afterward.

The most I could find is:

[[source: http://www.waynecounty.com/mygovt/mb...-2006-CAFR.pdf page II-72)

I don't understand what all that means.

Companies and organizations [[with low-to-no growth) often sell off the property they are in. It defrays the direct costs of maintenance [[particularly costly maintenance of an old building) and such to the new owner. I think in the case of the WCB, they sold it off because they didn't have the money to renovate it, but the private partnership did.

As for the news, it's actually rather bittersweet or important enough to elicit a "meh" from me. It's just a little bit more than ironic [[and local media noted this) that these priceless statues are coming back to sit on what will be a virtually empty building. It'd seem to me they'd be better of in storage until a new tenant is found, lest they suffer a repeat bout of neglect, and this time while the building is empty, no less.

Retroit · December-11-09, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by MichMatters

Companies and organizations [[with low-to-no growth) often sell off the property they are in. It defers the direct costs of costly maintenance [[particularly on an old building) and such to the new owner.

So they think that the new owner is going to do all this costly maintenance free of charge? Isn't it going to be handed down to the tenant?

I could see selling it if you are planning to move out immediately due to the high cost of maintenance. But if you are going to stay for another 25 years, where would you think the money for maintenance is going to come from if not the rent?

Or am I just too dumb to be a politician?

**Whitehouse** · December-11-09, 09:47 PM

Be sure to take some pictures beforehand! It will be a looooooong time before you can see those statues face to face!

MichMatters · December-11-09, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

So they think that the new owner is going to do all this costly maintenance free of charge? Isn't it going to be handed down to the tenant?

I could see selling it if you are planning to move out immediately due to the high cost of maintenance. But if you are going to stay for another 25 years, where would you think the money for maintenance is going to come from if not the rent?

Or am I just too dumb to be a politician?

Yeah, it's usually sought as a short-term/immediate solution to deteriorating conditions. Still, the even in a long-term this may be preferable for an organization looking to spread out costs, even if you end up ultimately paying more in the end, instead of having to come up instantly with a few dozen million dollars for an immediate renovation.

You're really essentially asking why any government would ever rent anything, at all, and there are legitimate advantages to renting.

**mauser** · December-13-09, 06:56 AM

Here are photos of the statues arriving and being unloaded and assembled.

http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=3653

**Whitehouse** · December-13-09, 10:49 AM

Great pictures!!! Though I wonder what the restoration was. Seems a lot of rust visible to me but hey, I'm not a restorer. Maybe this is fresh copper that will need to weather like the rest of the statues. I worry though about those gaps on the back of the chariots.

Must be painful to have a rod like that stuck up your a#se

"HELP!!!!"

**mauser** · December-13-09, 10:54 AM

lol - well it does give the chariot ladies good posture...

Retroit · December-13-09, 12:44 PM

I'm not impressed at all with the restoration. The before and after pictures look identical. $668,000 could have been put to better use.

Lorax · December-13-09, 01:09 PM

Basically the entire supporting structure underneath the thin copper skin was replaced with stainless steel as opposed to the iron framing that was original to the structure.

The green patina is purposely left intact since this is the most desirable finish for architectural/sculptural copper and it takes decades of weather exposure to achieve it. Also, it matches the other copper figures and trim on the building.

Look to the Grand Palais in Paris for a similar example of weathered copper, also recently restored and re-mounted, and dating to the same period as the Wayne County Building.

http://www.ho0sier.com/fr/paris/grand_palais.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1144/...f56596c37a.jpg

http://www.vinci.com/mecenat/english...lais-paris.jpg

http://www3.delta.edu/rmmee/parisr1.jpg

The original J. Massey Rhind conception for this pair of quadrigas had giant copper standards held vertically by the figures standing in the chariots. I believe they were missing at the time they were removed, but hopefully they are part of the restoration and will be replaced.

Retroit · December-13-09, 01:23 PM

Thanks, Lorax. It's good that they upgraded the supporting structure. But it seems to me that even though they leave the patina on it, they should have also been able to remove the dark streaking to provide a more uniform smooth green finish.

Lorax · December-13-09, 01:26 PM

This is true. Don't know the reason why they didn't. Perhaps it had to do with how much work was contracted for, and how much was spent.

**Huggybear** · December-13-09, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

The original J. Massey Rhind conception for this pair of quadrigas had giant copper standards held vertically by the figures standing in the chariots. I believe they were missing at the time they were removed, but hopefully they are part of the restoration and will be replaced.

Those were removed from the roof after WWII because the Nazis had modeled their standards after Roman standards, and the people of the day couldn't handle coming back to see something so Nazi-like on a public building.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · December-13-09, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by mauser

And MCS is the most terrifying standing example.

agreed, and thrilling

Lorax · December-13-09, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

Those were removed from the roof after WWII because the Nazis had modeled their standards after Roman standards, and the people of the day couldn't handle coming back to see something so Nazi-like on a public building.

Does anyone know if they are coming back? Such thinking is so out of date now. Not to mention the figures are posed as if they should be holding something, as per the sculptor's original intent. Without replacing them it can't be considered a proper restoration.

**DetroitZack** · December-13-09, 02:54 PM

A couple pictures from yesterday...

**mauser** · December-13-09, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

Look to the Grand Palais in Paris for a similar example of weathered copper, also recently restored and re-mounted, and dating to the same period as the Wayne County Building.

And also the Statue of Liberty, also recently refurbished.

Not the same as cast bronze at all. A form of the sculpture is made, and then thin copper sheets are hand beaten over the form in sections. The sections are assembled onto a skeleton frame.

Lorax speaks the truth.

**mauser** · December-13-09, 03:28 PM

HERE IS A LINK to the Burton Collection - shows the copper standards that Lorax described in place on the statues.

**Whitehouse** · December-13-09, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

Basically the entire supporting structure underneath the thin copper skin was replaced with stainless steel as opposed to the iron framing that was original to the structure.

The green patina is purposely left intact since this is the most desirable finish for architectural/sculptural copper and it takes decades of weather exposure to achieve it. Also, it matches the other copper figures and trim on the building.

Look to the Grand Palais in Paris for a similar example of weathered copper, also recently restored and re-mounted, and dating to the same period as the Wayne County Building.

http://www.ho0sier.com/fr/paris/grand_palais.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1144/...f56596c37a.jpg

http://www.vinci.com/mecenat/english...lais-paris.jpg

http://www3.delta.edu/rmmee/parisr1.jpg

The original J. Massey Rhind conception for this pair of quadrigas had giant copper standards held vertically by the figures standing in the chariots. I believe they were missing at the time they were removed, but hopefully they are part of the restoration and will be replaced.

You're forgetting the best known example of quadrigas which is the on top of the Berlin Brandenburger tor.

This chariot with four horses in front was also recently renovated. The Wayne county building quadrigas are also mentioned in the wiki, with a picture no less!

The stues with staffs.

The Minnesota State Capitol quadrila [[glod plated!) still retains the staff, even though it does resemble the Berlin quadrila.