If Detroit is too big for itself...

[iheartthed]

Is it now time to decommission some of the freeways? Just like there isn't much of a need for all those excess houses, there also isn't much of a need for all that excess road capacity. No?

[mwilbert]

Maybe, but it seems unlikely. It isn't as if having the Lodge means you don't need the Chrysler. However, you might need fewer lanes, so if someone wanted to run a commuter rail or dedicated express bus lane or something running down them, that could be sensible.

[DetroitPlanner]

Federal aid has been expended on nearly every mile of freeway in the City of Detroit over the last decade. If you were to decommission the roads, you would owe the Federal government for its investment.

The interstates would be very tough to close. These were built as part of the Eisenhower Transportation Act.

Possible closures might include M-39 or M-10; however you would run into issues around where the roads have major interchanges. Much of the time M-39 is very congested, you may not be able to get public support to close this one; though it could make sense to combine the freeway with the service drives, allowing addition green space, IF you can still ensure the road remains safe and major intersections remain grade separated to keep cars from idling and producing harmful hydrocarbons and greenhouse gasses.

I would also hesitate in closing them down completely. Most of the rail network that we once had is gone, we still need to get the products we manufacture around here to market as efficiently as possible; and get goods manufactured elsewhere to our store shelves at the lowest cost possible. Too much of our economy is tired to trucks for trade, without trade we will die even further.

[exmotowner]

You will need those freeways when the city of Detroit picks back up. And it WILL pick back up. Have faith.

[EMG]

Don't forget to take construction into account. Admittedly I've been out of the area for several years now, so forgive me if Michigan has in fact finally touched on a permanent solution to all road surface problems, but as I remember it there was usually a pretty high likelihood at any given time outside of the coldest days of winter that a good percentage of the Metro Detroit freeway system would be under repair, with resultant lane restrictions or outright closures, be it for crumbling pavement or crumbling bridges - with that being a pretty predictable constant due to winter weather/salt usage, etc. So when you factor in those closures, I doubt that even Detroit has lost enough population in a mere few years to render ANY of the current freeway infrastructure reasonably eligible for sacrifice.

Green earth environmentalists may continue to dream of prying the cars away from enough people to enable the shutting down of freeways, but it's not about to happen any time soon.

[tallboy66]

Have a rail line run along the express lines of 96, imagine a 45 minute trip into the city from AA

[MikeM]

Is it now time to decommission some of the freeways? Just like there isn't much of a need for all those excess houses, there also isn't much of a need for all that excess road capacity. No?

Do you live here? The freeways are jammed every day during rush hour. I just drove across town on I-94 at 1:30 this afternoon and it was stop & go through midtown. The afternoon traffic gets congested around 3:30 and in the morning there are jams as early as 6:00 AM. Besides, how would you "decommission" them, and how would you pay for it? Do you want that traffic on the surfcae streets? They're a mess as it is - besides the bad drivers there are pot holes, poor lane markings, poor signage, erratic number of lanes, poor traffic light timing, traffic lights where they are no longer needed.

[iheartthed]

Do you live here? The freeways are jammed every day during rush hour. I just drove across town on I-94 at 1:30 this afternoon and it was stop & go through midtown. The afternoon traffic gets congested around 3:30 and in the morning there are jams as early as 6:00 AM.

Well, congested means two different things to you and I. But citing this editorial from today's Freep:

However, the biggest obstacle to efficient light rail remains the lack of relative congestion in the metro Detroit area.

The amount of people per mile of paved road in the metro Detroit area is among the lowest in the country for major cities. By way of comparison, the Washington, D.C., metro area has almost three times more people per mile of paved road than does Detroit. New York City has twice as many folks per mile of paved road, while Chicago has almost 50% more than Detroit.

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...te=fullarticle

If Detroit is truly that saturated with excess road capacity, as the writer claims, then maybe the local municipalities and state could save money by removing some of that excess capacity? That could come in the form of closing lanes on certain freeways. Especially now that we're in the winter driving season, when communities will have to spend money to clear roadways for drivers. How much money would be saved by shutting down a lane so that you don't have to maintain it?

[MikeM]

I don't know how congested is defined, but to me it's congested if you can't drive the speed limit.

The amount of people per mile of paved road in the metro Detroit area is among the lowest in the country for major cities.

True, but they're all on the expressway passing through neigborhoods full of weeds.

[dtowncitylover]

Didn't Archer want to decommission the Davison? Of course, what a pointless freeway anyway.

[MikeM]

Not pointless in 1942.

[dtowncitylover]

Not pointless in 1942.

But wasn't pointless even in 1942? I mean if you want to build a crosstown expressway [[actually the original name for the Ford Fwy) then why didn't they build it? The Davison goes nowhere!

[DetroitPlanner]

Didn't Archer want to decommission the Davison? Of course, what a pointless freeway anyway.

Detroit never owned the Davison. The majority of the Davison Freeway is in Highland Park. During the Archer adminstration however ownership was transferred from Wayne County Department of Public Services to the Michigan Department of Transportation [[MDOT). MDOT then reconstructed the roadway to AASHTO Standards.

The Davison does allow crosstown movements and connects to I-96. These movements were hampered somewhat during the Young Adminstration when McNichols was closed by City Airport. I use Davison frequently to get from Warrendale to Hamtramck, it is the most logical route.

[DetroitPlanner]

They're a mess as it is - besides the bad drivers there are pot holes, poor lane markings, poor signage, erratic number of lanes, poor traffic light timing, traffic lights where they are no longer needed.

Mike, you need to adjust your driving speeds. This morning during the AM peak I made it from W of Wyoming to Rosa Parks without stopping once along Michigan. When I was a student at Eastern I could make it from Downtown Ypsi to Outer Drive without hitting a light.

Generally speeds are timed at the X8 MPH. [[28, 38, 48) Keep your eyes on two sets of traffic lights ahead of you. You will save a ton of gas and not be so frustrated with driving. Of course there may be some idiot 'bad driver' out there screwing things up for you! Try it, its fun.

[EastsideAl]

But wasn't pointless even in 1942? I mean if you want to build a crosstown expressway [[actually the original name for the Ford Fwy) then why didn't they build it? The Davison goes nowhere!

In 1942 that was one of the most congested parts of the Detroit area, particularly when the shifts would let out at Ford, Chevy, Chrysler and other nearby plants at just about the same time. Traffic could be cleared out on a north-south access reasonably quickly along Woodward, Oakland, Hamilton, and other streets, but crosstown traffic clearance was quite difficult, as was moving any trucks or other heavy vehicles out of the area quickly.

Later, when the Jeffries was built, the plan was to extend the freeway down Davison from the Lodge to connect with it. Houses and commercial buildings along Davison were purchased and cleared, but for some reason the freeway itself was never built.

[iheartthed]

I don't know how congested is defined, but to me it's congested if you can't drive the speed limit.

Do you really need to drive 70 MPH through a city center?

True, but they're all on the expressway passing through neigborhoods full of weeds.

So?

[MikeM]

Do you really need to drive 70 MPH through a city center?

The speed limit is 55 MPH. If I can't drive 55 then it's congested.

[MikeM]

True, but they're all on the expressway passing through neigborhoods full of weeds.

So?

So that's why the amount of people per mile of paved road can be so low, yet the freeways are still heavily used.

[iheartthed]

So that's why the amount of people per mile of paved road can be so low, yet the freeways are still heavily used.

I'm not asking why. I'm asking is it necessary.

[lilpup]

Is it now time to decommission some of the freeways? Just like there isn't much of a need for all those excess houses, there also isn't much of a need for all that excess road capacity. No?

Only if you want to kill what's left of the city.

[MikeM]

Is what necessary? The existence of expressways? Do you want to raise the people/mile of paved road by filling in the ditches and spreading the traffic on to existing surface streets?

[313WX]

If any road needs to be decommissioned, it's Grand River.

With all the freeways running through the west side, that street has become fairly irrelevent. It always seems completely empty, even during the peak of rush hous. Perhaps removing 2 of its lanes [[1 each way) would help.

[Bearinabox]

If any road needs to be decommissioned, it's Grand River.

With all the freeways running through the west side, that street has become fairly irrelevent. It always seems completely empty, even during the peak of rush hous. Perhaps removing 2 of its lanes [[1 each way) would help.

Perhaps building a rail line down it would help. Car traffic may be relatively light, but the bus line gets extremely crowded at peak hours.

[mwilbert]

The big arterials are all too wide for current traffic levels, and are pedestrian unfriendly. Putting some kind of transit down Woodward is a first step to fixing that. The proposed BRT for Gratiot would be another. And yes, I know everyone hates BRT.

[gnome]

Close them all. Issue bikes to all residents. Enforce the new rigid laws with National Guard.

This plan will save money, increase the health and fitness of the populace and cut down on the number of cigerette butts litter. Except for Django, no one smokes while biking.