Urban Grocery Project...

[urbanoutdoors]

http://conyers.house.gov/index.cfm?F...0-f4ac0d6d1f12

Michigan’s Urban Grocery Project
Michiganurbangrocery.doc | 24.0 KBs

Making the Case: Michigan’s Urban Grocery Project, is an essential component to the success of a larger initiative that brings together neighborhoods, local businesses, and community organizations to increase access to nutritious food sources and provide sustainable economic anchors for Detroit’s struggling neighborhoods. The high level study will address key issues related to market potential, operating and capital expenses, entrepreneurial training, cross-cultural relationship building, neighborhood vitality, and site identification and pre-development.
This is a 500,000 Appropriation that looks to help bring grocers to Detroit's market...

[Blueidone]

$500K to STUDY this? Detroit needs grocery stores. What's to study? They would be better off giving the $500K to non-profit groups that are willing to open some local markets in the neighborhoods.

I know that idea won't be popular...but I'm very tired of hearing about the government giving money to STUDY something and nothing else ever comes of it.

[leland_palmer]

[Danny]

The last urban grocery happen in Detroit was Zacarros. It was a bust! The urban grocery at Downtown Detroit is a [[M.O.C.A.D.) esque psuedo art meant to empress capitalistic customers for the Final Four. Detroit already has urban groceries thanks to lot of Chaldean owners and their families.

[Retroit]

They ought to have a study on how stupidity can be passed from wife to husband.

[nouthen]

I hate Wallmart with a passion but maybe they can open 1 in the heart of the city and that might help..possibly in the old Hudson location or even where the donovan used to be

[Irvine Laird]

Perhaps the study is a good idea.

The law of supply and demand would hold that if demand for grocery stores is so great in Detroit, then retailers would be lining up to open for business in the city.

They're not.

Why?

It's not merely a matter of opening grocery stores in neighborhoods that need them. If it were that simple, someone out to make a buck would have done it already.

The matter at hand is how to do it right so that new retail establishments in the city limits will "stick" and influence the opening of more retail establishments. Sometimes a $500,000 study is not such a bad idea if it saves millions of dollars in losses and years of setback if businesses try and fail in the marketplace.

[3WC]

It never ceases to amaze me how people justify spending $500,000 on a study such as the one being proposed.

There is an abundant amount of information already available. All the chain stores have reams of data on demographics, income levels by area throughout the City, projected operational costs, and on-staff site selection professionals. While some of that information may be proprietary, most is not.

Someone from the City should merely interview each chain and determine what it would take to get them to open a store in the City, and why. And, get an explaination as to why they haven't opened any. That process should cost a couple of grand of somebody's time and would yield for more practical results than some $500,000 study [[probably by folks who have no idea what questions to ask in the first place, or the type of inmformation that's pertainent.)

[irish_mafia]

No need for the study:

Grocers make 2% margin on the products that they sell.

Shrinkage in the city [[theft by another name) wipes out that margin. Thus, there is no reason to open a store in the city when for the same money, they can open a store in the suburbs and make money.

Ah... but you say, shrinkage still occurs in the suburbs. Yes, but a much lower amount...

Ah...but you say, why not just raise the price of the goods in the city stores to offset the shrinkage?

In an almost entirely black city, the chain would be picketed as racist for selling products at a higher price.. Much easier to avoid the headache and invest elsewhere.

Study complete. Nothing to see here. move on...

[Detroitej72]

Irish, you should send the city a bill for your work!

[softailrider]

No need for the study:

Grocers make 2% margin on the products that they sell.

Shrinkage in the city [[theft by another name) wipes out that margin. Thus, there is no reason to open a store in the city when for the same money, they can open a store in the suburbs and make money.

Ah... but you say, shrinkage still occurs in the suburbs. Yes, but a much lower amount...

Ah...but you say, why not just raise the price of the goods in the city stores to offset the shrinkage?

In an almost entirely black city, the chain would be picketed as racist for selling products at a higher price.. Much easier to avoid the headache and invest elsewhere.

Study complete. Nothing to see here. move on...

I believe all of the above is true, but, how do you explain the Meijer on 12 Mile and Telegraph in Southfield? It's in an almost entirely black area, the store is always busy, it's clean, very well stocked, lots of check out lanes open. Easy to get in and out, and has exactly the same prices as their other stores.

[East Detroit]

How is the Kroger at 7 Mile and Gratiot working out?

[detmich]

I believe all of the above is true, but, how do you explain the Meijer on 12 Mile and Telegraph in Southfield? It's in an almost entirely black area, the store is always busy, it's clean, very well stocked, lots of check out lanes open. Easy to get in and out, and has exactly the same prices as their other stores.

Isn't that in a suburb? Seems your answer is pretty self explanatory when you read what Irish wrote. Ah, I see, you were trying to make this into a "race" issue right away. Do you live in Detroit by any chance?

[East Detroit]

Ah, I see, you were trying to make this into a "race" issue right away. Do you live in Detroit by any chance?

One good generalization deserves another?

Do you live in the suburbs by any chance?

[detmich]

One good generalization deserves another?

Do you live in the suburbs by any chance?

No, just being a smart ass.

[vintagesoul]

I believe all of the above is true, but, how do you explain the Meijer on 12 Mile and Telegraph in Southfield? It's in an almost entirely black area, the store is always busy, it's clean, very well stocked, lots of check out lanes open. Easy to get in and out, and has exactly the same prices as their other stores.

Meijer will always do well because they sell more than groceries [[they are able to mark up the non-grocery stuff) and because they are a large corporation. This theory is specific to small grocery stores. Think Spartan stores. That's what they all are here in the city.

I will say that University Foods seems to do well, and I have noticed that they have a pretty decent selection...prices aren't too bad. It's close to my house, I can walk there so that's the major convenience factor for me. I do most of my shopping there, and occasionally I will go to the burbs if I need something I can't get.

I certainly hope they get their money's worth out of this study. Though I would like to see more of U foods and less of Harbortown type markets. Nice clean Spartan stores are what the city needs. Fresh produce, a good selection of healthy items and friendly staff. I'm holding my breath...

[EastsideAl]

Ah, I see, you were trying to make this into a "race" issue right away.

Seems to me that irish_mafia already took care of that for you, before softail's post.

In an almost entirely black city, the chain would be picketed as racist for selling products at a higher price.. Much easier to avoid the headache and invest elsewhere.

Which is scare-mongering race-baiting BS, because people in the city already pay more for their groceries from the smaller markets that are here now. I don't see any protests.

Vintagesoul is exactly correct about what the primary needs of this city are. Which is not places like Zaccaro's, but clean, well-stocked and managed, and reasonably priced regular supermakets.

[professorscott]

The grocery store issue is not complicated. It hasn't got anything to do with race; big chain stores study monetary demographics because the only color they care about is green. So here is why there aren't chain grocery stores, or many stores of any type at all, in Detroit.

1. Taxes are very high, which eats into profits.
2. Theft is an issue, but theft would be an issue anywhere, so let's focus on the real problem:
3. Lack of any police response to property crime. [[If you steal from a store in Southfield, the Southfield police will try to arrest and prosecute you; if you steal from a store in Detroit, nothing whatever will happen to you unless you are very unlucky.)

It is the combined problem of very high taxes [[which is a government problem) and very poor services, particularly with regard to public safety [[which is a government problem) which keeps chain stores mostly out of Detroit. Only the government can fix a government problem. Study this shit to death and spend millions; there's the answer.

[hybridy]

In terms of Detroit retail, the old K Mart on 7 mile where Home Depot is now, was the highest grossing K Mart in the state if not country. Unfortunately, it had the highest rate of theft. The way the store was laid out hindered security. All of the aisles were oriented perpendicular to the cashiers.

Everyone knows Detroit has the spending power, but like was previously mentioned its all about risk versus reward.

[SWMAP]

There is already a large body of knowledge about the grocery desert of Detroit. Grocers provided these comments in a Detroit News article in 2007:

"Here are some reasons cited by national retail experts on why brand supermarket chains avoid Detroit:
Net profits at supermarkets run 1-5 percent of revenue. If shoplifting by customers and employees runs 7-8 percent, the store is doomed to lose money.
High cost of maintaining security for the stores, something most suburban locations don't need. Shopping carts often disappear, at a cost of $300 per.
Personal safety for employees, with robberies, thefts and assaults both inside and outside the stores.
Difficulty finding qualified managers willing to run Detroit stores. Most prefer the suburban locations.
Problems seeking qualified workers for the stores. It can be a major undertaking to find employees who can pass reading, writing and math tests along with credit, criminal background and drug tests. And there is a constant turnover of employees at stores in the city. "It's a human resource nightmare," said David J. Livingston, a supermarket expert from Wisconsin.
Declining population. No national chain wants to move into an area that is losing population.
Lower per-capita income. That means less expenditure on food.
Racism and discrimination accusations. If the store raises its prices because of higher costs of doing business, it is often charged with gouging the poor.
A well-publicized violent crime or armed robbery can cost the store 10 percent of its business. Three such crimes, experts say, and the store may as well close its doors. "
Source: Supermarket expertsv

[Bearinabox]

In terms of Detroit retail, the old K Mart on 7 mile where Home Depot is now, was the highest grossing K Mart in the state if not country. Unfortunately, it had the highest rate of theft. The way the store was laid out hindered security. All of the aisles were oriented perpendicular to the cashiers.

Everyone knows Detroit has the spending power, but like was previously mentioned its all about risk versus reward.

How is the Pembroke/Telegraph K-Mart doing in that regard?

[Irvine Laird]

This matter is one of high importance to the nonprofit for which I work. The neighborhood in which we invest our resources is similar to some neighborhoods in Detroit: High crime, high unemployment, low high school graduation rates, population loss, etc. Consequently, residents must drive [[if they own a car) far to shop for groceries. Otherwise, they must rely on small corner liquor stores that sell unhealthy food at a high price--a bad combination for low-income families.

We recently began to volley around an idea among other nonprofits in the area: What if we formed a new nonprofit to build and manage a grocery store in the target neighborhood? This is the only viable option we see to provide residents easy access to affordable, healthy food.

In the long view, a neighborhood grocer would serve as an anchor for the cultural, economic, and social development of the neighborhood.

All of that sounds like a good idea, but the problem is this: None of the nonprofits in these conversations know the first thing about opening and running a grocery store. We know almost nothing about retail. Frankly, we do not know enough about the history of retail in our target area.

So, the study is a good idea, especially if it will be up to nonprofits to address Detroit's dearth of grocers. The data is the difference between failure and success. If we're going to do it, we should do it right.