2010 Detroit Tigers

[401don]

Time to start a thread for next year's squad as the Tigs may look very different by the end of this week's winter meetings.
So far . . .Clay Rapada to Texas for a bat, 2 balls and cash.. . . Brad Miller Australian lefty reliever, by way of Korea and Minnesota, signed as a free agent . .
Fox Sports is reporting Edwin Jackson very close to being dealt.

[smogboy]

You're right. It really has been a long time coming for this year's Tiger thread on DYes.

Sure it's still disappointing and puzzling about the departure of Curtis Granderson in light of the Justin Verlander and Jose Valverde signings. One wonders if that deal couldn't have been much closer to the start of the season; it just screamed of fire sale when it was done.

Yes, I could stomach the loss of Polanco [[long term contract at his age and for what price?), Edwin Jackson [[tailed off towards the end of the season), Fernando Rodney [[and we were grousing about Todd Jones' up-&-down performance the years prior?) & Brandon Lyon [[nothing too distinguishing during his Tiger career I thought).

There still remains the Johnny Damon possibility here which might not be a bad gig if the price and term is right. I think Dombrowski waiting this one out a little longer might not be a bad thing but I hope it's only for a year or two deal- at most. Everything we've heard is that he's an upstanding guy in the clubhouse and might have a fume left in the tank. Defensively he still scares me, but he could be an interesting lead-off guy and a left handed bat that we've needed forever and a day.

Supposedly Atlanta's cast their hat in the ring for his services, but we'll see how Scott Boras plays this one out. Anyone else's thoughts on signing Johnny Damon?

[sirrealone]

My guess is that the Granderson deal was not about salary so much as getting maximum return. Granderson has had problems hitting left handed for a while, especially last year. As a leadoff hitter, his average was unacceptable. I think Dombrowski & Co. thought that these problems might be persistent. He also knew Granderson still had a high reputation [[ie high return in trade value) but that another 'off' year would lower his value much lower than what it is now. He basically saw it as "Granderson had an off year but teams are willing to pay above market value given his performance" and jumped on the deal. The closest equivilent I can come up with is when he traded Jeff Weaver, whose numbers weren't great but had a high value, and got Bonderman, Pena, and Rodney in return. If he would have waited even another year, Weaver would have gotten much less in return.

The Valvedre signing puzzled me but it's making a little more sense. If they manage to compete, they look good. If they struggle, they can simply trade him mid-year and probably get a good return since closers are always in demand. Plus, depending on how things are going, the closers-in-waiting [[Zumaya, Perry, new young guys) could be trade bait to fill in holes if they're in a tight race as long as they stay healthy and perform.

I'm not sure about Damon. I wouldn't mind a two year deal at no more than $6m per year, but anything more than that and they're either committing too long or paying too much. Bringing in a veteran slugger looked pretty good when they signed Gary Sheffield, too, and that couldn't have turned out worse.

They have a lot of junk money coming off the books after this year. One thing to watch is whether Maggs hits his 540 at bats or whatever it is needed to trigger his 2011 option for $18mil. I firmly believe that there is NO, NO, NO way this should be allowed to happen.

[Ray1936]

For entertainment purposes only.......

Futures odds to win the American League pennant, as posted at the M casino, Henderson, NV [[pretty representative of all the LV sports books):

NY Yankees 7/5
Boston Red Sox 4/1
Tampa Bay Rays 7/1
Los Angeles Angels 7/l
Chicago White Sox 10/1
Seattle Mariners 10/1
DETROIT TIGERS 15/1
Minnesota Twins 15/1
Texas Rangers 15/1
Baltimore Orioles 25/1
Oakland Athletics 25/1
Cleveland Indians 30/1
Toronto Blue Jays 30/1
Kansas City Royals 50/1

Over in the National League, the Phillies and Cardinals are favord, 2/1 and 9/5 respectively.

Futures bets are sucker bets. [[I put 20 on the Tigers today.)

[Haikoont]

For entertainment purposes only.......

Futures odds to win the American League pennant, as posted at the M casino, Henderson, NV [[pretty representative of all the LV sports books):

NY Yankees 7/5
Boston Red Sox 4/1
Tampa Bay Rays 7/1
Los Angeles Angels 7/l
Chicago White Sox 10/1
Seattle Mariners 10/1
DETROIT TIGERS 15/1
Minnesota Twins 15/1
Texas Rangers 15/1
Baltimore Orioles 25/1
Oakland Athletics 25/1
Cleveland Indians 30/1
Toronto Blue Jays 30/1
Kansas City Royals 50/1

Over in the National League, the Phillies and Cardinals are favord, 2/1 and 9/5 respectively.

Futures bets are sucker bets. [[I put 20 on the Tigers today.)

Just Saturday I put $20 on the Tigers to win it. But I got 22:1 odds.

[smogboy]

My guess is that the Granderson deal was not about salary so much as getting maximum return. Granderson has had problems hitting left handed for a while, especially last year. As a leadoff hitter, his average was unacceptable. I think Dombrowski & Co. thought that these problems might be persistent. He also knew Granderson still had a high reputation [[ie high return in trade value) but that another 'off' year would lower his value much lower than what it is now. He basically saw it as "Granderson had an off year but teams are willing to pay above market value given his performance" and jumped on the deal. The closest equivilent I can come up with is when he traded Jeff Weaver, whose numbers weren't great but had a high value, and got Bonderman, Pena, and Rodney in return. If he would have waited even another year, Weaver would have gotten much less in return.

In the long run, I agree that we might've actually gotten the better part of the deal here too. Emotionally we were pretty well connected to Granderson so I can understand the fans' dismay at sending this guy out of town. It just makes me wonder about the timing though. Were the Tigers actively shopping him or were the Yankees the ones calling first? Heck, if any team out there wants to offer us a great deal, I'd have no problem shipping off anyone. It does leave me to wonder if at some point early on, Mike Ilitch said to shave off some money from the payroll and then changed his mind later with the Valverde & Verlander signings. Also would Granderson's value still be just as high now as it was during the time of the deal? Would Granderson's value have dropped because the Yankees would've looked elsewhere for a center fielder?

The Valvedre signing puzzled me but it's making a little more sense. If they manage to compete, they look good. If they struggle, they can simply trade him mid-year and probably get a good return since closers are always in demand. Plus, depending on how things are going, the closers-in-waiting [[Zumaya, Perry, new young guys) could be trade bait to fill in holes if they're in a tight race as long as they stay healthy and perform.

With Rodney & Lyon gone I think we almost HAD to make this deal. I think Fernando Rodney caught lightning in a bottle last year in having the record he did. He was as painful to watch at times as Todd Jones ever was but he got the job done. I don't think Dombrowski & Co. trust Zumaya's health to completely hand over the closer's role to him just yet and Perry is still just way too young to take on that sort of pressure. Having a veteran presence in Valverde makes sense to me; now he just needs to perform!

I'm not sure about Damon. I wouldn't mind a two year deal at no more than $6m per year, but anything more than that and they're either committing too long or paying too much. Bringing in a veteran slugger looked pretty good when they signed Gary Sheffield, too, and that couldn't have turned out worse.

Personally I'd prefer a one year deal and with a club option for another. Front load the one year and have it filled with incentives for the second. I know negotiating with Scott Boras is like dealing with Satan himself at times but for whatever reason, he's done the Tigers fine. I think Damon would work out well here and would produce. But if we do sign him, what's it going to do to Carlos Guillen's role? I know he still fancies himself as an every day player [[except in left field and not at DH) but is this going to expose him as a primadonna and not a team player that's willing to accept a reduced role on this team?

They have a lot of junk money coming off the books after this year. One thing to watch is whether Maggs hits his 540 at bats or whatever it is needed to trigger his 2011 option for $18mil. I firmly believe that there is NO, NO, NO way this should be allowed to happen.

I wasn't too hip about him reaching his benchmark last year. Like Guillen, there has to be a point when some of these older players shouldn't be playing day-to-day and getting as many at bats as they do. That's not to say they still shouldn't be productive when they are inserted into the line-up but their glory days are behind them now. $18 million is just way too much to be paying a part time hitter too. Thank goodness for Maggs that his defense the last few years has been serviceable too.

[Knocturnal]

Any forumers have luck getting Opening Day tickets this year? My internet experience proved to be slow and trying, but I was able to get two. Unfortunately, they aren't together, but I'll still make the most of it.

[Danny]

Tigers will make the playoffs this year.

[d.mcc]

Any forumers have luck getting Opening Day tickets this year? My internet experience proved to be slow and trying, but I was able to get two. Unfortunately, they aren't together, but I'll still make the most of it.

Not opening day tickets, but I did make it to Lakeland yesterday to take in a spring training game. Sczcherzer [[sp?) got rocked, but Ni, Zumaya, and Willis [[!!!) came in an pitched pretty well. Willis most especially, even got a standing O on his departure.

[Ravine]

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Go to MLB.com, and click on "Stats," to see Placido Polanco as MLB RBI Leader. I advise that you do so before tomorrow's games are even so much as one inning old.
Act Now!! Free Temple-Reduction Surgery Offer to first ten viewers!!

[smogboy]

Can someone explain to me Johnny Damon's white cleats?

I haven't had much of a chance to keep up with the Motor City Kitties as of late as it's Red Wings playoffs and the NFL Draft is right around the corner. I just kicked on the Detroit Fox Sports feed and saw Damon sporting some bright white shoes. For a moment I thought it was an exhibition game or some oddball commemorative event.

[smogboy]

Alright, I'm slowly but surely getting back into following our Tigers a little more seriously now. 25 games into the season so far and I'm actually pleasantly surprised.

-A mere half game out of first place?
-The recent stretch of games against good teams on the west coast where they came out faring pretty well?
-The relief pitching being the strength of this team so far?
-Dontrelle Willis & Jeremy Bonderman throwing impressive games?
-Magglio's early power?
-Cabrera seemingly forgetting about last season's ills and hitting with authority?
-Austin Jackson nearly making the Tigers faithful forget about Granderson [[who just got put on the Yankees' DL)?
-Valverde not giving us Fernando Rodney or Todd Jones-esque fear in the late innings?

Again, I'm mildly impressed. It's a heckuva long season with a lot more to go, but so far they've seemed scrappy, have had some some strong pitching throughout and the hitting has been more than adequate to go the distance in shoot outs.

[smogboy]

And since it just got done with a few hours ago and it's fresh on my mind, the Verlander performance today against the Angels was amazing. Three miserable hits scattered about? While it wasn't equal to his no-hit game last year, he was still masterful on the mound. He had his heat and his change-ups working to perfection. It really was a joy to watch someone like that pitch for us. It was way cool knowing that Justin was just going to put this team on his back, go deep into the innings just to give the bullpen a break.

Great game. More games like this and I can see a Cy Young trophy on the Verlander mantle before long.

[daddeeo]

I'd like to see the Tigers become more consistent. They have been all over the place this year.
I like their bullpen especially the new closer. I'm afraid Bondo isn't going to get it together and be gone before too long. Too bad they have to carry Guillen for another year. I think if he doesn't cut the mustard this season, they'll have to let him go. He is standing in the way of Boisch.
So far I'm ok with this team, Growing pains are to be expected but I like our new rookies and Avila. Now, if we could get a shortstop who could hit and field.

[CLAUDE G]

I still think we got a good chance of making the play-offs.

The only good thing is that Cleveland owes us a game that was cancelled the other day. So hopefully if it comes down to the wire like it did last year, we can play Cleveland to make up for the tie-breaker.

Good thing Detroit has a good record agenst cleveland right now!

[Ravine]

Two things:

The Detroit Tigers have to show that they can beat the Twins. I don't give a damn what else they do, such as sweeping the Rangers, or making hay in inter-league play, and crap like that. If they're going to amount to anything, they have to be able to beat the Twins. Not every game, obviously, but c'mon. Look at what just happened last week: We didn't face Liriano. We didn't face Pavano [[who tends to prosper when pitching to us.) Mauer was out, owing to the fact that our idea of getting the best of Big Joe is to have him hurt himself by slamming his heel into one of our bases. Morneau was suffering from back soreness. Joe Nathan is out for the season.
And they still whipped us like we're runts of the litter.
It seems that the Twins can beat us with Kevin Slowey and Nick fuckin' Punto. Disgusting & discouraging.

Other thing:

If-- and it's a big-ass "if," in my opinion-- the Tigers can actually position themselves for a realistic shot at the playoffs, could they please not allow the sorry-ass Kansas City Royals to fuck it up? Please?

[Ravine]

See, this is why I don't bother posting here anymore, and discuss baseball in another forum. The Tigers just won 3 out of 4 against the Yanks, topped off by a terrific game on Thursday, and this thread is comatose, as usual.
I won't bother, anymore.

[Flanders]

Tigers took 3 of 4 from the Yankees, albeit @ home, including TWO shutout wins, that certainly helped me forget about their sweep @ the hands [[and bats) of the Twins. Now they play the underachieving Red Sox over the weekend, while the Twins go up against the Yankees on the road. Excellent opportunity for the Tigers to close the gap between them and the first place Twins. Hoping for two of three.

Boesch has been brought up while Guillen is on the DL, and is hitting the ball hard, and Austin Jackson has been better than could be hoped for, despite the Ks he is amassing, although his BABIP indicates that he "should" come down to earth sooner or later [[hopefully MUCH later). The Tigers obviously got the best of the three team trade between them, the Diamondbacks, and the Yankees. Sherzer has not pitched well, but he is young and hopefully will improve as the season progresses.

What will the Tigers do when Guillen is ready to come off the DL???

[Flanders]

See, this is why I don't bother posting here anymore, and discuss baseball in another forum. The Tigers just won 3 out of 4 against the Yanks, topped off by a terrific game on Thursday, and this thread is comatose, as usual.
I won't bother, anymore.

I frequently post on another baseball forum, and occassionally will browse this one to see if anyone has recently added a reply or two, and only Smogboy has made any effort, but apparently he gave it up as well. Perhaps the Tigers leading the CD during almost the entire season last year, then yet again losing the title to the Twins at the very end, ala '06, has made most of us Tigers fans a little skittish on being too optimistic about the Tigers' chances of clinching a postseason berth. Certainly the performance of the Rays so far, as well as the likelyhood of them or the Yankees claiming the WC spot in the AL ED makes winning the CD the ONLY possible scenario for the Tigers to play in the ALDS, and the Twins seem to be even better than last season, even with the loss of their closer Nathan for the entire year, and they are obviously geeked about playing in their new ballpark...

Yankees fans were grousing about Valverde's antics on the mound, especially the game where he tipped his cap twice while striking out the heart of the order in the 9th inning. Seems to me that Joba also will do a fist pump when he Ks a batter as well, but whatever, the are just angry about losing the series to a team that they feel is not "elite" like theirs is..heh!!

[ggores]

a little skittish on being too optimistic about the Tigers'

Bingo. I am waiting until the next five games are over and done. So far they pretty much look like the same .500+ club as last year, maybe a little bit better. The 3 thru 5 in the pitching rotation needs to really jam to supplement the 1 and 2, and so far, they've not been terribly convincing. As for Guillen, I think it's simple, he'll return to his position. Didn't Leyland say Guillen was the key? Makes me nuts when KC beats us, too.

[smogboy]

I frequently post on another baseball forum, and occassionally will browse this one to see if anyone has recently added a reply or two, and only Smogboy has made any effort, but apparently he gave it up as well.

I haven't given up one bit. This is still OUR Detroit Tigers. I've just been busy pushing the rock uphill trying to make a semi-honest buck. Real life has just kicked my butt as of late and all I've been able to do is just check out the box scores the day after. I wish I could've taken the time to go down and watch a game in person, listen to the game or see it on the tube. It just hasn't happened for me and please don't think I don't care for this team. I really do love this game.

And to mention I'm just making the transition from the Red Wings ouster to baseball. I'm still mourning no winged wheel in June.

But from what little baseball I have seen as of late has been this...

1) Miguel Cabrera- Wow. This guy very well could be a triple crown threat. He seems to have righted his own ship and last year's off field issues have not been a problem at all. He truly is a threat every time he steps up to the plate. His fielding really has come a long way too. I still remember the knock on him when he played third but since transitioning over to 1B, he's been stellar.

2) Brennan Boesch- what a pleasant surprise so far. He seems too have found a nice groove with his timely hitting. It's actually a joy to see a Toledo call-up hit so well.

3) Justin Verlander seems to have his fire and competitive nature back on the bump. He seems to have really mastered throwing the heat as well as the change-up. What a nice range going from 78MPH to his near 100MPH bullets.

4) Austin Jackson- He's making a darn good case to forget about Curtis Granderson. He's patrolling a massive CF with some authority and is hitting an amazing average.

5) The bullpen has been stellar.

6) I wish we could get some power batting from either one of our catchers. Laird & Avila haven't exactly swung the bat with any authority or moxie.

7) Scherzer has been a disappointment so far. He's going to play himself out of the line-up if he continues to serve up the IKEA meatballs to the opposing team. I've heard rumors that he's tipping off his fastball and if he is, needs to figure it out fast.

8) Nice outings as of late from Dontrelle Willis & Jeremy Bonderman. Good going and way to fight and claw themselves into a measure of respectability. Keep up the good work!

9) No offense to Scott Sizemore, but I do miss Polanco and his timely hitting.

10) We need Ravine kvetching about this game & team again. Kansas City be damned; we'll get over that hump somehow. And we'll get better dialogue going about this team going. Like I said before, it's OUR team- if anyone's going to discuss it smartly and rationally, it's going to be us- the loyal fans.

[smogboy]

Before people think that we Detroiters don't care about our beloved team...

WOTTA victory against those Red Sox tonight!

Sure it took 12 innings and we squandered far too many chances, but it was a testimony to how scrappy this team can be. Dontrelle Willis looked lost out there early on, but fortunately the game didn't get away from the Tigers too early and they battled back.

Boesch was a monster out there again. I was pulling for him to complete the cycle for the victory; he would've been elevated to demi-god status if he had done that. I loved the way our bullpen hung in there and held firm against a pretty potent BoSox offense. I'm still perplexed at the bottom third of our batting line-up... how dreadful! Laird left enough guys on base to start a euchre match out there. Seriously if guys like Laird, Inge, Sizemore & Everett can hit .250 each, we'd be deadly.

But they still somehow won. I'll savor that for now but it's bittersweet knowing that some of the guys aren't even hitting their own weight.

[daddeeo]

Is anybody getting sick of Rod Allen blowing hard every game?
Have you ever heard him say anything you haven't heard?
I don't mind him trying to be informative but he never seems to shut up.
It's like him and Mario are afraid of any dead air. It's not like they are
on radio. Ernie Harwell knew how to incorporate the background noises of the ball
park in his broadcasts.
When you are on TV, most people can see the obvious. It's annoying
when a broadcaster drones on and on. I'd completely turn the sound down but I enjoy the occasional crowd sounds.
Anyone else notice this?

[Flanders]

Sizemore and Scherzer go to the minors, and Worth with Galarraga back up with the club. Guillen apparently is going to play 2B when he completes his rehab after being on the DL..hmmm...

Sizemore was dead last in the AL for fielding range, and about the middle of the pack for zone, so even though Guillen obviously won't improve on those, he may mitigate his fielding by hitting better than Sizemore, who was straddling the Mendoza line when he was demoted. We will see if he can play the position well enough until he is replaced for better defense [[Worth) late in games that the Tigers are winning, or if they are being blown out. He also has to remain healthy, which is less likely than if he was just the Tigers' DH, but maybe more likely if he was to play in LF.

Laird and Avila are "hitting" a miniscule .159 and .143, respectively...Yikes!!
Unfortunately veteran starting catchers that hit above .250 and are also above average defensively aren't exactly plentiful in MLB, and I think DD was too SP obsessed in the draft over the past 4 or 5 years, and did not strongly address their near future needs for catching, or the left side of the infield. There is not one single catcher in the Tigers' system, from A ball to AAA that is hitting above .200 this season so far...Double Yikes!!!

There are a few FA catchers who do not have an option year for 2011, but the competition from quite a few teams to sign them, including the teams that they now play for, will be fierce. The Yankees and Boston alsocould be in the running for younger catchers than Varitek, Martinez. and perhaps less likely, Posada. The Red Sox could then trade either Varitek and/or Martinez for pitching or IF/OF improvements.

[smogboy]

As disappointing as was Porcello's performance was on the one lone game versus the White Sox the other day, Justin Verlander performed like a stud on the mound against the A's. Five hits the A's and completes the game too? The Athletics were on fire just recently against Seattle as of late too. I'm sure the bullpen thanked him for not having to drag themselves into the fray. This team needs a guy like that who can go deep into games and spare some of those arms. I heard a stat that we use the bullpen the most in the majors; any rest afforded a player can't be bad.

Not a bad way to start this west coast trip and to have the Twins tank one, we get a little more ground on them.

Tonight also marked that magical 40 game marker that Sparky Anderson's got us looking at now. 23-17 record, one game out, and it seems as though the only issues we have so far have been where to put some of our aging veterans into the line-up in light of some of the up & coming youngsters. The only disappointments that stand out glaringly to me so far have been Sizemore & Scherzer- and I think a stint in Toledo will do them fine. Volatile guys like Bonderman and Willis have performed admirably; not great but not horrid either. Offensively we've been blessed with the likes of Jackson & Boesch coming out of nowhere to pace this team. I still wish the bottom third of our line-up can generate SOME sort of offense. Porcello needs to find that aggressive groove he had last year; he does seem to rely too much on his heat and doesn't mix his stuff up.

Overall at 40, I'm pretty content. Sure we could improve in some areas [[what team couldn't?) and if this team can overtake Minnesota, I think we might be able to catch some steam and hopefully not look back. This team has the talent to contend for the AL Central- it's just streaky enough and I think Leyland still has some magic left in him to muscle out a victory in the face of defeat.