Workers set to move out of Old Wayne County Building

**Zacha341** · December-04-09, 08:20 PM

Final days in a Beaux-Arts landmark
Workers set to move out of Old Wayne County Building
Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091...366/1408/local

"Victory and Progress," the majestic statues of horse-drawn chariots, stood atop the Old Wayne County Building for close to a century.

But for at least two years they -- like the building they once adorned -- have come to represent unknown fate.

The Wayne County Commission gathered Thursday for the last time in the grand ballroom at 600 Randolph. By Christmas, the Beaux-Arts landmark will become virtually empty as 500 workers move to the nearby Guardian Building.

The statues sit in a Detroit warehouse due to a dispute between the contractors and the private owners of the building, the Old Wayne County Building Limited Partnership. That leaves the future of the statues and the building, completed in 1904, uncertain amid a historic commercial real estate crisis.

"It's one of the most important buildings in the state of Michigan," architecturally, said Liz Knibbe, a principal at Quinn Evans Architects in Ann Arbor. Knibbe was one of the architects who worked on extensive renovations of the building two decades ago.

But no matter how beautifully the building may be preserved, it's an ugly time to market an empty building in downtown Detroit. The only other tenant in the buildings is a children's day care center in the basement.

"This is as dramatic an example as you can find regarding the office space crisis," said Steven Chaben, managing director of Marcus & Millichap, a real estate investment service firm based in Encino, Calif. "That building is so classic and beautiful, but that actually could increase the costs for the next tenant and that is not good in this kind of market."
Move made to save money

There are some potential new tenants for the building, said Michael Layne, spokesman for the private owners of the building, Old Wayne County Building Limited Partnership.

And the children's day care center is negotiating with the building owner to stay at the site, according to Layne.

Wayne County is moving its workers to the Guardian Building, which it bought in 2007 for $14 million, to save money, said Dennis Niemiec, a Wayne County spokesman.

Earlier this year, Wayne County commissioners approved more bonds for upgrades that will push the cost to renovate the Guardian to $57 million, more than double the original estimate of $27 million. The county was paying the private owners of the old Wayne County Building $5 million a year in rent.

About 150 Wayne County employees in another downtown building, 615 Clifford Street, also are moving to the Guardian.

Commissioners old and new gathered in the board room for the last time Thursday and reminisced. Outside, a "for sale" sign stood in front of the building.

"There's obviously great history and great sentiment attached to this room," said Ed Boike, commission chairman.

"It has served the Wayne County Commission well and the citizens since the turn of the century. So now it's time to move on."
Status of statues is unclear

It's still not clear whether Victory and Progress will make it back atop the building.

Taxpayers footed the $668,000 bill to clean the 20-foot-tall, copper-plated statues. But county officials said there remains a financial dispute between the contractors who restored the statues and the building owners.

And the window is closing fast if Wayne County is expected to foot the bill.

"If we are no longer tenants, our attorneys advise us that we have no obligation to pay anything else," said Niemiec. He said the dispute has involved final costs of the restoration, but declined to disclose the amount.

Layne said the situation has been resolved and the statues could be back on the building this weekend.

That's news to Wayne County and the contractors, Chezcore and Venus Bronze Works Inc. Neither of the two firms said they were aware the situation had been resolved. The firms declined further comment.

laguilar@detnews.com [[313) 222-2760 Darren A. Nichols contributed.

**Fury13** · December-04-09, 08:24 PM

Carpe Diem! Make it Detroit's City Hall.

Lorax · December-04-09, 09:43 PM

This is the first news I've heard on the fate of the copper quadrigas- legally they could be sold to pay the bill unless someone steps in to pay up. Almost an unbelievable scenario, only in Detroit.

How about moving the Detroit Historical Museum to the building? I wonder what the owners are asking for it. This is what I don't understand about those in our community who are billionaires- if you have any sensitivity to architecture or your surroundings, what would it cost a billionaire to step in, buy it and do something creative with it?

Rideron · December-05-09, 08:54 AM

Here's what will happen..

After much sturm and drang, protests, panel discussions on local Sunday talk shows, press conferences about coalitions to save it, etc., etc., etc.......

It will be torn down for more parking.

**Fury13** · December-05-09, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rideron

Here's what will happen..

After much sturm and drang, protests, panel discussions on local Sunday talk shows, press conferences about coalitions to save it, etc., etc., etc.......

It will be torn down for more parking.

I could actually see that happening. The Old Wayne County Limited Partnership [[read: the evil Farbman Group) would probably realize more annual revenue in parking fees than from office space rent in this economy.

**buildingsofdetroit** · December-05-09, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Fury13

Carpe Diem! Make it Detroit's City Hall.

I could get behind that. It would be one step in atoning for the inexcusable decision to raze Old City Hall [[www.buildingsofdetroit.com/places/cityhall) in 1961.

**kathy2trips** · December-05-09, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Fury13

Carpe Diem! Make it Detroit's City Hall.

Abso-freaking-lutely! What better place for city government to get grounded and centered? It's practically a gift....take it!

**eastland** · December-05-09, 05:05 PM

It was slated for the wrecking ball back in the 1950s until the commissioners realized it would cost more to demolish [[$1.5 million or something) than it cost to build fifty some years earlier.

**Ray1936** · December-05-09, 05:23 PM

Lorax said; "the fate of the copper quadrigas"

Dang. Add that word to my memory.
Actually, it sounds a bit like Henry Ford's first car.......

**Gistok** · December-05-09, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

I could get behind that. It would be one step in atoning for the inexcusable decision to raze Old City Hall [[www.buildingsofdetroit.com/places/cityhall) in 1961.

Most people don't realize that Old City Hall is only about half the size of the Old County Building. Looking at old Sanford maps, I was quite surprised by the much smaller footprint of Old City Hall. Also the Old County Building has at least one exta floor to it.

MichMatters · December-05-09, 09:22 PM

There is nowhere near enough room for the city in the County Building, even with a shrunken city government. Hell, the county outgrew the building decades ago, which is why it was mostly ceremonial and purpose for its last few decades, only holding the commission and the executive's office and a few small departments and pieces of departments. You could probably use it as council chambers, and the mayor's office, and maybe a few small departments, and that'd be it.

It's not fitted for modern office usage, so whatever tenants they happen to attract with be niche/small-office tenants or a creative reuse. That is, perhaps a few law offices, maybe some ad company, PR tenants...if you're going the creative route it could perhaps be turned into a small-business incubator. But, there is no way it's going to hold the city government or any conventional big-office tenant.

To be clear, the Coleman A. Young Municipal Center/City-County Building is almost exactly 2 million square feet. You could arbritarily chop that in half for a shrunken city government, and it you'd still need a million square feet. If you want to get even more liberal and cut that number in half, that's still half a million square feet.

Guess how many county workers the building held as of late, and in how many square feet?

500 in less than 120,000 square feet.

I think folks forget the size of city governments. The Wayne County Building couldn't even fully fit the employees of the city of Lansing, Ann Arbor, Flint, or Grand Rapids.

**Whitehouse** · December-05-09, 10:09 PM

Well, you can use it for ceremonial occasions. Great place to get hitched!

**wolverine** · December-05-09, 10:45 PM

I think they should market it as university or college space. Some private U could move in and have quite a noticeable image. Plenty of surface parking in the area to expand.

MichMatters · December-05-09, 10:47 PM

You've got an interesting idea, wolverine. UDM Law [[which is basically right down the street) has been talking about expanding or moving around downtown, for years, now. If the price was right and Farbman worked with them, I'm sure they could make classroom space in there happen. Very interesting, indeed...

**Rocko** · December-08-09, 05:22 AM

Several North American/Palmer Van Lines trucks were parked out along the Fort St. side of the building today loading supplies for the move over to the Guardian.

**davewindsor** · December-08-09, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by MichMatters

You've got an interesting idea, wolverine. UDM Law [[which is basically right down the street) has been talking about expanding or moving around downtown, for years, now. If the price was right and Farbman worked with them, I'm sure they could make classroom space in there happen. Very interesting, indeed...

Somehow, I don't see that happening unless Farbman is willing to give it away for a buck. Down south in Windsor, we gave the Clearly Centre with tonnes of parking in downtown for expansion for St. Claire College's campus for a buck. Recently, the city gave the college the old salvation army building in downtown to St. Claire for another buck. We offered tonnes of prime vacant downtown land for free to University of Windsor for a new engineering building and they turned it down, but they were only happy to a get free beautiful old public school near their the campus and just knock it down for parking. Universities don't even pay property taxes. Colleges and universities are terrible preservationists and Farbman isn't gonna take a hit and sell it off for a buck.

**Khartoum** · December-08-09, 09:38 AM

Woot! More Tigers & Lions game parking coming soon!

**Alfie1a** · December-08-09, 09:44 AM

I had heard somewhere that the Friend of the Court was moving their offices into that building. I'm guessing that what I heard was false since it hasn't been mentioned on this board.

**Detroitnerd** · December-08-09, 10:01 AM

Demolish that beautiful building? The one anchoring Cadillac Square?

Normally you'd have to drop a bomb to find the kind of mindless destruction we accept here on a day-to-day basis.

Lorax · December-08-09, 10:05 AM

One certain poster [[you know who you are) would insist it be demolished the moment it becomes vacant, since there is no such thing as economical mothballing of empty structures according to him.

Looks like Venus Bronze Works gets to keep the copper quadrigas, chariots and all in exchange for not being paid for their work.

They will no doubt end up being auctioned off and end up in some suburban back yard.

So when does the scrapping start?

**Fury13** · December-08-09, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by MichMatters

There is nowhere near enough room for the city in the County Building, even with a shrunken city government... You could probably use it as council chambers, and the mayor's office, and maybe a few small departments, and that'd be it.

So, use it for those purposes, and retain space in the Coleman A. Young Municipal Center for nearly all other departments that are in other buildings now [[Cadillac Tower, First National Building). Leave the Water Dept. where it is. Voila, consolidation of city departments within a couple of blocks of each other.

The Wayne County Building needs to house government offices. Aesthetically, it is best suited for that purpose.

**davewindsor** · December-08-09, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Fury13

So, use it for those purposes, and retain space in the Coleman A. Young Municipal Center for nearly all other departments that are in other buildings now [[Cadillac Tower, First National Building). Leave the Water Dept. where it is. Voila, consolidation of city departments within a couple of blocks of each other.

The Wayne County Building needs to house government offices. Aesthetically, it is best suited for that purpose.

In theory, it is the perfect kind of building for a city hall. But, come on, where's a bankrupt city gonna come up with $5million a year in rent? That's $42 a square foot a year plus operating costs and maintenance. Then, you have to move people into that building.

Though, they would make one of the finest banquet halls in the city if Farbman had the initiative to do that.

**jackie5275** · December-08-09, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Alfie1a

I had heard somewhere that the Friend of the Court was moving their offices into that building. I'm guessing that what I heard was false since it hasn't been mentioned on this board.

It's not false. I have a colleague who works there. She told me that FOC was moving there because they want to move them out of the Penobscot Bldg.

**DetroitZack** · December-08-09, 11:49 AM

I will probably cry if this building is ever demolished.

Lorax · December-08-09, 11:55 AM

What do you want to bet that Farbman has already sold the copper quadrigas that once adorned the roofline of the building?

They are probably already installed in their new home, where ever that is. There is no way such a giant wealthy real estate developer would look at the hopeless rental situation and not consider scrapping his own buildings for profit.

Higgins did it with the Farwell Building, as have dozens of others who were lucky enough, and rich enough to own such properties.

How Wayne County ever decided it was a good idea to give up ownership of this building in the first place is beyond me. Just another stupid decision by an equally stupid county government.