Philadelphia grew for first time in nearly 60 years

[iheartthed]

Yeah, so how is this a Detroit issue? Because Philadelphia has been shrinking for as long as Detroit has, albeit at a slower rate. So if it is possible for Philly to stop its 60 year population decline, what will it take for Detroit to grow again?

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ho...e_bigger_.html

[Detroitnerd]

All we have to do is become a suburb of New York City.

[iheartthed]

All we have to do is become a suburb of New York City.

Let's attach ourselves to Chicago. We can be known as the Second Suburb. Get it?

[Detroitnerd]

Acela gets passengers from New York's Penn Station to Philly in 50 minutes. We'd need a bullet train to do that!

[Traxus]

Not to drown anyone in a pit of irony, but I know a few people who have moved to Philly. I don't find the place half bad myself, the legal street art really livens the place up.

[iheartthed]

Acela gets passengers from New York's Penn Station to Philly in 50 minutes. We'd need a bullet train to do that!

That President Obama sure is a visionary:

http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/648

[Detroitnerd]

Sigh. That's a neat program. Still, I'd really much rather have a link with Toledo!

[pffft]

Philadelphia never entirely lost its middle class, which helped..[[unlike Detroit). But the crime problem is intense, hence the nickname "Killadelphia"...

[Danny]

The census bureau for Philadelphia's population increase is true. New jobs and heavy family ethic cause the city of brotherly love to reach its the 1.4 million mark.

Philadelphia has a well balance black/white population. The city used to be mostly white for over 300 years now it little bit black with a fast growing Cuban community. Philadelphia's regionalization and tourism put it on the map. Detroit can do the same if the people just put away their 'no hope' attitude.

[ghettopalmetto]

Philadelphia was able to accommodate this population growth because they didn't spend millions of dollars turning neighborhoods into scenes from "Mad Max".

Oh yeah, that whole thing where the city is walkable doesn't make it a bad place to live, either.

[bailey]

Philadelphia was able to accommodate this population growth because they didn't spend millions of dollars turning neighborhoods into scenes from "Mad Max".

Oh yeah, that whole thing where the city is walkable doesn't make it a bad place to live, either.

Might also have something to do with Philly having 3 major research institutions [[one an Ivy ) and about 15 other colleges and universities there. IIRC Metro Philly area has the highest concentration of colleges and college students in the country.

Take away that massive economic driver, and I bet you'd get Detroit....no matter how walkable.

[ghettopalmetto]

Might also have something to do with Philly having 3 major research institutions [[one an Ivy ) and about 15 other colleges and universities there. IIRC Metro Philly area has the highest concentration of colleges and college students in the country.

Take away that massive economic driver, and I bet you'd get Detroit....no matter how walkable.

Yet those three major research universities weren't able to stem Philly's decline for the past 60 years, yet somehow they're the reason for a gain in population?

[bailey]

Yet those three major research universities weren't able to stem Philly's decline for the past 60 years, yet somehow they're the reason for a gain in population?

I'll behave myself, as to keep my otherwise legitimate post worth reading...

I'm not making any excuse. Just pointing out the glaring omission in your post.

[Detroitnerd]

The problem with Detroit is that the people with the money here don't feel they need the city. These sorts of people will always default to a cornucopia of conflicting causes for Detroit's decline.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Philadelphia never entirely lost its middle class, which helped..[[unlike Detroit). But the crime problem is intense, hence the nickname "Killadelphia"...

Philly is across the Delaware River from Camden, New Jersey isn't it?? There's part of the problem there.

[iheartthed]

IIRC Metro Philly area has the highest concentration of colleges and college students in the country.

I'm pretty sure that would be Boston.

[cman710]

Philly is across the Delaware River from Camden, New Jersey isn't it?? There's part of the problem there.

Yes, Camden, NJ is directly across the river. Camden has virtually no middle class, and has incredible problems that mirror those faced in the neighborhoods in many areas in Detroit.

Philadelphia, by the way, has virtually the same land area as Detroit. The experiences of the two cities are very different, however.

[Traxus]

The high concentration of colleges, and walkability are some of many reasons 20 somethings find the city attractive [[the subway/bus system helps too). It also costs about the same as Detroit, but has the proximity to New York going for it. Philly is just in a better position to grow, they've been there for quite awhile.

[iheartthed]

Philadelphia, by the way, has virtually the same land area as Detroit. The experiences of the two cities are very different, however.

Not really... I don't have the patience to dig through the stats again, but Philly has suffered from many of the same issues as Detroit. In fact, of cities in the "very large" category, I'd say that Philly comes closest to sharing the same problems as Detroit.

Also, being across the water from Camden, NJ has absolutely nothing to do with Philly's crime rate. That's like trying to blame Highland Park or Royal Oak Twp for Detroit's high crime rate.

[bailey]

I'm pretty sure that would be Boston.

You're right, i stand corrected, per Google.... Philly is not #1.

Philadelphia is one of the largest college towns in the United States and has the second-largest student concentration on the East Coast with over 120,000 college and university students enrolled within the city and nearly 300,000 in the metropolitan area. There are over 80 colleges, universities, trade, and specialty schools in the Philadelphia region. The city contains three major research universities: the University of Pennsylvania, Drexel University, and Temple University. Other institutions of higher learning within the city's borders include Saint Joseph's University, La Salle University, Peirce College, University of the Sciences in Philadelphia, The University of the Arts, Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts, the Curtis Institute of Music, Thomas Jefferson University, Moore College of Art and Design, The Art Institute of Philadelphia, Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, The Restaurant School at Walnut Hill College, Philadelphia University, Chestnut Hill College, Holy Family University, the Community College of Philadelphia and Messiah College Philadelphia Campus.

Philadelphia's famous Pennsylvania Main Line and western suburbs are home to other notable colleges and universities including Villanova University, Bryn Mawr College, Haverford College, and Swarthmore College.

The city is a national center of law because of the University of Pennsylvania Law School, Drexel University Earle Mack School of Law, Temple University Beasley School of Law, Rutgers University School of Law - Camden, Villanova University School of Law, and Widener University School of Law. Additionally, the headquarters of the American Law Institute is located in the city.

But yeah, other than that, it's just like Detroit.

[cman710]

Not really... I don't have the patience to dig through the stats again, but Philly has suffered from many of the same issues as Detroit. In fact, of cities in the "very large" category, I'd say that Philly comes closest to sharing the same problems as Detroit.

Also, being across the water from Camden, NJ has absolutely nothing to do with Philly's crime rate. That's like trying to blame Highland Park or Royal Oak Twp for Detroit's high crime rate.

While Philadelphia has suffered many of the same issues of Detroit, that does not mean that the cities do not have different histories and experiences. Simply because they are similar in land area and once were similar in population does not make the cities similar. Of course, the cities do have some similarities, but there are far more significant differences, some of which include:

1) Detroit grew later than Philadelphia, and on a different economic base. Philadelphia reached 500,000 people prior to 1860, whereas Detroit did not reach such heights until just after 1920. Likewise, Philadelphia reached 1 million people just prior to 1890, whereas Detroit did not pass the 1 million mark until shortly after 1920. Philadelphia had more gradual growth, whereas Detroit really rose on modern manufacturing.

2) Philadelphia has historically had a more diversified economy than Detroit.

3) As one poster has demonstrated, Philadelphia has had a larger set of "anchor institutions" [[hospitals, universities, etc.) than Detroit, helping the city weather downturns.

4) Philadelphia has been the destination of far more immigrants than Detroit.

5) Philadelphia is not as racially segregated as Detroit.

6) Philadelphia benefits from being located between Washington, D.C. and New York, the former of which has experienced incredibly dramatic growth during the past 40+ years, and the latter of which has been growing significantly for 20+ years. In contrast, Detroit forms the major city in its metro region, relatively unconnected to any other major city

I think those are enough reasons to support my point for now.

On a final note, a different poster made the comment regarding crime in Camden and Philadelphia being related. Of course they are not related.

[Detroitnerd]

Philly is racially segregated, but it's "block by block" -- not running along municipal boundaries as it does here.

[iheartthed]

You're right, i stand corrected, per Google.... Philly is not #1.




But yeah, other than that, it's just like Detroit.

You quote a wikipedia entry to prove some point about Philly and Detroit being dissimilar? Have you ever even been to Philly? I'm there several times a year. I know what it looks like.

Detroit also has several colleges and/or universities, and even more in the surrounding areas [[one of which is a very highly ranked university). In fact, the only school that really differentiates Philadelphia proper's university stock from Detroit's is Penn [[and it is an Ivy League school... so duh, right?). And outside of University City [[and not very far outside of it, I must stress), Philly's neighborhoods appear to be just as depressed as many of the neighborhoods in Detroit. Granted, you don't find areas depopulated to the extent that some sections of Detroit [[well, maybe in North Philadelphia), but Philly gets rough too.

[Detroitnerd]

You quote a wikipedia entry to prove some point about Philly and Detroit being dissimilar? Have you ever even been to Philly? I'm there several times a year. I know what it looks like.

I don't think you should take Bailey so seriously. It's not like he's doing serious research or anything. He just enjoys pissing on Detroit from his remove.

[EastsideAl]

Philly has, and has always had, a very different economy from Detroit's, which is the main factor. It also held onto enough of its urban middle class to keep the city from tipping into a complete slide. 3 of the reasons for that are, a large business/office community downtown that did not flee to the suburbs, a mass transit system that enables large numbers of people to get into and out of the central city, and around the core area, without a car, and the preservation of a lot of attractive historic housing, despite calls to "urban renew" it out of existence a few decades ago.

In Detroit, we never had most people working downtown, but in manufacturing facilities spread throughout the city and the area, none of our largest companies were ever headquartered downtown [[until GM's move to Ren Cen), and many of our secondary and support businesses fled to the suburbs at the first sign of problems long ago. Mass transit is of course largely non-existent, and we destroyed many of our beautiful old neighborhoods, or simply left them to rot away like Brush Park. Instead of building a walkable city like Philly, with nice transit friendly older neighborhoods and active street-level business centers, we just kept tearing stuff down so that we could park yet more cars - even as the number of cars coming into the city was declining.