Climate Change: The Way Forward

Rideron · December-01-09, 07:53 AM

Opportunity is knocking loudly for the climate-change industry lobby in the post-climategate era; but it's leaders are too subborn to hear it.

For years the global warming movement has had to counter a skeptical public in the face of real world experience of increasingly cold winters, shorter summers, and increasing heating costs.

Now, instead of also finding a way to diminish and marginalize the leaking of background emails from CRU showing manipulation of data over years to produce findings that support global warming; the climate change lobby should embrace reality instead of fighting it.

Now is the time to admit you were wrong all along.

That the problem is NOT global warming, it's global freezing!

You simply had the charts upside down and didn't know it!!

Sure, you may pay a small price by being seen as some as mere fickle opportunists tailoring your message to suit whatever data happens along; but at least you won't have to struggle embarrasingly to blatantly defend phony evidence.

**elganned** · December-01-09, 08:13 AM

*sigh* Global warming is real. Our part in it is real. The "leaked" emails from a handful of unprofessional researchers doesn't change that.

Save these posts. Revisit them when Manhattan is underwater.

**johnsmith** · December-01-09, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by elganned

Revisit them when Manhattan is underwater.

Would that be a bad thing?

Yes, global warming is definitely real, we have vast Great Lakes filled with melted glacier water. The horror!

**elganned** · December-01-09, 09:17 AM

And imagine, if you will, what Michigan would look like if Lake Huron rose some 20 feet. Goodbye, Bay City, Saginaw, Port Huron...

**rb336** · December-01-09, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Rideron

For years the global warming movement has had to counter a skeptical public in the face of real world experience of increasingly cold winters, shorter summers, and increasing heating costs.

hmmm...

care to share? global temps have been...up. I have posted to actual science showing that fact.

oh well, truth has a liberal bias, which is why the right constantly needs to "redefine" terms, grasp straws and, frankly, make shit up

**elganned** · December-01-09, 09:25 AM

And why they insist that dogs aren't four-legged because their uncle's barber's cousin's sister-in-law saw one that had three legs one time...

**johnsmith** · December-01-09, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by elganned

And imagine, if you will, what Michigan would look like if Lake Huron rose some 20 feet. Goodbye, Bay City, Saginaw, Port Huron...

I can imagine that. My property would be closer to water.

**oladub** · December-01-09, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by elganned

And imagine, if you will, what Michigan would look like if Lake Huron rose some 20 feet. Goodbye, Bay City, Saginaw, Port Huron...

Are you suggesting that melting glaciers would raise the ocean level to a level higher than the present Great Lakes or are you suggesting that global warming specifically cause by human activity will cause more rain around the Great Lakes causing lakeshore flooding? Just asking because I've never heard that the melting of the polar and Greenland ice caps will raise lake levels.

**rb336** · December-01-09, 11:58 AM

melting of the arctic ice cap won't do a thing to raise ocean levels [[just like the melting ice doesn't cause your glass of water to overflow). The only real danger for significant sea level increases is the greenland and antarctic land ice

ziggyselbin · December-01-09, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by elganned

*sigh* Global warming is real. Our part in it is real. The "leaked" emails from a handful of unprofessional researchers doesn't change that.

Save these posts. Revisit them when Manhattan is underwater.

I know of no other way then to just say it; you are a liar.

One of the unprofessional researchers was on the Diane Rehm show yesterday a fellow named Mann from Penn state.............of course the emails go very little attention.

**rb336** · December-01-09, 12:13 PM

where is the lie?

want to hear something funny/ironic/moronic?

Rushiepoo compares these email guys to the tobacco industry and their whole "no one has ever proven smoking is bad" campaign.

as I have demonstrated here, in depth, the same group that created that campaign for the tobacco industry [[Heartland Institute) is behind virtually ALL climate change "skeptic" articles/blogs/etc

**Sstashmoo** · December-01-09, 12:26 PM

Ok, let's just say for the sake of argument, man's activity and possibly natural influence is causing the planet's temp to rise. What do you plan on doing about it? We aren't going to stop using fossil and natural fuels. Countries like China are not going to curb their emissions.

Regarding melting glaciers, Research recently pointed to higher salinity [[salt) values in the ice. And is causing some areas to melt faster than others. Instead of temperature patterns, it may be patterns of salinity. Again, what do you plan on doing about it? We are 300 million of 6 billion. 1/20th of the worlds polluters.

**Diehard** · December-01-09, 01:17 PM

*sigh*
Out come all the pseudo-scientists who are sure, positively sure, that whatever suits their politics is the absolute truth, and any conflicting evidence is a grand conspiracy by a bunch of liars out to ruin us all.

Can't we take the politics out of this and let the researchers do their job?

**rb336** · December-01-09, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Regarding melting glaciers, Research recently pointed to higher salinity [[salt) values in the ice. And is causing some areas to melt faster than others. Instead of temperature patterns, it may be patterns of salinity. Again, what do you plan on doing about it? We are 300 million of 6 billion. 1/20th of the worlds polluters.

and what research might that be? New sea ice has, and always will have, higher salinity because the water freezes around brine [[duh) and over time, numerous forces like gravitation, flushing, etc, removes the brine. If you have some research that actually points to the salinity of sea ice as a cause of faster melt, rather than the faster melt being from a higher concentration of new ice to old ice, [[which is a result of the older ice going buhbye) i'd like to read it

**elganned** · December-01-09, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Ok, let's just say for the sake of argument, man's activity and possibly natural influence is causing the planet's temp to rise. What do you plan on doing about it? We aren't going to stop using fossil and natural fuels. Countries like China are not going to curb their emissions.

Regarding melting glaciers, Research recently pointed to higher salinity [[salt) values in the ice. And is causing some areas to melt faster than others. Instead of temperature patterns, it may be patterns of salinity. Again, what do you plan on doing about it? We are 300 million of 6 billion. 1/20th of the worlds polluters.

Two words: Death Panels. It's the only affordable option.

**elganned** · December-01-09, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by ziggyselbin

I know of no other way then to just say it; you are a liar.

Watch the name-calling, Skippy, or I'll have to tell Dad you're being naughty.

Any researcher who "fudges" the numbers is unprofessional. Period. That does not mean by implication that all researchers are fudging the numbers, or that all researchers are unprofessional.

ccbatson · December-01-09, 05:06 PM

In this case...either by coercion, duress, misinterpretation, or flat out fraud, the manmade global warming alarmists are ALL unprofessional and criminal [[fraud).

ziggyselbin · December-01-09, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by elganned

Watch the name-calling, Skippy, or I'll have to tell Dad you're being naughty.

Any researcher who "fudges" the numbers is unprofessional. Period. That does not mean by implication that all researchers are fudging the numbers, or that all researchers are unprofessional.

Does not change the fact that these emails do serious damage to the credibility of these scientists and the validity of climate change.

**jerrytimes** · December-01-09, 08:01 PM

In my mind global warming is a scam. The last few years in MI have been colder than I remember. The gobal temperature has dropped . And if you think that the temperature of the earth is a constant you are crazy. It changes and since they started monitoring this [[in the early 1900's I believe) there have always been shifts in the average temperature.

Also, like the other guy said, if the glaciers melt things won't flood. Isn't the mass of frozen water larger than the mass of water in it's normal state? It's is, so anyone with this whole flooding BS needs to learn facts. If the glaciers melt, no flooding will occur.

**Sstashmoo** · December-01-09, 08:18 PM

Quote: "Two words: Death Panels. It's the only affordable option."

The Eskimos send their elderly out on the ice...wait a minute, this could somehow be a remedy for receding glaciers. Replace the ice with the uninsurable.

Now there is a healthcare plan we can all embrace.

**elganned** · December-01-09, 08:23 PM

Like I said: Death Panels. The answer is so simple...

**Jimaz** · December-01-09, 09:01 PM

Isn't the mass of frozen water larger than the mass of water in it's normal state? It's is, ...

You shouldn't have posted that.

**elganned** · December-01-09, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

Also, like the other guy said, if the glaciers melt things won't flood. Isn't the mass of frozen water larger than the mass of water in it's normal state? It's is, so anyone with this whole flooding BS needs to learn facts. If the glaciers melt, no flooding will occur.

Perch a block of ice on the edge of a bathtub full of water. As long as the ice remains frozen, the water level in the bathtub doesn't change. If the ice melts, the water runs into the bathtub and the level goes up.

Next question.

**Jimaz** · December-01-09, 09:14 PM

The mass of any given quantity of water remains constant regardless of its temperature or whether it's in a liquid or solid state.

Its density may change. Try to keep up.

ziggyselbin · December-01-09, 09:57 PM

Here is some more shit from one of the deniers from I think the Univ of Phoenix or maybe it's the same institute in Helsinki that has the cure for baldness..........................NOT.......... it is from someone at M.I.T.. Now I will be amused by elganned as he/she attempts to make us all appear stupid and crazy as he/ehe tries to mitigate a pile of crap aka/ the damaging emails.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...917025400.html