Ideas to Make over Cobo Center

[sg9018]

The Free press has a another great artilce on ideas to make over Cobo Center. the Regional authority is open to plans for radical change. The Free Press made a fantasy idea of the news Cobo Center. See it here,
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/m...rams=Id=147561
Link to story here,
http://www.freep.com/article/2009112...so-far-fetched
What should be done with Cobo?

Grand Cobo ideas not so far-fetched

Regional authority is open to plans for radical change
By JOHN GALLAGHER
Free Press columnist
If we were designing Cobo Center from scratch today, it almost certainly would look radically different from the gray warehouse that now hosts Detroit's premier annual auto show.
We'd banish those featureless gray walls that enclose Cobo, replacing them with soaring glass panels that create a sense of arrival and architectural excitement.
Cobo's rooftop parking lot?
We'd replace it with a green living roof with grass, sunflowers, even trees.
Detroit's riverfront may as well not be there for all we can enjoy it from the current Cobo. We'd reconnect Cobo to the riverfront with glass walls and balconies and walkways from Cobo to the RiverWalk.
And the People Mover line that snakes through Cobo now? We'd upgrade the transit options with a rapid rail connector to the city's planned Woodward Avenue line, and maybe throw in rail links at major downtown hotels.
This wish list for Cobo may sound fanciful to many. But it's not so far-fetched, after all.
Everything is on the table
A new regional authority that took over Cobo in September is even now mulling how to spend $280 million allotted for renovations and expansions.
Larry Alexander, chairman of the Detroit Regional Convention Facility Authority, said the authority hopes to gather as many concepts for renovating and expanding Cobo as possible before it makes a decision.
Everything is on the table.
"Depending on how far the dollars will go, sure, why not? Unless we ask the question and go out and see what creativity and ingenuity might create, we don't know," said Alexander, who is also president and chief executive of the Detroit Metro Convention & Visitors Bureau.
Cobo, built in 1960 and expanded in 1989, has so many needs today that the money could go in a flash. At the very least, the authority must fix the leaky roofs and mechanical systems and somehow add another 300,000 or so square feet of exhibition space to Cobo's existing 700,000.
Priming the pump
But let's not confuse short-term fixes with the long-term ideal. The plain truth is that Cobo, as it exists today, delivers little of the civic and architectural jolt offered by newer convention centers in Boston, San Diego, Washington, D.C., and New York.
In 2008, then-Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick proposed converting Cobo Arena -- the circular building that is part of Cobo Center -- to exhibition space. That's a quick fix to add a lot more space for the North American International Auto Show. But a lot more ideas may bubble up once the authority issues its request for proposals, probably in early 2010.
So today, we try to prime the pump with our own list of suggestions for a new and improved Cobo.
We derived these ideas from talking with various architects and convention center officials.
'Alive with activity'
These suggestions, and the accompanying illustration on the cover of News+Views, are not meant to offer detailed technical programs. Rather, these are big-picture, blue-sky sorts of ideas to generate thinking.
If nothing else, they show that the gap between the current reality and the hoped-for ideal is huge.
First, everyone agrees Cobo needs some more architectural pop.
Most newer centers achieve that with soaring spaces and transparent glass walls, such as the Javits Center in New York and the Boston Convention Center.
And there needs to be a more retail and entertainment options either in the center or immediately adjacent to it.
"The base of this thing should be alive with activity," said Art Smith, design principal at the Southfield architectural firm Harley Ellis Devereaux.
Alexander agreed.
"It has to have a sense of arrival, something appealing to the eye," he said.
Going green
Then, too, the possibilities seem great for employing all the latest energy-saving technology, said Carl Roehling, president and chief executive of the Detroit architectural firm SmithGroup.
"A new Cobo should reflect where our auto industry is going," Roehling said. "It should certainly be sustainable and green, a model of low-energy use. To the extent that we can use renewable technologies and alternative energy technologies, we should certainly do that."
A new convention hotel either attached to Cobo [[as in our illustration) or immediately across the street would be helpful. So would transit connections that go beyond what the People Mover stop at Cobo offers now.
"You look at other cities, and their convention centers are huge civic projects," Smith said. "They're not sort of stuck off to the side. In a lot of respects, Cobo Hall is a huge warehouse sitting on a prime piece of real estate."
Contact JOHN GALLAGHER: 313-222-5173 or gallagher@freepress.com
Related content
While we're at it


With all due respect to Albert E. Cobo, should the center that bares his name maybe bare someone else's? Or maybe take on a moniker that's not tagged to a famous Detroiter?
Cobo served as mayor of Detroit from 1950 to 1957 -- at the height of the city's postwar redesign of downtown and when the city was at its population peak. He died in office. The convention center was named in his honor.
The name Cobo has its pluses -- short, distinctive, established as a brand.
But are there other names that could serve the city better?

[buildingsofdetroit]

Wow, and I thought the current Cobo was ugly. That thing is hideous. Really, really, really hideous. Though, green roof, etc. is nice.

[Stosh]

Wow, and I thought the current Cobo was ugly. That thing is hideous. Really, really, really hideous. Though, green roof, etc. is nice.

Looks like a big blue pineapple.

And a green roof is good as well, although that would cut the current parking lot. The roof would easily support the weight of a green roof, being engineered for cars. Drainage can be engineered into it as well.

And looking at the article.... who the hell does their editing?

Seriously.

should the center that bares his name maybe bare someone else's?

[Gistok]

The "Cobo Cartoon Makeover" is quite colorful... and garish....

A few points... yes the TETRIS facade on Washington Blvd. is "lipstick on a pig" as far as architecture goes. But from the inside the soaring Cobo atrium is rather nice. The first floor does after all look out over the downtown cityscape.

I hope that the Cobo expansion does include the use of Cobo Arena as exhibition space. That soaring rotunda interior is light years ahead of the long rectangular slabs that make up the interior of most convention halls.

As for the riverfront facade... can't blame that one on the city... an 1990s failed bond initiative prevented the remodeling/renovations of the riverfront side of the building [[including ballrooms and adjoining hallways). That's still the original Cobo of 1960. This area has a lot of potential however.

And as for a green roof... I'm sorry but parking is a better use of that space than another eco-solution. If folks want the rainwater to make its' way naturally into the river... then stick a downspout pipe over to the wetlands at Milliken [[Tricentennial) Park and let them clean the water. Parking is a more pressing concern for Cobo.

And the north side of the building being a fortress.... all one has to do is look at the other side of the street to see that making a glass wall looking out to parking structures and windowless warehouses makes little sense.

If ever there was a case for a makeover of Cobo it's the horrifically ugly west side of the building with parking//freeway ramps, loading docks and moonscape skyways.... yuk!! Can't get any uglier than that side of the building...

... and one last thing... do we really need another hotel right now?? Highly unlikely with the oversupply when the 3 casino hotels, Book-Cadillac and Fort Shelby hotels came online. Let's worry about the Ponchartrain first...

[Stosh]

I think that adding a green roof would present an opportunity for the center to add insulation on the center itself. The standard today is R-38 or greater on any roof. I'd bet that there's little to no insulation up there now. Either way, they could benefit from throwing some up there, or in the interior of the building. This would give the building a better energy expense ratio at the very least.

On top of that, a green roof can provide up to 25% savings in summer cooling. Not so much in the winter.

[gnome]

This is the kind of "blue sky" thinking that is done before dollars are allotted to a project. One creates a wish list, then pares back when financial realities present themselves ... but money has already been assigned to the Cobo rathole... time for dreaming and wishing is long gone. This article in the Freep is sure to create resentment when the end project is delivered ... which will include new loading dock, signage, some carpet, a new escalator and some hot tar ...

that's it. and in two years when the RedWings bolt from the Joe expect more begging for money to tear down the Joe in redesign Cobo.

AND... who is the fellow that designed the proposed hotel to look like a butt plug? It would only be better if it spun around.

[Russix]

It's Chia COBO!

[MichMatters]

Isn't the pre-lim, brainstormed "rendering"/visualization a creation of the Free Press and not the authority? Anyway, I do like that they are thinking big, instead of offering tweaks. The region has often been saddled with a can't-do attitude when it comes to thinking big.

BTW, does anyone remember a 60-story hotel cooked-up by some local architect [[was it Rossetti) years ago for the location of Cobo Arena? The plan was called "One Cobo Center", and it was a classy, all-glass rectangle that'd have shown it's thin side to the river. I had the rendering, but lost it. I remember seeing it back earlier in the decade.

[wolverine]

FYI, the 'rendering' is just a way to get people thinking. It merely emphasizes features they intend to add to this building in a graphical form that fits will on a letter sized print out. In no way what you see will this evolve into an actual conceptual design.

[MichMatters]

You've got to admit, though, even as conceptualizations go that this one is pretty bad. It's as if they almost went out of their way to make their idea look as freaky as possible. It looks grade-schoolish [[i.e. "Yeah, I wants lots of fins! Ooo...ooo...and flags, tons of flags...oh, and a giant pineapple!")

[d.mcc]

I really think people aught to look at Massimiliano Fuksas' FieraMilano as an example of taking the time to do things right. I actually think this is one situation where the current Cobo Center can be repaired, but a new center might be in order.

[gumby]

Instead of a new hotel why not utilize the vacant one across the street as a new Cobo Hotel and connect it with a skybridge?

[Gistok]

Instead of a new hotel why not utilize the vacant one across the street as a new Cobo Hotel and connect it with a skybridge?

Absolutely spot on!! Especially since the infrastructure was built into the 1989 remodeling of Cobo to allow for the skybridge.

I still can't understand why anyone would want to put a glass wall onto the Congress Ave. side of Cobo... the view of the large parking structure and windowless warehouse north of Congress is not exactly inspiring.

Can anyone find a link with the 2 year old renderings of converting Cobo Arena into convention space? I Googled with no results. I really liked the soaring rotunda space converted into exhibition space... certainly beats the vast rectangular halls that most convention space consists of.

[d.mcc]

Absolutely spot on!! Especially since the infrastructure was built into the 1989 remodeling of Cobo to allow for the skybridge.

I still can't understand why anyone would want to put a glass wall onto the Congress Ave. side of Cobo... the view of the large parking structure and windowless warehouse north of Congress is not exactly inspiring.

Can anyone find a link with the 2 year old renderings of converting Cobo Arena into convention space? I Googled with no results. I really liked the soaring rotunda space converted into exhibition space... certainly beats the vast rectangular halls that most convention space consists of.

Why not develop and design something that really captures the scope of the project? I often feel like Detroit has settled architecturally over the years. Cobo is no exception

[ghettopalmetto]

The Freep is correct in that Cobo is an architectural piece of shit. Their ideas, while far from novel, are the kind of thinking that is needed to push Detroit toward a more prosperous future. The proposals are not without challenges, though:

A green roof can impose FAR greater loads on the roof structure than the parking deck. By code, parking decks need to be designed to support a live load of 50 psf. Six inches of soil can weigh more than that. An evaluation by an engineer would need to be conducted first.

The rapid transit idea, while sound in principle, is stupid as proposed. The Freep makes it sound like there will be Jetsons-type pods to take people between Cobo and hotels, as well as the Woodward light rail line. There used to be this thing called "walking", that the Freep doesn't address at all.

The emphasis on the river tends to be on "views", as in, "postcard shots". It's the whole "redevelopment through inspiration" philosophy that Hank the Deuce channeled to build the Ren Cen in the 1970s. If that philosophy worked, then Detroit would be in terrific shape. The need for the building to interact directly with the riverfront needs to be addressed, or any glass wall is just going to leave a dead zone akin to the Winter Garden at the Ren Cen. The river-facing side of the building needs to be broken into a finer texture to embrace people on foot in front of the building, not cameras across the river. Scale is incredibly important.

[iheartthed]

The Javitz Center? Not a good example. That place sucks worse than Cobo. Pittsburgh has one of the best convention centers that I've seen.

[Stosh]

A green roof can impose FAR greater loads on the roof structure than the parking deck. By code, parking decks need to be designed to support a live load of 50 psf. Six inches of soil can weigh more than that. An evaluation by an engineer would need to be conducted first.

This seems to disagree with your statement above. Of course an engineer would have to be consulted. And I think a far lesser amount of soil would be needed anyway, the cooling effect isn't that much needed in this climate as others may be.

The growing medium, typically made up of a mineral-based mixture of sand, gravel, crushed brick, leca, peat, organic matter, and some soil, varies in depth between 5-15 cm [[2-6") with a weight increase of between 72.6-169.4 kg / m [[16-35 lbs/sf) when fully saturated.[[1) Due to the shallowness of the growing medium and the extreme desert-like microclimate on many roofs, plants must be low and hardy, typically alpine, dryland, or indigenous. Typically the plants are watered and fertilized only until they are established, and after the first year, maintenance consists of two visits a year for weeding of invasive species, safety and membrane inspections.

[ghettopalmetto]

Don't forget, Stosh, that soil isn't going to be the only object placed on the roof. Are there HVAC units that need to be supported? Is the roof going to accommodate people? Is there any additional "structure" that would be placed on the roof [[I've seen green roofs with manmade "hills" on them.)?

I never said it couldn't be done.

[d.mcc]

Don't forget, Stosh, that soil isn't going to be the only object placed on the roof. Are there HVAC units that need to be supported? Is the roof going to accommodate people? Is there any additional "structure" that would be placed on the roof [[I've seen green roofs with manmade "hills" on them.)?

I never said it couldn't be done.

GP is right, a 2-6" substrate level is bare minimum. Growing medium is another factor. Low and hardy is one way to go, but one of the benefits of a green roof, is creating a sense of place for the person interacting with it. Most buildings that have roof gardens, green roofs, and other variations usually allow access to the roof for a gathering space. Chicago has some fine examples.

[Detroitnerd]

Just more of today's faddish glitter to adorn a decaying 1970s architectural turd.

Monkey bars, anyone?

[d.mcc]

Just more of today's faddish glitter to adorn a decaying 1970s architectural turd.

Monkey bars, anyone?

Are you suggesting green roofs are a fad?

[Gistok]

Just more of today's faddish glitter to adorn a decaying 1970s architectural turd.

Monkey bars, anyone?

Although Cobo Arena and riverfront side are 1960... the rest is 1989.... but you do make a point. Back in the late 80's the TETRIS look was cool... not all modernism withstands the test of time well....

One day the Frank Gehry "crushed trashcan" look may get a different response... such as "what were they thinking when they built that?"

... and then there's the Scottish Parliament Building... 10 times over budget and 3 years late...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ed...2006-04-29.jpg

Not quite sure where the Scottish Parliament Building ends and the rest of Edinburgh begins...

But one equation about cutting edge buildings is often the case....

INNOVATION + COST OVERRUNS = MAINTENANCE NIGHTMARE

[Stosh]

GP is right, a 2-6" substrate level is bare minimum. Growing medium is another factor. Low and hardy is one way to go, but one of the benefits of a green roof, is creating a sense of place for the person interacting with it. Most buildings that have roof gardens, green roofs, and other variations usually allow access to the roof for a gathering space. Chicago has some fine examples.

There is access to the roof now, I don't see why they would limit it afterward. A garden area would be nice. Grass and native plantings.

The picture below shows the substrate levels. Subtract the structural support, which is already present, and the layers aren't that massive.

[d.mcc]

The picture below shows the substrate levels. Subtract the structural support, which is already present, and the layers aren't that massive.

You cannot just place an intricate green roofing system on an unreinforced structure. The added weight drastically changes the Dead Loads, and puts a further strain on Live Load capability.

[d.mcc]

Not quite sure where the Scottish Parliament Building ends and the rest of Edinburgh begins... [[

Not always a bad thing...