Swiss voters back ban on minarets

**d.mcc** · November-29-09, 12:12 PM

From the BBC:

Swiss voters have supported a referendum proposal to ban the building of minarets, official results show.

More than 57% of voters and 22 out of 26 cantons - or provinces - voted in favour of the ban.

The proposal had been put forward by the Swiss People's Party, [[SVP), the largest party in parliament, which says minarets are a sign of Islamisation.

Link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8385069.stm

lilpup · November-29-09, 01:10 PM

I heard a discussion about this on the BBC last night. A short time ago it was made illegal to display Christian crosses in public areas so some felt this was a tit for tat. However a Muslim scholar from Oxford stated that minarets, while a part of Islamic history, are just an outmoded means of communication rather than a part of the religion. He felt that Muslims in countries that do not impede the right to practice need to be respectful of their host countries' traditions and assimilate more rather than try to recreate the conditions existing in the country from which they emigrated. He felt the tendency to not assimilate enough was what really causes tension between Muslims and others in Western cultures. Most of Switzerland's Muslims are immigrants from the Balkans who fled the warring there.

ccbatson · November-29-09, 08:25 PM

Why are secular nations even considering building religious facilities anyway?

Stosh · November-29-09, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Why are secular nations even considering building religious facilities anyway?

Who said they were? Read the article.

ccbatson · November-29-09, 08:35 PM

A referendum to ban something implies government involvement.

ccbatson · November-29-09, 08:37 PM

Also, the article speaks of "applications" to build new minarets...further evidence of government involvement.

lilpup · November-29-09, 08:41 PM

The government is involved in the permitting process, nothing more.

ccbatson · November-29-09, 08:45 PM

Where I come from, a proposed government ban on something that is clearly religious is an over involvement of government.

It is not as if they are speaking of banning the construction of residences, or any other private secular structure.

lilpup · November-29-09, 10:02 PM

That's the argument - what do the minarets represent? They are traditionally used by Muslims for communication purposes but they are not specifically part of the religion.

**Gistok** · November-29-09, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Where I come from, a proposed government ban on something that is clearly religious is an over involvement of government.

It is not as if they are speaking of banning the construction of residences, or any other private secular structure.

Go ahead and try opening a storefront church or synagogue in a strip mall in your neck of the woods.. see if there's any government involvement in stopping you...

**1KielsonDrive** · November-29-09, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

A referendum to ban something implies government involvement.

Oh Bats, there you go again.....and again......

**1KielsonDrive** · November-29-09, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

A referendum to ban something implies government involvement.

Whatever the implication is to you Bats, it's likely the complete opposite to the rest of the planet.

**1KielsonDrive** · November-29-09, 11:03 PM

And while you're at it Bats, why are you living in a place that has a government? Why don't you try the South Pole, or some island in the far reaches of an ocean? Or, maybe a militia outpost in Idaho?

**Lowell** · November-30-09, 08:06 PM

The vote of the Swiss is shameful and alarming. A mosque in Geneva has been vandalized three times in the recent months. Substitute mosque for synagogue, substitute to today's Switzerland for 30's Germany and you can see where this takes my mind.

Those voters may think they are doing something about radical Islam. And they are; they're ~fueling~ it.

ccbatson · November-30-09, 08:07 PM

Think about it...if the Swiss government kept its' nose out of this, there would not be an issue here.

**Lowell** · November-30-09, 09:39 PM

The Swiss government opposed it recognizing the international damage it will bring. It was a popular initiative driven to a far right party.
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...5AT4M820091130

The Wiki on it is instructive too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret...in_Switzerland

**Diehard** · November-30-09, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

Think about it...if the Swiss government kept its' nose out of this, there would not be an issue here.

Then you would accuse the liberal Swiss government of being a bunch of liberals who are too liberally tolerant of radical Muslims, like you did in the Germany immigration thread a few days ago:

November 25th, 2009, 07:40 PM: "Liberalism allows for the abuses and liberties taken by Muslims with a radical agenda immigrating to liberal european countries."

Liberal liberal liberal, blah blah blah.

ccbatson · December-01-09, 05:26 PM

??? I have no wish for religious persecution anywhere. I have never expressed any thoughts that could make anyone conclude that either....you "assume" too much.

**Diehard** · December-01-09, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by ccbatson

??? I have no wish for religious persecution anywhere. I have never expressed any thoughts that could make anyone conclude that either....you "assume" too much.

Oh, so this is completely different. You're calling out "religious persecution" - which is a real stretch, considering they're not jailing Muslims and throwing them to the lions, just prohibiting a certain architectural structure that's new to the Swiss landscape. Sorry, my bad.
I must have misunderstood what you wrote here:
"November 25th, 2009, 07:40 PM: "Liberalism allows for the abuses and liberties taken by Muslims with a radical agenda immigrating to liberal european countries."
"Abuses"... "radical agenda..." How could anyone misinterpret that? You fully support Muslims immigrating to European countries and will stand up for their rights when they're being persecuted. Got it.

**elganned** · December-01-09, 08:38 PM

Actually, I'm with Lowell on this one. Although minarets are not strictly part of the religion of Islam, they are highly symbolic of same--like church steeples are not strictly part of Christianity, but are a tradition so closely aligned with it as to be virtually inseperable.

I can't begin to envision the horror and outrage that would be unleashed if they enacted a ban on church steeples.

**Diehard** · December-02-09, 01:41 AM

I don't know what to think about this. On one hand, minarets are traditional and much like church steeples in that they serve as a beacon to the faithful. On the other hand, they're foreign to the Swiss landscape and aren't necessary for the practice of religion. It's a tough call.

It is funny to watch CC backpedal though.

**gibran** · December-02-09, 05:35 PM

gee it's a bitch to be an immigrant! Yes minarets are not traditional to the landscape of the Swiss, but neither was the stepples to Indians or vikings for that matter,,,we were all immigrants and one point ..we are only one race with multiple ways of expressing it..

dfunkycity · December-02-09, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by elganned

I can't begin to envision the horror and outrage that would be unleashed if they enacted a ban on church steeples.

I couldn't either. Imagine if someone actually started tearing down all those gorgeous steeples that line the landscapes of all those western culture loving middle eastern nations.

The noive!

ccbatson · December-02-09, 08:43 PM

Dang, I craft my words well....witness "Muslims WITH A RADICAL AGENDA"...no explanations are necessary...it is accurate from the get go.

**elganned** · December-02-09, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by dfunkycity

I couldn't either. Imagine if someone actually started tearing down all those gorgeous steeples that line the landscapes of all those western culture loving middle eastern nations.

The noive!

You obviously know nothing about the middle eastern nations if you think they aren't peppered with Christian church steeples all over the landscape. Not as many as minarets, but not inconsiderable.